I was with you, until you said the above. No matter how used to regen braking one gets, you still use the brake pedal. Your concern doesnt need to be about "tesla drivers not using the manual brake much". Your concern should be about YOUR vehicle being repaired properly, so the brakes work.
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Brake failed and almost crashed
- Thread starter junos12
- Start date
My car is still under warranty, they just don’t know the cause of the damage. Maybe someone can tell me when I get the picture.
I think @MP3Mike 's question was around whether they were asking you to pay for it or not. Your car could be under warranty, but (for example) if they think something external damaged it, and can prove that, they might ask you to pay for it, or, alternatively, call the repair a "good will gesture".
If they think its something that failed under warranty, it would likely just be warranty work. The fact that they have not yet said to you "So and so happened, it will cost such and such to fix" means they dont intend to charge you, but that doesnt necessarily mean anything one way or the other... it just means they cant prove it was not a warranty issue, OR they dont want to get into that with a driver who had failed brakes.
I think he just means that ICE drivers typically detect a lack of brake pedal function pretty quickly since they hit their brakes on the time. Like they'd notice something amiss pulling out of their drive way or navigating their apartment parking lot.
But a Tesla driver could get all the way out to freeway speeds and the first time they get on the brake is in an emergency event. So maybe he's had no brake pressure for miles and didn't realize it since the car didn't alert him to the problem.
Most newer vehicles have a brake pressure sensor (tied to the ABS module) and a brake fluid reservoir sensor. The first helps identify if brake pressure isn't translating to adequate braking pressure, and the second tells you if the brake fluid has dropped. Assuming OP had no sensor warnings, he's just pointing out that other Tesla drivers are at risk.
Given the number of Teslas out there and a lack of reported incidents on this issue, it seems like junos12 is just a very unlucky driver. But for him, this seems like a big deal since he was the one that was struck by the rather isolated event, and he probably now has a feeling the problem can happen to others just like him.
Edit, I still don't know how to convince his wife the car is safe since she's probably thinking if it happened once it'll happen again. Tesla should be able to explain to junos12 why this is a rare one/off. But I think simply saying "we fixed it" without addressing the unique context will not be sufficient.
I dont know either, actually. I had a BMW X5 that I got new that had electrical gremlins and stranded my wife once at the grocery store, and another time had the lights not work, with all sorts of error messages, when she had went to a girlfriends house for "girls day / night". This was all within the first 1k miles or so.
She had been able to video all the error messages on her phone. I took it in for service 4 different times and they kept saying "its fixed" then 2-3 weeks later, the lights wouldnt come on until she power cycled the car or something. After the third time, she basically told me she didnt feel safe in it. My wife is "very" mellow, and I was right there with her. I ended up getting BMW to basically give me a new one (4 times repair same thing, + 30 Days vehicle in service).
If I was OP, I wouldnt even try to convince their significant other that car was fine. Given the used car market right now, I would likely get it back from tesla, and proceed to sell it to carvana / vroom etc, and would buy another tesla. The convincing I would attempt to do is that "it was a one off, and I got rid of that one, so we should be ok"
Thats what I would likely do, because she would never trust it again, and ANY little thing would turn into a "discussion" about how that specific car was a gremlin, lemon, etc etc. I have been married a long time (36 years) and know better than to go down that rabbit hole, lol.
1LE McQueen
Member
Never once had an issue with my brakes, or any one elses in my family. 2002 Camaro, 2002 Pontiac Trans Am WS6, 2006 BMW 745LI, 2014 Camaro SS, 1991 Mercedes E300, 2010 BMW 135I, 2016 Ford Explorer, 2020 Veloster N.. these are just the cars I can remember off the top of my head throughout my 30 years of living. Not one of them ever had a brake failure, even the 15+ year old cars. I've also never been rear-ended, never hit anyone while braking, nor ever seen anyone get rear-ended. No one in my family has a similar story of failed braking.
This sorta thing is inexcusable, especially in a newish car.
This sorta thing is inexcusable, especially in a newish car.
IMO, I think his wife may not want a Tesla again after this lol.
But yeah, I agree maybe junos12 needs to think about replacing his car. You know, to avoid irreconcilable differences over some brake lines
Yeah the braking system is no joke when it comes to vehicle safety. Given the millions of miles travelled on US roadways and the age of many of the vehicles, it is very unlikely a single individual (or family) will encounter a brake failure during normal ownership assuming the system is maintained. What junos12 encountered should be very very very rare. But that's also why I think he should document it in the NHTSA database so we can learn over time just how rare it is.
