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Bitcoin, Cryptocurrency and Blockchain Discussion Thread
- Thread starter Crowded Mind
- Start date
Risk reward with Tesla long term is probably better for most people. I never give advice but speculative invests should be a fairly small part of a portfolio. I built my TSLA position before anything else. Long term I think TSLA offers a comparable % gain with lower risk. Plus you are helping to save the world.
Apparently the battery needs are much smaller than we would think. A few days worth of power.
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Then go buy hydrogen gas or something that actually has a use.
What are these interest rates based on? What are people borrowing crypto to fund that affords rhat kind of return for the lender? How is this not some Ponzi scheme
Anything related to Bitcoin in particular can’t help but add uncertainty. I am not a financial genius but not an idiot (quite) either.
Tesla seemed to clearly lie when seeming to connect BUYING Bitcoin is some way with accepting it for payment. If you want to take it for payment then fine but that is in no way connected with investing in Bitcoin IMO.
I understand companies hedge currency but Bitcoin is hardly a currency in the sense that it has zero backing.
Buying Bitcoin is no different that purchasing any asset. There should be due diligence. I don’t see any. Might as well have bought GME as I see it.
Buying Bitcoin is a great way to drop the stock price it seems so when Bitcoin is sold it should bounce back up. Dogecoin might have been better in that respect.
The main revenue source is using those coins for staking which I’m not fully understanding yet but basically helps with transaction processing and security. Sorta like mining.
I was doing some research and saw ads offering up to 20% return related to POS or proof of stake. What is that faint sound, of yeah it is an alarm bell. What a great ponzi scheme it would seem. Lock up your bitcoins (no risk of redemption) in return for a preposterous return, wow, perfect.
It is a great idea to follow Dave Lee's exploration of Bitcoin. In particular the story of how Hoskinson has been involved in 3 different digital currencies (or more) so far. The requirements just keep expanding and he is a programmer and keeps moving with them. His views on government are dangerously simplistic IMO. He refers to Bitcoin as the gateway drug. Dave is doing us all a service by revealing the personalities behind the ever evolving and drifting technology.
Are there a limited number of Bitcoins? Seems to me this is convenient consensus until the next algorithm. There are obviously multitudes of digital currencies and more every day. Hoskinson says when EM speaks of dogecoin that he is secretly talking about bitcoin (1:26:32). Wow, this is quite a leap.
People eviscerated me in the daily discussion thread for saying I sold all my TSLA to buy bitcoin at <$17k late last year. It looks like I made the right choice. TSLA is slowly bleeding out and will probably continue that way for some months now with no major catalysts in the near-term.
I look forward to going back to TSLA when it's down in the $500 - $600 range while bitcoin is in the $200,000 - $800,000 range.
LOL. I still can't believe people here thought TSLA would go to $5,000 / share this year. Just LOL.
I look forward to going back to TSLA when it's down in the $500 - $600 range while bitcoin is in the $200,000 - $800,000 range.
LOL. I still can't believe people here thought TSLA would go to $5,000 / share this year. Just LOL.
pz1975
Active Member
What a valuable contributor you are to this forum.
IMO Bitcoin currently has value and utility, even though the way it was created is not efficient and IMO has low value and utility.
Value mostly stems from the consensus that it has value.
But "proof pf work:" is not he only theoretical way on creating value or digitizing value.
The options are:-
If we are doing UBI a Cryptocoin seems like a great way to do it, it can also reward useful activities, like voting, attending school, participating in medical trials, volunteering etc.
I say proof if human is definitive because it can be established by;-
So my conclusion is if humans decide we need a UBI, we don't necessarily need to rely on governments to create that system. What we need is a coin we can issue that has a sustainable consensus value
Value mostly stems from the consensus that it has value.
But "proof pf work:" is not he only theoretical way on creating value or digitizing value.
The options are:-
- Reference value - gold, diamonds, shares, airports, toll roads, funds e.g. Blackrock Coin.
- Proof of Human - UBI, charity, voting, etc
- Proof of stake - Ethereum / Cardano
- Proof of work - Bitcoin.
- Wrapping - e.g. Bitcoin in a Cardano wrapper for high volume transactions.
If we are doing UBI a Cryptocoin seems like a great way to do it, it can also reward useful activities, like voting, attending school, participating in medical trials, volunteering etc.
I say proof if human is definitive because it can be established by;-
- Transaction history and reputation.
- References from other verified humans
- Birth certificate
- Facial and voice recognition (also used for proof of life)
- DNA sample.
So my conclusion is if humans decide we need a UBI, we don't necessarily need to rely on governments to create that system. What we need is a coin we can issue that has a sustainable consensus value
Was watching this. Deferring to the collective intelligence here but is where the discussion goes around the 25 minute mark not basically describing the setup for the 2008 financial crisis with bets stacked up bet upon bet that the housing crisis wont go down? It sounds like the DeFi marketplace is a small fraction of the total size of the Ethereum environment but it seems like it would be easy for it to grow to a very dangerous position.
I tend to agree as I can't see any effective way of enforcing margin calls, and ensuring the borrower has the assets to meet a margin call. The collateral assets are taken to service the margin call, but the risk is the borrower getting a margin call when collateral assets are dropping in value.
What is missing is rigorous valuation of the collateral and investment assess and some evaluation of the total assets of the borrower, their income streams etc.
I don't think this detracts from the enormous benefits I see for Blockchain providing financial services for the developing world.
