Beginnings of a trade war between Canada and the USA. Affects on Tesla?

[Struja]

Didn't he do this by executive Order? If so, how are the "American People" responsible? Aren't executive orders a way of getting around Congress?

Also, *most* Americans understand this is quite stupid, as it pertains to Canada and is likely simply a ploy to "get a better deal" on NAFTA, even though by most metrics I've read, the US operates a trade surplus with us, so I don't really get it.

Treat your friends like enemies and your enemies like friends, is certainly an interesting foreign and trade policy.

 

[sandpiper]

Price dumping is basically foreign aid. China's ten largest steel export markets are South Korea, Vietnam, the Philippines, Thailand, Indonesia, India, Pakistan, Malaysia, Hong Kong and Myanmar. Why prevent China from providing foreign aid to these countries?

Because it's a liquid market and the actual destination is irrelevant. Dumping into any market drives down the steel price everywhere.

I think Canadian politicians need to be smarter. We need to implement some initiatives right away:

1. We need to mandate that all of our government employees stay at Trump tower while in Toronto. And we need to set a floor price on what we'll pay for rooms. Nothing less than $2500 per night. Similarly when our people travel to New York.

2. Then we need to mandate that all of our female political leadership wear nothing but Ivanka products at all times. They should open all discussions with a brief intro about these products, and include simple directions as to where they can be purchased. This would only apply to our fitter and more attractive politicians, of course. No fatties.

3. We need to set aside a prime tract of land in Muskoka, and offer to sell it to Trump Resorts for $1 for a "Mar-A-Lago North". We can cover the construction costs as part of our export development budget. And of course we need to hold any and all international conferences there at wildly inflated prices.

That seems to be the strategy that China is pursuing quite successfully. Canada can learn.

 

[Doug_G]

So with the American people declaring Canada a security risk, imposing tariffs and basically labelling Canada an enemy of the USA will possible eventual tarrifs effect Tesla’s export numbers.

Trump isn't declaring Canada a security risk. What he's doing is blatantly using a loophole in international trade agreements as a bargaining chip in NAFTA talks. It's totally sketchy and unsupportable use of the loophole, which if allowed to stand will be disastrous for worldwide trade. If allowed to stand, everyone else can and will use the same trick, to the detriment of all.

You can tell from their own words. In one one breath they say that "national security". In the very next they indicate that the tariffs will come off with a successful resolution to NAFTA. Where did the dire national security emergency go all of the sudden?

Okay, then, it's not national security at all. Resolving the NAFTA agreement with friendly countries will not relieve any threat to national security. Because there never was one.

 

[adaptabl]

You're coming to conclusions based on the actions of an irrational individual.

If you wait a few days he'll have a different opinion.

No one has any clue what goes through Trumps mind.

All we know for sure if whoever replaces him in a couple years is going to have one heck of a mess to clean up.

You are so wrong and ignorant to say that about President Trump

US trade has been a joke for decades. The US allow China to import items at with no duties and then China has duties on the same goods. That's not free trade. Someone has to fix this soon or the middle class will have no jobs.

We have a local billionaire in our area who made all his money on steel trades thru Canada from Russia and China to the US. The trade system is broken.

 

[Doug_G]

You are so wrong and ignorant to say that about President Trump

US trade has been a joke for decades. The US allow China to import items at with no duties and then China has duties on the same goods. That's not free trade. Someone has to fix this soon or the middle class will have no jobs.

We have a local billionaire in our area who made all his money on steel trades thru Canada from Russia and China to the US. The trade system is broken.

You're right that the situation with China is unfair.

The situation with Canada is NOT unfair, despite what Trump keeps ranting about. Oh, there are minor trade irritants here and there. Always will be. But the vast majority of trade between the two countries is completely fair and highly beneficial to all.

 

[McRat]

Because it's a liquid market and the actual destination is irrelevant. Dumping into any market drives down the steel price everywhere.

I think Canadian politicians need to be smarter. We need to implement some initiatives right away:

1. We need to mandate that all of our government employees stay at Trump tower while in Toronto. And we need to set a floor price on what we'll pay for rooms. Nothing less than $2500 per night. Similarly when our people travel to New York.

2. Then we need to mandate that all of our female political leadership wear nothing but Ivanka products at all times. They should open all discussions with a brief intro about these products, and include simple directions as to where they can be purchased. This would only apply to our fitter and more attractive politicians, of course. No fatties.