I looked at the database under the Model 3 and I can't find any example of someone claiming brake failure (edit, in the manner described in this thread). I just hope the lack of data points is because there was a real lack of issues. Not because people got talked out of submitting a NHTSA complaint because it was "no big deal."
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I’ve owned 2014 model S p85, and 2018 model 3 performance. Of course these cars have some issues. Mostly software which doesn’t avoid accidents as the cars AEB, automatic emergency braking, dont work unless you’re autopilot is engaged! Go figure!. The brakes aren’t the best but they have not failed me. These are not really sports cars! They’re heavy and as great as the accelerations are, reported range and braking isn’t their strength! I’ve sent many emails and tweeted to Tesla but apparently Elon only responds if there are some boobs attached to the tweets or emails.
Emergency brake? Hold the shifter button!? Are you serious? It’ll take several seconds to engage and it’ll only hold two of the wheels. It’ll never stop you! Brake failures need to be reported ASAP! Serious danger!
Our last ICE vehicle had a stop-start function on the engine. My wife was at a red light, the engine shut down (as it should have) and when the light turned green, she hit the accelerator and it started. Except that it was misfiring and running so poorly, the vehicle actually started rolling backwards!
She managed to slam it into park and was stuck at the traffic light with angry people behind her. Shut down again, restarted and it was just fine.
Long story, but as it turns out, there was a software bug in the engine control software. Under the right condition, the ECU register that tracks the cam phaser position gets overwritten with garbage. So the vehicle thinks the camshaft is somewhere it isn't. Shutdown and restart again resets the cam phaser back to its "zero" position, the vehicle picks right up and the engine runs fine. Very esoteric bug, but one which GM was aware of when I brought the vehicle in on a flatbed. (I wasn't trusting the thing at that point.)
Engineer's answer? "Well, we know what's happening but not why. But don't worry about it, this doesn't happen very often, you just got unlucky.". (See the technote: https://static.nhtsa.gov/odi/tsbs/2019/MC-10154328-9999.pdf)
Horrible answer, and I had to explain to my wife that the shutdown and terrifying event she had was just bad luck.
Not a conversation that went over well. (And yes, for those playing along at home, that's the same vehicle that the deer tried to mate with. Snakebit, it was.)
I mention it because I'd sure be a LOT more comfortable having a "well, we had a bad brake line but it's been fixed and tested now" conversation than that one! It's a lot easier to explain that there was a physical failure than how data registers are stored. ;-)
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I would've shut off the engine off on idle feature until a fix was implemented. I think most BMW's have it as user configurable, not sure about GM's.
It’s not a configurable feature, at least in that model year. Doesn’t matter - we sold the thing and moved on to a Model X. Win for everyone involved.
GlmnAlyAirCar
Active Member
I don't know how this misinformation is so widespread. The brakes are activated every time the car stops. Even if regen brings the car entirely to a stop, the hydraulically actuated brakes grab as soon as the car goes into (H). True, they are not used to bring the car to a stop, leading to much longer brake pad life, but they are still used.
All safety features work regardless of AP. You don't even have to buy ap or fsd.
Parts fail. It happens to all cars, all brands - including "better" and "worse" brand than Tesla. The tech at the service center will repair the fault, visually and kinetically inspect the system, check is the car is reporting any other issues, road test it a few miles with varying levels of stopping effort, and then release it to you.
As far as running all sorts of tests ... You are greatly overestimating the efficacy of assembly plant 'tests', pre-delivery inspection 'tests', etc. At this point in the product life cycle 1 out of every 100 (for example) assemblies may get pulled off of the production line for scrutineering, but otherwise the deign of the assembly, as well as the processes, have been proven out. There will be one or two cursory checks or validations that every car assembly will undergo through the course of production but if nothing pops up at that time then there is no reason to suspect some outlier fault. These are mass produced, "road tested" 2-3 miles, and then shuffled off to the trains & trucks for delivery.
Outliers happen at all stages of the process, and larger scale problems are why there is a nationally recognized and regulated recall process.
Is this even true? In hold mode, the physical brakes are what's used to "hold" the car? I somehow doubt that. It doesn't feel that way to me, cause sometimes when you are very slow and let it naturally flow in to the hold, the car rocks a little before holding so I doubt the physical brakes are being used. And when you stomp on the accelerator, the brakes don't seem to get in the way.
The people disagreeing don't seem to know how the electric magnets and electric motors work. The natural state of the IPM-SynRM motor used is the hold state. It doesn't want to spin.
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The brakes are used in Hold. You can even see/feel the brake pedal move when you stop/start.
GlmnAlyAirCar
Active Member
Yes it’s definitely true. You can hear them release when it’s cool and wet with a slight squeak like any other car.
