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Big Brake Kit the China option?

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I can buy a set of the Martian Wheels for $2,000 shipped. Unless I'm reading the thread wrong, aren't you all paying $1,500 for a set?

I priced out Martian wheels. For the same wheels as I ordered it would have been 2400+shipping and tax. Call it 2500 just for arguments sake.

If I specs the wheel finish the same as the Martian wheels they were 920 +350 shipped.

Thats about 50%. I paid a little more to have brushed finish and cnc aluminum center caps.

Make sense?
 
I priced out Martian wheels. For the same wheels as I ordered it would have been 2400+shipping and tax. Call it 2500 just for arguments sake.

If I specs the wheel finish the same as the Martian wheels they were 920 +350 shipped.

Thats about 50%. I paid a little more to have brushed finish and cnc aluminum center caps.

Make sense?

I'll never understand why the hate is so prevalent on this forum. People are trying to go out and do stuff to find new mods and options for everyone, and people that haven't done a freaking thing for anyone, sit around and tell them it's a horrible idea, it can't be done, it shouldn't be done yada yada. Never once seen this on any of the other performance car forums I'm on. Usually everyone is like try it, make it work, and we'll check it out later after we see some results.

The other thing is that those martian wheels aren't the best looking ones around imho. If you look at this same design (and possibly even from the same manufacturer) you can see the design I have is actually for sale at $600 each, compared to $352 of what they cost me, shipped.

Capture.PNG
 
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Most people who are spending 50K on a car aren't going to ruin it by putting no name knockoffs on their car. Real track guys are not going to risk their live and car on no name brakes. Pretenders don't want to use it because they will be laughing stock showing up with no name brakes. Also maybe some are ethnical enough to not use knockoffs?
 
I'll never understand why the hate is so prevalent on this forum. People are trying to go out and do stuff to find new mods and options for everyone, and people that haven't done a freaking thing for anyone, sit around and tell them it's a horrible idea, it can't be done, it shouldn't be done yada yada. Never once seen this on any of the other performance car forums I'm on. Usually everyone is like try it, make it work, and we'll check it out later after we see some results.

The other thing is that those martian wheels aren't the best looking ones around imho. If you look at this same design (and possibly even from the same manufacturer) you can see the design I have is actually for sale at $600 each, compared to $352 of what they cost me, shipped.
The hate would be to push people to do something dangerously stupid so they can be guinea pigs. There are way more people reading than posting and somebody needs to tell the truth - aftermarket parts are already dangerous, but no name knockoff brake kits and wheels on a high torque car is completely dumb.

And while those few who determined to do dumb stuff are anyway going do it, it can save other 100 people from following them just because they didn't think about it. And that's the whole point. No hate. Just a community support.

It doesn't matter how much those wheels, brakes and ECU mods cost. Bullets quite cheap and it's not a good reason to eat them.

P.S. I know you won't take word "dumb" to the heart, since you added me to ignore list already.
 
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I'll never understand why the hate is so prevalent on this forum. People are trying to go out and do stuff to find new mods and options for everyone, and people that haven't done a freaking thing for anyone, sit around and tell them it's a horrible idea, it can't be done, it shouldn't be done yada yada. Never once seen this on any of the other performance car forums I'm on. Usually everyone is like try it, make it work, and we'll check it out later after we see some results.

The other thing is that those martian wheels aren't the best looking ones around imho. If you look at this same design (and possibly even from the same manufacturer) you can see the design I have is actually for sale at $600 each, compared to $352 of what they cost me, shipped.

I'm not hating on you. I told you twice that I wish you the best of luck with the wheels. I provided several legitimate reasons why I thought buying from Titan7 or Martian was a better option for most people. I'm just sharing my two cents, as you have shared yours.

That being said, I've done a lot for this community and shared a lot of my experiences. Back when there were very few options I built a Front BBK using the Model S Calipers. I built Camber and Toe arms. Ultimately, I went with parts from MPP for the same reasons I would buy wheels from Titan7. I'm pioneering tracking EV's over here on the East Coast where most people still think they're slow, stupid, and will overheat. I'm currently working with MPP on new solutions for track enthusiasts.

Ultimately, I agree the Martian wheels are not the best looking design. If people want to buy wheels from Jova then go for it, just understand the potential risk. That being said, I can't honestly support buying brakes from them due to the inherit danger they pose if they're constructed wrong. You have no way of knowing the internals of their caliper.

Finally, don't take the feedback on the forums so personally, all car forums are like this lol.
 
I'll never understand why the hate is so prevalent on this forum. People are trying to go out and do stuff to find new mods and options for everyone, and people that haven't done a freaking thing for anyone, sit around and tell them it's a horrible idea, it can't be done, it shouldn't be done yada yada. Never once seen this on any of the other performance car forums I'm on. Usually everyone is like try it, make it work, and we'll check it out later after we see some results.