IMO a lot of the microloans in the developing world are not a substantial credit risk, part of that is because the sums of money are not large and part of it is the borrowers are highly motivated to make their business work. And in the end, these people need a hand regardless.
If people are into Crypto to make the world a better place, they will succeed. The the aim is personal wealth, they need to fully understand the risk/reward equation. Because when the tide goes out, not al of the boats will be floating.
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I found this video to be incredibly good. I am not at all a libertarian which is why I think the idea developed democracies need a decentralized banking system is silly. I think a big part of my issue with bitcoin has been that the people who have argued in favor of it don't seem to understand it very well and also seem to be hugely anti government despite living in countries with governments that do a lot for them. Seeing that even the big ARK Bitcoin Bull at the end thought it was silly to see Americans talking about protecting their money from the government makes me feel like the whole thing isn't just crazy. I do see the value in this for developing nations. But I also recall everyone talking about how much good facebook and other social media would do for developing nations. That didn't really pan out so well, and now its backfiring on developed nations by creating hyper polarized environments. I fear for what a decentralized currency systems unintended consequences will be.
And then seeing the risks of DeFi between the fraudulent coin systems for which the perpetrators are clearly executing ponzi schemes to the well intentioned ones where the "CEO" of compound - which strikes me as weird because the whole idea of this is there is no central figure once its launched - says with a look of shy uncertainty "uh, ya so we haven't see all hell break loose in a margin call situation yet" makes me deeply concerned about where this will lead.
And then seeing the risks of DeFi between the fraudulent coin systems for which the perpetrators are clearly executing ponzi schemes to the well intentioned ones where the "CEO" of compound - which strikes me as weird because the whole idea of this is there is no central figure once its launched - says with a look of shy uncertainty "uh, ya so we haven't see all hell break loose in a margin call situation yet" makes me deeply concerned about where this will lead.
Corporates investing in crypto
Likely to become more and more common amongst treasury functions of public companies with Tesla jumping in on BTC. Article does a job outlining all the treasury, tax, and accounting considerations of investing in crypto assets.
It also confirms my comments in the main investor thread around the accounting and tax implications to Tesla now that they initiated a 1.5B position in BTC.
Likely to become more and more common amongst treasury functions of public companies with Tesla jumping in on BTC. Article does a job outlining all the treasury, tax, and accounting considerations of investing in crypto assets.
It also confirms my comments in the main investor thread around the accounting and tax implications to Tesla now that they initiated a 1.5B position in BTC.
i'm just a boring HODL TSLA forever sort of guy & ignorant regarding these newfangled cyptocurrencies but this article by Jason Perlow at ZDnet presents some interesting ideas about how excess energy from your Tesla solar roof or panels, stored in a powerwall, might fuel the car to mine bitcoins whilst it's otherwise sitting dormant in the garage. Is this realistic?, and if so would it make it economical to then supersize the solar installation on your roof? And if that were implemented at scale across thousands of homes, could it begin to offset the energy intensity that coin mining is criticized for? This stuff seems farfetched at present but if Tony Seba's superenergy surplus comes to fruition someday there'll be many things that start to make more sense and I'd be surprised if Elon's bitcoin and crypto flirtations aren't done in part to maintain this future optionality.
Tesla’s next business: Turning your solar roof and EV into Bitcoin mines | ZDNet
Tesla’s next business: Turning your solar roof and EV into Bitcoin mines | ZDNet
Pezpunk
Active Member
No. This would be horrendously wasteful and inefficient. I say this as someone who is generally bullish on crypto and has built dedicated crypto mining rigs.
The dollar amount generated by your car would only be a few pennies a day. Maybe a buck or two a day would be possible if the car's GPU architecture happened to be particularly well-suited to the crypto currency algorithm it's mining. But that's before factoring in the energy cost and wear and tear on the car's GPU to have it pegged at 100% throttle 24 hours a day. (pro tip: it will NOT last long like that! It'd also be quite noisy, and generate a ton of heat in your garage)
Just thinking out loud, but i suppose Tesla could develop its own proprietary coin that its cars are optimized to mine, but i don't know how feasible that would be. All it'd take is for someone to develop an ASIC for that algorithm, and instantly all the cars' hardware would be obsolete for mining purposes (meaning the coin's price would drop to the point where cars would lose money in energy by mining it).
Maybe there's a way to make that work, but really, what is the benefit? Some vague implication of profit? I don't get it. Don't we already have enough ways to speculate by moving money around? I don't see this as a worthwhile use of Tesla's time.
I thought Tesla had a specific mission it was focused on.
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To write something like what has been written in that article about Tesla, falls for me in the same category as: ‘all COVID-19 vaccines contain a secret chip manufactured by Bill Gates.’ There is no cure for stupidity, unfortunately.
UkNorthampton
TSLA - 12+ startups in 1
Much easier to set up mining in datacentres near SWB (Solar + Wind + Batteries) with grid connection. When there is an oversupply from the grid or renewables (price may go negative), switch on the mining to absorb the extra electricity/stabilise the grid.
Tony Seba / Adam Dorr are suggesting cheapest SWB is 3-5 times the minimum power generation needed (in the future/at that time). 60-90+% of the time there will be an abundance of 'SuperPower'. ie - need 1GW peak/avg/minimum (unclear) - SWB will supply 3-5GW 60-90% of the time, only rarely dropping to sufficiency level for short periods (no wind, no sun, high demand).
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