3. We need top set aside a prime tract of land in Muskoka, and offer to sell it to Trump Resorts for $1 for a "Mar-A-Lago North". We can cover the construction costs as part of our export development budget. And of course we need to hold any and all international conferences there at wildly inflated prices.

That seems to be the strategy that China is pursuing quite successfully. Canada can learn.

None of that would be a blip on the radar.

Donald Trump as a private citizen is losing money every year. Very odd for anybody with a government position in Washington DC. He doesn't fit in well as you might notice. It's like Chicago doesn't like honest cops in their ranks, Trump is the tvrd in the punchbowl to DC.

1) Mandate Canadian 'Free Speech' be limited like the UK. Anything that is against the national interest be squashed.
2) Take strong action against Russia, Iran, and NK. Lead, not follow.
3) Treat China as a hostile imperialist nation.

Trump was a lousy choice for President. But the other choice was somebody who already made millions from politics, and took massive campaign donations from Wall Street. She still refuses to say what she said at their 'donation conference' which was $400k a plate IIRC. She spent far, far more money on the election and lost. This is odd. We buy our political offices here, either cash, or favors.

Oddly enough, the economy has jumped since Trump has been in office, even though companies knew who financed Hillary before the election. It 'should' have tanked because Wall Street bought Hillary, but did not. The manufacturing sector and large employers saw Hillary's loss as a good thing for the future of the economy. Soros invested billions in shorting stocks when Trump won. He lost billions in the process.

Companies are that moving their operations more and more off-shore hate Trump as do US based international investment bankers. They are spending big to get rid of him, with no holds barred. Harrassing his family, lying about what he is doing, buying negative media, either by advertising buck, partial buy-ins, or outright purchases.'

Remember when Trump cancelled the EV rebates in the USA, and eliminated EPA emissions rules? That was in the news. It never actually happened. You can spin it to say, he lowered the rate of gain in CAFE levels which was negotiated during the last administration, but that means CAFE requirements are still climbing.

 

[djplong]

Weird huh? A political office holder who knows what his job is.

But you can't blame it on Canadian Samantha Bee. She called his daughter a C,NT after the POTUS started to renegotiate backroom trade deals. So it wasn't paybacks.

I respectfully disagree. Canada, Mexico and Europe are NOT security risks.

Likewise, they have NOT given a half billion dollar bailout to our President's project in Jakarta, nor did they issue 13 design patents for the President's daughter's products - both of which China did before the President then went all-in on rescuing Chinese phone handset manufacturer ZTE.

 

[sandpiper]

None of that would be a blip on the radar.

Donald Trump as a private citizen is losing money every year. Very odd for anybody with a government position in Washington DC. He doesn't fit in well as you might notice. It's like Chicago doesn't like honest cops in their ranks, Trump is the tvrd in the punchbowl to DC.

1) Mandate Canadian 'Free Speech' be limited like the UK. Anything that is against the national interest be squashed.
2) Take strong action against Russia, Iran, and NK. Lead, not follow.
3) Treat China as a hostile imperialist nation.

Trump was a lousy choice for President. But the other choice was somebody who already made millions from politics, and took massive campaign donations from Wall Street. She still refuses to say what she said at their 'donation conference' which was $400k a plate IIRC. She spent far, far more money on the election and lost. This is odd. We buy our political offices here, either cash, or favors.

Oddly enough, the economy has jumped since Trump has been in office, even though companies knew who financed Hillary before the election. It 'should' have tanked because Wall Street bought Hillary, but did not. The manufacturing sector and large employers saw Hillary's loss as a good thing for the future of the economy. Soros invested billions in shorting stocks when Trump won. He lost billions in the process.

Companies are that moving their operations more and more off-shore hate Trump as do US based international investment bankers. They are spending big to get rid of him, with no holds barred. Harrassing his family, lying about what he is doing, buying negative media, either by advertising buck, partial buy-ins, or outright purchases.'

Remember when Trump cancelled the EV rebates in the USA, and eliminated EPA emissions rules? That was in the news. It never actually happened. You can spin it to say, he lowered the rate of gain in CAFE levels which was negotiated during the last administration, but that means CAFE requirements are still climbing.

It's not odd that the economy jumped. First, the economy has been on the mend in the last several years - recovering from 2008. Second, the tax cut is a massive economic stimulus package. It's like taking out a giant loan and then blowing it all on a big party. Everybody's happy until the hangover and until the payments have to be made. You don't do stimulus in a strong economy; all that does is fuel inflation and bring the good times to a quicker end. Alas, Trump doesn't seem to think that far ahead. It will not end well.