The other thing is that those martian wheels aren't the best looking ones around imho. If you look at this same design (and possibly even from the same manufacturer) you can see the design I have is actually for sale at $600 each, compared to $352 of what they cost me, shipped.

View attachment 582280
The original post specifically asked for people's opinions and people gave them honestly. It's not hate, it's looking out for their safety.

Being manufactured in China is 100% fine if done correctly (look at every single Apple product, which many people consider "high-end"). You just need the proper logistics, operations, and quality control in place to make sure it gets done correctly. In this case, it's more the fact that China has much looser laws on QA and thousands of small, copy-cat businesses making generic parts to sell overseas without any legal accountability when those cheap parts fail.

Don't try to save a few bucks on something that could potentially have peoples lives in its hands.
 
I'll never understand why the hate is so prevalent on this forum. People are trying to go out and do stuff to find new mods and options for everyone, and people that haven't done a freaking thing for anyone, sit around and tell them it's a horrible idea, it can't be done, it shouldn't be done yada yada. Never once seen this on any of the other performance car forums I'm on. Usually everyone is like try it, make it work, and we'll check it out later after we see some results.
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The other thing is that those martian wheels aren't the best looking ones around imho. If you look at this same design (and possibly even from the same manufacturer) you can see the design I have is actually for sale at $600 each, compared to $352 of what they cost me, shipped.

View attachment 582280

For brakes I guess I can understand more resistance, but even brembo has a factory in china. But ok, fair enough I get it to a point.

Wheels on the other hand completely cracks me up, unless its a "made in usa" or some japanese or european (manufactured in eastern europe) ultra expensive wheel, it 100% is manufactured in china, and no the brand name is not over there checking the quality constantly. But even then they probably bough the billet black from china. People seem to think they are getting value from a retailer, who only did what other people did. Got on alibaba, found a manufacturer, and negotiated a deal.

If I were to go back to the manufacturer, pick some designs in a handful of sizes, do up a website I would literally have the exact same thing and i'd charge say 500 a wheel, i'd make 250 off each wheel and the customer would have my name on it (that the factory put on for me) It would be my name brand so the "middle man would be checking the quality".....
 
For brakes I guess I can understand more resistance, but even brembo has a factory in china. But ok, fair enough I get it to a point.

Wheels on the other hand completely cracks me up, unless its a "made in usa" or some japanese or european (manufactured in eastern europe) ultra expensive wheel, it 100% is manufactured in china, and no the brand name is not over there checking the quality constantly. But even then they probably bough the billet black from china. People seem to think they are getting value from a retailer, who only did what other people did. Got on alibaba, found a manufacturer, and negotiated a deal.

If I were to go back to the manufacturer, pick some designs in a handful of sizes, do up a website I would literally have the exact same thing and i'd charge say 500 a wheel, i'd make 250 off each wheel and the customer would have my name on it (that the factory put on for me) It would be my name brand so the "middle man would be checking the quality".....
It cracks you up, because you have no idea what you're talking about. Just do it, open website, make it popular and blind sell products for 33% margin while they can cause major road accidents. Let us know if your liability insurance would be covered by profits, afterwards.

Btw, I don't advocate that US resellers of CN products any better. If they don't have enough history behind a brand, it's exactly same thing to me. I don't care if my family will be able to jail them, I just literally don't want to die myself.
 
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It cracks you up, because you have no idea what you're talking about. Just do it, open website, make it popular and blind sell products for 33% margin while they can cause major road accidents. Let us know if your liability insurance would be covered by profits, afterwards.

Btw, I don't advocate that US resellers of CN products any better. If they don't have enough history behind a brand, it's exactly same thing to me. I don't care if my family will be able to jail them, I just literally don't want to die myself.

How do you know any of these retailers is not blind selling the wheels? Do you think they are all spending loads of time in china making sure the manufacturer is doing it right, and do they even know how to test if they are?

I appreciate the info and I get where you are coming from. Like I said, I work with a lot of Chinese that own factories in China, and they agree with you to a point, though I think it is fair to say it has generally improved and that it is continually improving.

Like i said, 90% of the wheels in the world are made by 8 manufacturers. There are a whole lot more than 8 retailer designers for wheels, so there is a lot of overlap. So I don't think the situation is quite as dire as you do.
 
It's not difficult to do wheels. They buy forgings precut and just use full size 20 years old CNC lathe and mill. Doesn't matter if most wheels made in few places - you need a very small shop of few guys to make them.

They start with copying design of others and then getting creative and competing for cost and weight. This ends up in almost no QC, cheapest blocks of unknown aluminum alloy without any test of material or forging class or quality. Since they are small, they can't buy from manufacturer directly, so they buy from agents who sell and resell everything and even they don't know what they sell. Suppliers of blocks also cheating them as well.

