Battery life - limited recharge cycles.

[Garlan Garner]

Looks like early adopters are going to get hit yet again since they will probably be the first to hit 300k to 500k miles.

Shell out yet another $5k to $7k.

Update will probably be free to new owners. <----------- That's the trend now. ( The longer you wait...the more free stuff you get ).

https://electrek.co/2019/04/13/tesla-model-3-longevity-claims-elon-musk/

_____________________________________​

Gali @Gfilche

· 3h


Replying to @Gfilche
avg Uber ride costs $2/mile today. cars live for ~150k miles. robotaxis could charge $1/mile and generate $150k in revenue over their lifetime.

transportation as a service flips gross margin structure of vehicles from ~20% to 50%+



Elon Musk

✔ @elonmusk

Model 3 drive unit & body is designed like a commercial truck for a million mile life. Current battery modules should last 300k to 500k miles (1500 cycles). Replacing modules (not pack) will only cost $5k to $7k.



915
11:18 AM - Apr 13, 2019

_________________________________________________________

Elon Musk makes incredible claims about Tesla Model 3 longevity, will offer battery module replacement

 

[Daniel in SD]

Will probably be free to new owners.

Yep, new owners get a brand new battery for free today.

I would say the odds of many people shelling out $5k-$7k for a new battery on a 300,000 mile car is pretty low. How many people buy new engines for a 300k mile cars? Much more likely that people would be using salvage batteries on a car that old.

 

[JeffK]

Now if in a few years I could drop $5k for a significant range and performance upgrade, I might take that.

 

[PhaseWhite]

@Garlan Garner the context of the conversation involving this tweet is about using Tesla cars as a autonomous taxi service. Feasibility of that aside, those cars would rack up a lot of miles very quickly so it would make sense to keep them on the road through battery replacements if needed rather than buying new.

Battery replacements will definitely not be included with the car. They are not like software with near 0 marginal cost.

 

[scaesare]

Looks like early adopters are going to get hit yet again since they will probably be the first to hit 300k to 500k miles.

Shell out yet another $5k to $7k.

Update will probably be free to new owners. <----------- That's the trend now. ( The longer you wait...the more free stuff you get ).

https://electrek.co/2019/04/13/tesla-model-3-longevity-claims-elon-musk/

_____________________________________​

Gali @Gfilche

· 3h


Replying to @Gfilche
avg Uber ride costs $2/mile today. cars live for ~150k miles. robotaxis could charge $1/mile and generate $150k in revenue over their lifetime.

transportation as a service flips gross margin structure of vehicles from ~20% to 50%+



Elon Musk

✔ @elonmusk

Model 3 drive unit & body is designed like a commercial truck for a million mile life. Current battery modules should last 300k to 500k miles (1500 cycles). Replacing modules (not pack) will only cost $5k to $7k.



915
11:18 AM - Apr 13, 2019

____________________________________________________

Elon Musk makes incredible claims about Tesla Model 3 longevity, will offer battery module replacement

I think you are inventing a negative that's not being asserted.

 

[Garlan Garner]

[COLOR=#bfbfbf]@Garlan Garner[/COLOR] the context of the conversation involving this tweet is about using Tesla cars as a autonomous taxi service. Feasibility of that aside, those cars would rack up a lot of miles very quickly so it would make sense to keep them on the road through battery replacements if needed rather than buying new.

Battery replacements will definitely not be included with the car. They are not like software with near 0 marginal cost.

Historically Tesla updates any new car made with the latest technology that they have. New cars won't need/require a replacement. Just like new cars today are coming with HW3 installed.

So.....I'm not sure what you are saying.

 

[TT97]

This is actually something I always wondered (not assuming free of course), but if Tesla makes a massive upgrade in battery technology (solid state or similar), would it be possible to replace the current batteries with the new technology? Being able to upgrade the car and get 400-500 mile range and ridiculously fast charging would be insane.

And maybe even convert the old batteries to a powerwall as even a degraded module will have more than enough capacity to back up a house.

 

[kbecks13]

Historically Tesla updates any new car made with the latest technology that they have. New cars won't need/require a replacement. Just like new cars today are coming with HW3 installed.

Batteries get better, but they don't become perfect. There will always be wear from charging, it's just a matter of reducing and managing it. I highly doubt future cars would be able to operate indefinitely and not require a replacement.

 

[Garlan Garner]

Batteries get better, but they don't become perfect. There will always be wear from charging, it's just a matter of reducing and managing it. I highly doubt future cars would be able to operate indefinitely and not require a replacement.

Read the article.

I don't believe Elon is saying anything about lasting forever.

 

[Zorg]

If the battery lasts 400k miles, this would be the cheapest car to own bar none. If I can add another 400k miles to the car for $7000, that would be absolutely incredible. This also might be my last car ever.