He has done a few good things, I'll concede. Somebody needs to play hardball with China. But.. it seems that they've purchased him, and now that's over. The second thing is that he's made it practical for US companies to repatriate profits. I chalk that up to a "broken clock being right twice a day" and not due to any well considered plan.

Hillary was a bad candidate, I'll also concede. But what's happening now is just beyond comprehension.

 

[sandpiper]

I respectfully disagree. Canada, Mexico and Europe are NOT security risks.

Likewise, they have NOT given a half billion dollar bailout to our President's project in Jakarta, nor did they issue 13 design patents for the President's daughter's products - both of which China did before the President then went all-in on rescuing Chinese phone handset manufacturer ZTE.

But we should! WE should figure out how we can funnel some $ to Donny's back pocket, or to Ivanka's. We've learned the game. Let's play!

 

[McRat]

I respectfully disagree. Canada, Mexico and Europe are NOT security risks.

Likewise, they have NOT given a half billion dollar bailout to our President's project in Jakarta, nor did they issue 13 design patents for the President's daughter's products - both of which China did before the President then went all-in on rescuing Chinese phone handset manufacturer ZTE.

If Canada/EU/Mexico are run out of business, the US is trapped if our domestic production is gone. That's the real threat. Few Americans believe Canada will invade us, Mexico already has, and the EU has a very 'dynamic' and non-homogenous foreign policy when it comes to defense materials, so they might not be reliable in 10 years if they are still producing. I do no weapons work or exports, but I have to have a DDTC/ITAR registration which was mainly pushed through by the EU.

China has been sending 'spy' USB memory sticks and routers into the US for over a decade. This greatly accelerated their production of modern weapons. Then their direct thefts included the W80 'dial-a-blast' warhead and the F-22 design information.

 

[McRat]

But we should! WE should figure out how we can funnel some $ to Donny's back pocket, or to Ivanka's. We've learned the game. Let's play!

Folks claim Donny takes bribes. It is assumed since he's in DC. I don't buy it. He's not politically savvy enough to figure out how to accept bribes and spin it as something good for the poor and downtrodden. That takes a Clinton, Feinstein, Pelosi, or Watters.

 

[adaptabl]

You're right that the situation with China is unfair.

The situation with Canada is NOT unfair, despite what Trump keeps ranting about. Oh, there are minor trade irritants here and there. Always will be. But the vast majority of trade between the two countries is completely fair and highly beneficial to all.

I do think that we in Canada do a poor job in tracking where materials are sourced from. I believe there is steel from China that gets sent to the US as Canadian steel.

 

[sandpiper]

Folks claim Donny takes bribes. It is assumed since he's in DC. I don't buy it. He's not politically savvy enough to figure out how to accept bribes and spin it as something good for the poor and downtrodden. That takes a Clinton, Feinstein, Pelosi, or Watters.

Are you kidding? With his various international holdings, there a millions ways to funnel money - either directly, or via actions that indirectly increase the value of his assets. What you have in the US - where a sitting president - owns and controls private businesses in foreign countries is a mind blowing conflict of interest. The "my sons won't tell me what's happening" argument is beyond insane. It's third world tin-pot dictator stuff.

 

[McRat]

Are you kidding? With his various international holdings, there a millions ways to funnel money - either directly, or via actions that indirectly increase the value of his assets. What you have in the US - where a sitting president - owns and controls private businesses in foreign countries is a mind blowing conflict of interest. The "my sons won't tell me what's happening" argument is beyond insane. It's third world tin-pot dictator stuff.

That is assumed. Oddly enough with >10,000 'journalists' looking for flaws in the President, nobody has proven he has taken bribes, or altered policies to benefit himself. It's extremely common in our government, but so far the best anyone has come up with is Russia bought Trump so that Trump could screw with Russia on foreign policy and trade. I don't think Putin got his money worth.

I think you are much safer just calling his kids "c*nts", because at least there could be proof that some of his kids have one.

I'm still struggling with why our President is a racist White Supremacist though. There has never been even the smallest hint of this. We've had some serious racists in the White House and Congress. FDR probably would have reinstituted slavery if his wife didn't stop him.

But you must give kudos to Canada. As of 2018, they finally have officially (Trudeau) acknowledged there is at least one Canadian that is racist. This was not even known in 1982 when they finally agreed Native Canadians were probably humans.