They will do few dimensions check on 1 wheel from the series and visual check, but most don't have anything more than simpler ruler let alone coordinate dimension scanner. They change design from the copy without even basic knowledge of mechanical stress and certainly without any stress simulation or any actual test. And they don't have engineering seniority to even eye ball it right.

Here is the catch - if this is high quality factory - they are big and NOT going to do small run production ever. And small shops not going to do anything except adjusting some numbers in parametric design and send to CNC. And you're dealing with small shops - one production supervisor, one part time junior guy who learned basics of Pro-E, one girl sales rep who can type and read basic english and 2 techs managing machines plus a warehouse operator. 50% margin, 30% profit. One owner who buys new apartment every 2 years and running few of different business like that.

There is another chance - dying mid size poor quality factory that can't find local buyers anymore and desperate to do direct sales for consumers in the west.

But you not going to know it. They can send you photos or address of somebody else factory. They can put temporary logo on somebody else factory when you visit them. Most of their sales reps are free agents who are paid commission only so doesn't matter how many of them, they sell for dozens of companies.

If eventually somebody going to die in the west due to their product they won't even know about it. No remorse. It was you who hit a pothole and died, not them.

Salaries of actual engineers and managers who can do decent production are same in China now as in US. And operators cost 5$/hour. And most business owners incredibly greedy and don't work for small profit margin. So if you get really good cost on custom product that can kill you - that's how you know it's stupid to do it.

P.S. If local guys have a brand for many years and very active in marketing that means they sold decent quantity and nobody yet died. I can't vouch for Signature Wheels. I believe it's medium danger - price allows decent product, manufacturing in Taiwan, quite long time on a market, active in marketing, used in actual race teams, weight is not incredibly low, hub doesn't look like a feather. This in my mind is a 100 times lower risk, while still 10 times worse than OEM or top brand.
 
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It's not difficult to do wheels. They buy forgings precut and just use full size 20 years old CNC lathe and mill. Doesn't matter if most wheels made in few places - you need a very small shop of few guys to make them.

They start with copying design of others and then getting creative and competing for cost and weight. This ends up in almost no QC, cheapest blocks of unknown aluminum alloy without any test of material or forging class or quality. Since they are small, they can't buy from manufacturer directly, so they buy from agents who sell and resell everything and even they don't know what they sell. Suppliers of blocks also cheating them as well.

They will do few dimensions check on 1 wheel from the series and visual check, but most don't have anything more than simpler ruler let alone coordinate dimension scanner. They change design from the copy without even basic knowledge of mechanical stress and certainly without any stress simulation or any actual test. And they don't have engineering seniority to even eye ball it right.

Here is the catch - if this is high quality factory - they are big and NOT going to do small run production ever. And small shops not going to do anything except adjusting some numbers in parametric design and send to CNC. And you're dealing with small shops - one production supervisor, one part time junior guy who learned basics of Pro-E, one girl sales rep who can type and read basic english and 2 techs managing machines plus a warehouse operator. 50% margin, 30% profit. One owner who buys new apartment every 2 years and running few of different business like that.

There is another chance - dying mid size poor quality factory that can't find local buyers anymore and desperate to do direct sales for consumers in the west.

But you not going to know it. They can send you photos or address of somebody else factory. They can put temporary logo on somebody else factory when you visit them. Most of their sales reps are free agents who are paid commission only so doesn't matter how many of them, they sell for dozens of companies.

If eventually somebody going to die in the west due to their product they won't even know about it. No remorse. It was you who hit a pothole and died, not them.

Salaries of actual engineers and managers who can do decent production are same in China now as in US. And operators cost 5$/hour. And most business owners incredibly greedy and don't work for small profit margin. So if you get really good cost on custom product that can kill you - that's how you know it's stupid to do it.

P.S. If local guys have a brand for many years and very active in marketing that means they sold decent quantity and nobody yet died. I can't vouch for Signature Wheels. I believe it's medium danger - price allows decent product, manufacturing in Taiwan, quite long time on a market, active in marketing, used in actual race teams, weight is not incredibly low, hub doesn't look like a feather. This in my mind is a 100 times lower risk, while still 10 times worse than OEM or top brand.


here is a post i just read about martian wheels -

sirkdub, Yesterday at 11:22 PM
NewDid anyone ordered the Martian Wheels MW03 in 19x9.5" +45 offset for their Model Y? Site specs are 19.5 lbs but I weighed them at 23 lbs. This is 3.5 lbs and much more than I was expecting. So strange and disappointed as I bought them for the weight saving performance.
 
here is a post i just read about martian wheels -

sirkdub, Yesterday at 11:22 PM
NewDid anyone ordered the Martian Wheels MW03 in 19x9.5" +45 offset for their Model Y? Site specs are 19.5 lbs but I weighed them at 23 lbs. This is 3.5 lbs and much more than I was expecting. So strange and disappointed as I bought them for the weight saving performance.
A sign that there is somebody who doesn't want to be responsible for other people crashing.
 
here is a post i just read about martian wheels -

sirkdub, Yesterday at 11:22 PM
NewDid anyone ordered the Martian Wheels MW03 in 19x9.5" +45 offset for their Model Y? Site specs are 19.5 lbs but I weighed them at 23 lbs. This is 3.5 lbs and much more than I was expecting. So strange and disappointed as I bought them for the weight saving performance.

