Bolt EV EPA range = 238 miles combined!

[Mkorpal]

From a North America perspective: Bolt range, 238 miles. Model 3 range, 95% of North America, and lower Canada.

I do love that Chevy is making an effort though. Maybe in time they will buy in to help expand and use the Supercharger network.

That will never happen. The legacies are too stubborn to ask Tesla to piggyback on their work. Instead, they will eventually settle on a common standard DC fast charge design and the gas companies like Shell and Exxon will build them out at their stations. That is, of course, assuming EVs move past the niche and into the mainstream.

 

[Lloyd]

DC charging will be possible at a 180 mph charging rate. And at only 50kW the taper will be much less than seen with a Supercharger.

Right, but the CCS charging infrastructure is not sufficient for any numbers of these cars. Locations are spread out, but mostly only a single car slot is available.

 

[JohnSnowNW]

Whelp, this is what we got so far:

REALLY hoping this is a VERY ROUGH version of the final dash.

We already know it is.

 

[Zoomit]

Right, but the CCS charging infrastructure is not sufficient for any numbers of these cars. Locations are spread out, but mostly only a single car slot is available.

Not only are CCS locations spread out, they're generally in town and not along the highway.

 

[SageBrush]

I don't see how plus and minus $850 would sway Model 3 customers to get Bolt (of course not counting those who want hatch). 5-10k difference - maybe.

if the Bolt price drops into LEAF-ish range Nissan has a problem. Tesla can ignore the Bolt for all those consumers that want flexible long distance driving capability. My score-card (out of 10):

Corporate Affinity: Tesla 9.75, GM 1.0
Long Distance Driving: Tesla 8.5, GM 1.0
Commuter Car: Tesla 8, GM 10
MSRP: Tesla 6.5, GM 6.0

 

[Vitold]

This thing called "physics" you are trying to point out also applies to all EVs...and all cars in general. It is not Bolt-specific.

The boxier the shape the better is city economy vs highway because drag quadruples when speed doubles. Bolt is a box on wheels compared to some.

 

[Jeff N]

Where do folks think that they can charge the Bolt on road trips?

The CCS chargers already form a rudimentary and usable layout along most of the east and west coasts where most EVs are near. I think all EVgo stations are now 125A ("50 kW"). The CCS spec is already good for 200A but present generation stations were mostly designed with CHAdeMO's 125A limitation in mind. This will change quickly now that there will be new cars on the road that can accept a faster charge with their bigger batteries and because those cars will have range capable of occasional long-distance driving.

Also, both CHAdeMO and CCS/CharIn are months away from formalizing updated specifications that allow for 350A and in another year or so after that they plan to formally approve doubling the charge voltage as well.

VW has agreed to spend $200 million a year on infrastructure and most of it will likely go towards CCS charging (with CHAdeMO plugs as well for now). The plans are being overseen by EPA and CARB which means VW, which isn't particularly invested in H2 fuel cells, will be forced to waste some of it on expensive H2 stations. Still, I'm confident that lots will go towards highway-oriented Supercharger-like deployment. VW/Audi/Porsche needs CCS charging infrastructure do their big battery cars can compete with Tesla.

Maximum 25 mph charging rate will make the Bolt a city car only. Long distance travel will not be possible or incredibly slow.

Um, that rate only applies to AC charging which is mostly meant for home, workplace, and shopping center use where 25 mph rates are usually fine.

 

[gaswalla]

As a long time tesla owner, and CHAdeMO user, it stinks to be dependent on any charger that is a solo or dual system, especially in the middle of nowhere on a road trip. Especially, if the owner of the charger does not have 24/7 maintenance team. The redundancy of the supercharger system is game changing.

 

[LargeHamCollider]

Congrats to GM, that is a great number.

The breakdown between city range and highway range will be illuminating though. I'd bet $1k right now that the base M3 will have better highway range than the Bolt with the gap widening as speed increases.

 

[Alketi]

Aside from the obvious larger benefits to the EV movement, and the likelihood that we'll hit a "perception" critical mass as soon as 2018, GM's news is actually GREAT for Model 3 reservation holders.

One would have to conclude that this significantly increases the possibility that the base Model 3, whether for competitiveness or bragging rights, will ship with at least an EPA rating of 240 miles.

 

[Bokonon]

Maximum 25 mph charging rate will make the Bolt a city car only. Long distance travel will not be possible or incredibly slow.

Possible? Sure... assuming your route has the infrastructure, and it's appropriately reliable and redundant (a somewhat dubious assumption at the moment, save for a few coastal corridors).

Pleasant? That's debatable... Even with what GM calls "Super Fast" charging (thank you, marketing department -- I'm comfortable with the terms "DC" and "CCS") 90 miles in 30 minutes is about half of what you'd get at a supercharger for the same battery capacity, so you're going to have to make about twice as many stops versus a similarly-equipped Tesla. Put another way, the Bolt can only regain up to 38% of its range after 30 minutes (versus ~80%).