 

[sandpiper]

That is assumed. Oddly enough with >10,000 'journalists' looking for flaws in the President, nobody has proven he has taken bribes, or altered policies to benefit himself. It's extremely common in our government, but so far the best anyone has come up with is Russia bought Trump so that Trump could screw with Russia on foreign policy and trade. I don't think Putin got his money worth.

I think you are much safer just calling his kids "c*nts", because at least there could be proof that some of his kids have one.

I'm still struggling with why our President is a racist White Supremacist though. There has never been even the smallest hint of this. We've had some serious racists in the White House and Congress. FDR probably would have reinstituted slavery if his wife didn't stop him.

But you must give kudos to Canada. As of 2018, they finally have officially (Trudeau) acknowledged there is at least one Canadian that is racist.

Once again, are you kidding? Surely you can't be so naive as to not understand that foreign governments can and will push favorable financial dealings with Trump organizations. Is it a bribe if one of Donny's holdings gets a nice loan from some foreign bank on very good terms? Who's going to go into the foreign bank's records to determine that it was directed or backed by the foreign government?

That is different than all prior presidents and most other officials, who don't have the number of channels available. In those cases bribes have to be more overt.

The whole ZTE thing smells really bad to me. Trump intervened so directly, and I'm certain that there was something in it for him. But we'll likely never find out what.

 

[McRat]

Once again, are you kidding? Surely you can't be so naive as to not understand that foreign governments can and will push favorable financial dealings with Trump organizations. Is it a bribe if one of Donny's holdings gets a nice loan from some foreign bank on very good terms? Who's going to go into the foreign bank's records to determine that it was directed or backed by the foreign government?

That is different than all prior presidents and most other officials, who don't have the number of channels available. In those cases bribes have to be more overt.

The whole ZTE thing smells really bad to me. Trump intervened so directly, and I'm certain that there was something in it for him. But we'll likely never find out what.

You just have to assume everything you are told by the purchased press is true. That is documented, that newspapers, TV news, and Internet news is being purchased by rich anti-conservative fanatics for huge bucks. The problem is they are writing their own news or making it themselves via their entertainment divisions. Saves on reporters I guess.

Again, with thousands of folks investigating and hundreds of million of dollars spent, something should pop up, especially since the White House staff and subordinates are from the prior administration and virulently anti-Trump. No other President in US history was spied on more than our current President. It started before the election and continues to today. Even the FBI is crooked + anti-Trump and using advanced tech to spy on him, his family, and his associates.

This trade policy concerning strategic metals is no different. The articles always ignore the Chinese issue, that China will stop Canadian production too, not just US production, if things don't change. I guess they just don't do research when writing articles. "Trump fears Canadian Military Attacks!!!" sounds so much better to Canadians and lunatic fringe Americans, than "US moves to bolster domestic strategic metal production". The second one just doesn't sing.

 

[sandpiper]

You just have to assume everything you are told by the purchased press is true. That is documented, that newspapers, TV news, and Internet news is being purchased by rich anti-conservative fanatics for huge bucks. The problem is they are writing their own news or making it themselves via their entertainment divisions. Saves on reporters I guess.

Again, with thousands of folks investigating and hundreds of million of dollars spent, something should pop up, especially since the White House staff and subordinates are from the prior administration and virulently anti-Trump. No other President in US history was spied on more than our current President. It started before the election and continues to today. Even the FBI is crooked + anti-Trump and using advanced tech to spy on him, his family, and his associates.

This trade policy concerning strategic metals is no different. The articles always ignore the Chinese issue, that China will stop Canadian production too, not just US production, if things don't change. I guess they just don't do research when writing articles. "Trump fears Canadian Military Attacks!!!" sounds so much better to Canadians and lunatic fringe Americans, than "US moves to bolster domestic strategic metal production". The second one just doesn't sing.

Straw man alert. I've repeatedly stated that China is an issue. And that they need to be dealt with aggressively. As I stated the US should be building a consensus with all of the players being damaged - Can, Mex, EU and others to bring China into line. These tariffs are either pointless or counterproductive if that's the goal.

Respect your first two paragraphs... nothing to say. You go right ahead and hang on to your faith that Trump is clean. He comes from a notoriously corrupt industry, has shown himself to be utterly lacking in any moral compass, and makes no pretense that he's not a self-serving, egocentric, sociopathic nutbar. Between that, the prodigious opportunity for foreign interests to benefit him and his family, and the number of things that have already been reported, and I'm quite at peace that he's the most corrupt politician to ever occupy the oval office. But hey... that's just my opinion.