1 pound variation is reasonable, but over 3 pounds on a single wheel? eeek. Good thing he bought them from Martian since the middlemen maintain all of the checks and balances with Q&A and production from the manufacturer.
 
You mean like tesla does with their $25 cast wheels they buy from China and slap them on the cars? Someone should run that up the chain so they can be aware that they need to find a more expensive option.
This thread is turning into a bunch of straw man arguments, so it's not really worth further effort following this post since it seems you're just being deliberately obtuse at this point.

You're free to spend your money on whatever you want, just don't get upset when people tell you it's a bad idea after you ask them for their thoughts and they don't give you the answer you wanted to hear.

Before I go, I'd just like to point out that if your Model 3 was built in the US:
A) Tesla OEM wheels are flow formed, not cast.
B) They're made in Fremont, California.
 
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This thread is turning into a bunch of straw man arguments, so it's not really worth further effort following this post since it seems you're just being deliberately obtuse at this point.

You're free to spend your money on whatever you want, just don't get upset when people tell you it's a bad idea after you ask them for their thoughts and they don't give you the answer you wanted to hear.

Before I go, I'd just like to point out that if your Model 3 was built in the US:
A) Tesla OEM wheels are flow formed, not cast.
B) They're made in Fremont, California.

actually Mexico since the casting says so on the back of the wheel.
 
It's not difficult to do wheels. They buy forgings precut and just use full size 20 years old CNC lathe and mill. Doesn't matter if most wheels made in few places - you need a very small shop of few guys to make them.

They start with copying design of others and then getting creative and competing for cost and weight. This ends up in almost no QC, cheapest blocks of unknown aluminum alloy without any test of material or forging class or quality. Since they are small, they can't buy from manufacturer directly, so they buy from agents who sell and resell everything and even they don't know what they sell. Suppliers of blocks also cheating them as well.

They will do few dimensions check on 1 wheel from the series and visual check, but most don't have anything more than simpler ruler let alone coordinate dimension scanner. They change design from the copy without even basic knowledge of mechanical stress and certainly without any stress simulation or any actual test. And they don't have engineering seniority to even eye ball it right.

Here is the catch - if this is high quality factory - they are big and NOT going to do small run production ever. And small shops not going to do anything except adjusting some numbers in parametric design and send to CNC. And you're dealing with small shops - one production supervisor, one part time junior guy who learned basics of Pro-E, one girl sales rep who can type and read basic english and 2 techs managing machines plus a warehouse operator. 50% margin, 30% profit. One owner who buys new apartment every 2 years and running few of different business like that.

There is another chance - dying mid size poor quality factory that can't find local buyers anymore and desperate to do direct sales for consumers in the west.

But you not going to know it. They can send you photos or address of somebody else factory. They can put temporary logo on somebody else factory when you visit them. Most of their sales reps are free agents who are paid commission only so doesn't matter how many of them, they sell for dozens of companies.

If eventually somebody going to die in the west due to their product they won't even know about it. No remorse. It was you who hit a pothole and died, not them.

Salaries of actual engineers and managers who can do decent production are same in China now as in US. And operators cost 5$/hour. And most business owners incredibly greedy and don't work for small profit margin. So if you get really good cost on custom product that can kill you - that's how you know it's stupid to do it.

P.S. If local guys have a brand for many years and very active in marketing that means they sold decent quantity and nobody yet died. I can't vouch for Signature Wheels. I believe it's medium danger - price allows decent product, manufacturing in Taiwan, quite long time on a market, active in marketing, used in actual race teams, weight is not incredibly low, hub doesn't look like a feather. This in my mind is a 100 times lower risk, while still 10 times worse than OEM or top brand.

to me if ford racing team is using those wheels On their cars I suspect they have done all the research on the wheels and not risk a 100k+ car being cheap on a coupe of thousand. I mean isn’t that why BBS is popular? Used by major car companies and in racing? Also in searching I have yet to see a bent or broken @SignatureWheel pic or thread.

Having a US storefront, published and verified weights, median forged price, complete visibility of their manufacturing, US reps, and no issues that I can find on the web or pictures speaks a lot. They tick a lot of boxes that give confidence in running their product.
 
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