50 kW was fine for the first generation of ~80 mile EVs, but for this new generation of 200+ mile vehicles, road-trippers will need more juice, and they will need enough reliability and redundancy to minimize the risk of being stranded with little more than a 120V gas station outlet available. In that sense, it's almost a blessing that the CCS infrastructure hasn't been built yet, so they can do it right, with redundant 100-150 kW stations and so forth.

 

[Jeff N]

Not only are CCS locations spread out, they're generally in town and not along the highway.

But that's because few people want to take road trips in a LEAF or a Spark EV. Now that Bolt EV's and soon a variety of other 50+ kWh cars will be coming out there will be plenty of cars that need highway charging stations -- and so they will be built. And VW will pay for it.

 

[bro1999]

2017 Chevrolet Bolt EV first drive: 240 miles in an electric car

Bolt EV used 58.7 kWh during a full range test drive by media. That's almost 98% of capacity! And they probably didn't run it ALL the way down. The Bolt pretty much uses all of its 60 kWh pack. Impressive! GM wouldn't push the battery pack that hard unless they knew it could hold up over time.

 

[RubberToe]

VW has agreed to spend $200 million a year...

VW will be spending $200 million every 30 months, in 4 separate tranches:

VW Fallout: $2.0 Billion for ZEV Infrastructure Buildout

 

[Bokonon]

2017 Chevrolet Bolt EV first drive: 240 miles in an electric car

Bolt EV used 58.7 kWh during a full range test drive by media. That's almost 98% of capacity! And they probably didn't run it ALL the way down. The Bolt pretty much uses all of its 60 kWh pack. Impressive! GM wouldn't push the battery pack that hard unless they knew it could hold up over time.

That's an awfully small buffer... heck, that's only a third of the buffer that my 24kWh e-Golf has!

Earlier in this thread, some were speculating that the true capacity of the pack may actually be greater than the nice round number of 60 kWh. In my mind, this data point only bolsters that case.

 

[McFlurri]

The boxier the shape the better is city economy vs highway because drag quadruples when speed doubles. Bolt is a box on wheels compared to some.

Basically all of the EV's available today are "boxes". Kia Soul EV, Nissan Leaf, Mitsubishi i-MIEV, BMW i-3, Smart EV, Toyota iQ, Chevy Spark EV, Fiat 500e.

That leaves us with what... Ford Focus Electric, VW E-Golf, Hyundai Ioniq (Not even out yet), and the Model S.

I'm not including plug-in hybrids obviously, but you see my point. The Bolt EV is no more or less "boxy" then the large majority of EV's. So I guess... what's your point?

 

[ggnykk]

GM also claim on CNBC interview that they are the biggest producer of EV and got more advanced tech than Tesla. haha, wtf!! they are so full of BS. Do you really believe in their 238 miles claim?

 

[Zoomit]

Do you really believe in their 238 miles claim?

Yes, as do these reporters.

2017 Chevrolet Bolt EV first drive: 240 miles in an electric car

 

[bro1999]

GM also claim on CNBC interview that they are the biggest producer of EV and got more advanced tech than Tesla. haha, wtf!! they are so full of BS. Do you really believe in their 238 miles claim?

Hold onto your Tesla socks, but Greencarreports and now the L.A. Times verified the 238 mile range....and then some: Can the 2017 Chevy Bolt EV really go 200-plus miles with no recharge? We try it

GCR reporter got 240 miles of range. The LA times reporter, driving more conservatively, drove the same 240 mile route....and had an estimated 50 miles of charge remaining.

 

[McRat]

Of course they did. GM understands the EPA cycle as well as anyone and builds to it whenever it so important for marketing and/or fleet economy purposes. ....

Then why does my Corvette get better mileage than the EPA says it does? Why do my kid's Volts get better range than the EPA says?
How come I could whip Road and Track and Car and Driver in our CTS-V at the strip? Heck it's a damn AUTOMATIC. It doesn't even require skills to drive.

The biggest comedy was when John K from Motor Trend published a 12.85 ET on the 2002 Z06 Vette. I emailed him a video of my wife running 11.95 ET in the same car, which is a stick. Then I lit him up on a Blog. He called me at work and called me every cuss-word that a yuppie could know.

If you want to talk about fudging numbers, will you sell me your 762 HP Tesla? All the magazines were given that number by Tesla.
750 hp in a 6420lb pickup runs 10.65@130mph at a national competition with thousands of fans, and it goes 197.068 mph clocked at Bonneville. It has the aero of a hay barn.

Nobody who knew about cars believed the HP marketing. The MPH trap speed was wrong for the weight.

Believe whatever you want about things you have experience with. But it's not necessary to just make up FUD about a brand you'll never own.