 

[McRat]

Straw man alert. I've repeatedly stated that China is an issue. And that they need to be dealt with aggressively. As I stated the US should be building a consensus with all of the players being damaged - Can, Mex, EU and others to bring China into line. These tariffs are either pointless or counterproductive if that's the goal.

Respect your first two paragraphs... nothing to say. You go right ahead and hang on to your faith that Trump is clean. He comes from a notoriously corrupt industry, has shown himself to be utterly lacking in any moral compass, and makes no pretense that he's not a self-serving, egocentric, sociopathic nutbar. Between that, the prodigious opportunity for foreign interests to benefit him and his family, and the number of things that have already been reported, and I'm quite at peace that he's the most corrupt politician to ever occupy the oval office. But hey... that's just my opinion.

You did bring China in line. You signed the Paris Accord so China could produce as much coal power as they like (1/3 of fuel CO2 now is Chinese) which is the critical component of aluminum.

Your idea that everybody with money is automatically corrupt might be true in Canada. In the US, it's not.

You dwell on pure gossip with no facts. There's tons of that. It's been paid for. We are drowning in it here. 75% of TV has political attacks in it now. We hired foreigners to slander our President. And we have rich citizens like Chelsea Clinton ($15m in 2014) going to foreign nations bad-mouthing the US for money.

FDR probably won the Modern Corrupt President award. There is not close 2nd place. So far Trump hasn't put Americans in concentration camps and stole their assets.

People on the left do not like his policies. Smaller government, personal accountability, state rights, secure borders, peace through superior firepower, etc. But those talking points are hard to weaponize, so they just make up stuff. A CNN host even claimed he was a child molester.

 

[sandpiper]

You did bring China in line. You signed the Paris Accord so China could produce as much coal power as they like (1/3 of fuel CO2 now is Chinese) which is the critical component of aluminum.

Your idea that everybody with money is automatically corrupt might be true in Canada. In the US, it's not.

You dwell on pure gossip with no facts. There's tons of that. It's been paid for. We are drowning in it here. 75% of TV has political attacks in it now. We hired foreigners to slander our President. And we have rich citizens like Chelsea Clinton ($15m in 2014) going to foreign nations bad-mouthing the US for money.

FDR probably won the Modern Corrupt President award. There is not close 2nd place. So far Trump hasn't put Americans in concentration camps and stole their assets.

People on the left do not like his policies. Smaller government, personal accountability, state rights, secure borders, peace through superior firepower, etc. But those talking points are hard to weaponize, so they just make up stuff. A CNN host even claimed he was a child molester.

Okay... you've dropped off the deep end. I think you and Rosanne should get together to commiserate.

 

[S'toon]

It's not odd that the economy jumped. First, the economy has been on the mend in the last several years - recovering from 2008. Second, the tax cut is a massive economic stimulus package. It's like taking out a giant loan and then blowing it all on a big party. Everybody's happy until the hangover and until the payments have to be made. You don't do stimulus in a strong economy; all that does is fuel inflation and bring the good times to a quicker end. Alas, Trump doesn't seem to think that far ahead. It will not end well.

He has done a few good things, I'll concede. Somebody needs to play hardball with China. But.. it seems that they've purchased him, and now that's over. The second thing is that he's made it practical for US companies to repatriate profits. I chalk that up to a "broken clock being right twice a day" and not due to any well considered plan.

Hillary was a bad candidate, I'll also concede. But what's happening now is just beyond comprehension.

A little correction.

Tax cuts are not a fiscal stimulus. There hasn't been a tax cut in the history of the world that has stimulated any economy. What happened this time is the same thing that happens every time there's a tax cut. Corporate executives got a bonus, and corporations have bought up their own shares, boosting their stock prices. Stimulus to the economy? 0. The talking point that corporations use tax cuts to create jobs is a myth that is told to sell tax cuts to gullible people who don't pay attention to what really happens.

You are correct though that the economy right now is just a straight line from the Obama era. Currently the stock market is in a bubble territory, and there are signs that it'll collapse soon. The same indications that were there before the 2001 crash and the 2007-8 crash.

Watch in this video Trump economic advisor Gary Cohn is shocked when a room full of CEOs tell him that they won't reinvest in their companies when they get tax breaks.