 

[RayK]

You also have to take into consideration the normal wear and tear on other mechanical parts of the car. Like the suspension and bodywork. While there are many vehicles that have lasted over 400K miles, I'd say that they are the exception, not the rule. Here in CA it's probably more likely for a car to last those 400K miles but in inclement weather places, that may not be true. My last two vehicles (2000 BMW 323i and 2002 Honda Odyssey) had 200K miles on them and both were in pretty good shape. But to have them go another 20 years and 200K miles would cost more than they were worth.

I plan to drive my Model 3 for the same 20 years and 200K mile I had the BMW and Honda. However, I'd probably be looking at a new car at that time, or maybe none at all (I'll be in my early 80s).

 

[SergeyUser]

Yep, new owners get a brand new battery for free today.

I would say the odds of many people shelling out $5k-$7k for a new battery on a 300,000 mile car is pretty low. How many people buy new engines for a 300k mile cars? Much more likely that people would be using salvage batteries on a car that old.

People are not doing it because of other maintenance costs for ICE car. Assuming you can drive another 300k for just 5k, then why not?

 

[Solor]

So is it $5k to $7k per battery pack or per module of which there is 4 in the car. Some seem to think it is the later which means it would be quadruple the price.

 

[Daniel in SD]

People are not doing it because of other maintenance costs for ICE car. Assuming you can drive another 300k for just 5k, then why not?

The service centers are not full because everyone is getting their batteries replaced, there is plenty of other maintenance.

 

[David99]

I find it ironic for Elon to talk about Model 3 battery replacement and upgrade options when Tesla pretty much refuses to offer anything like that for it's Model S that came out 6-7 years ago. No upgrades or replacements available officially. If you insist and push them they reluctantly offer you to pay $24,000 for a new battery and you have to hand in your old battery which currently has a street value of at least $16,000. That's neither reasonable in price nor does it give you a significant range improvement.

My old 85 gets 238 miles on a full charge. A brand new 100 kWh battery would give me aprox 315 miles. That's a 32% increase. Not bad, but not significant enough spending $24k on it. It's theoretical anyways as Tesla doen't even offer an upgrade from 85 to 100.

I think it's great that they are finally realizing that battery upgrades and replacements will be a thing with EVs. But if they were serious about it, they would start doing so with the cars that are old enough and out there.

Honestly, part of why I went with Tesla was the option to easily upgrade and replace the battery in the future. Making the car future proof by swapping out the battery with a newer, better one with higher capacity is an important aspect of sustainable transportation. Make the cars last, not disposable.

 

[vickh]

I find it ironic for Elon to talk about Model 3 battery replacement and upgrade options when Tesla pretty much refuses to offer anything like that for it's Model S that came out 6-7 years ago. No upgrades or replacements available officially. If you insist and push them they reluctantly offer you to pay $24,000 for a new battery and you have to hand in your old battery which currently has a street value of at least $16,000. That's neither reasonable in price nor does it give you a significant range improvement.

My old 85 gets 238 miles on a full charge. A brand new 100 kWh battery would give me aprox 315 miles. That's a 32% increase. Not bad, but not significant enough spending $24k on it. It's theoretical anyways as Tesla doen't even offer an upgrade from 85 to 100.

I think it's great that they are finally realizing that battery upgrades and replacements will be a thing with EVs. But if they were serious about it, they would start doing so with the cars that are old enough and out there.

Honestly, part of why I went with Tesla was the option to easily upgrade and replace the battery in the future. Making the car future proof by swapping out the battery with a newer, better one with higher capacity is an important aspect of sustainable transportation. Make the cars last, not disposable.

does that have to do with M3 being modular vs MS?

 

[Daniel in SD]

does that have to do with M3 being modular vs MS?

It’s the opposite. The Model S was designed to be able to swap the battery in minutes. They had a battery swap station for a while at Harris Ranch.

 

[StealthP3D]

So is it $5k to $7k per battery pack or per module of which there is 4 in the car. Some seem to think it is the later which means it would be quadruple the price.

Obviously, the $5-$7,000 is for all four modules. That would put the price at just under $100/Kwh.

 

[StealthP3D]

It’s the opposite. The Model S was designed to be able to swap the battery in minutes. They had a battery swap station for a while at Harris Ranch.

Musk said they designed the four battery modules in a Model 3 to be easily replaceable at the module level (not the pack level). This makes the weight of each part much more manageable.

 

[Daniel in SD]

Musk said they designed the four battery modules in a Model 3 to be easily replaceable at the module level (not the pack level). This makes the weight of each part much more manageable.

I believe you have to remove the pack to get to the modules.