Buyer Beware: AP2 Extremely Dangerous

[JeffK]

The point I was answering was the claim that Tesla's TACC was for highways only. I was surprised by that.

It's likely they are just covering their butts by saying that. As far as AP 2.0 there does seem to be an issue. People are reporting with false positives, but I've also seen some positive reviews of AP 2.0. False positives can still cause accidents but it's likely better than a false negative.

I'm still hoping that if months go by and it's found that AP 2.0 hardware is inadequate for FSD, that they make any necessary change before Model 3 rolls off the line. I believe it might be ok, just a software and data issue right now. We'll see.

 

[number12]

How does anyone think ap2.0 is ready for FSD without a driver camera? Is there one I have not heard about?

That's a liability nightmare.

Cars batteries will be dead before current 2.0 cars ever drive by themselves... whether that's regulations or hardware deficiency I am not sure. Probably a mixture of both.

 

[JeffK]

How does anyone think ap2.0 is ready for FSD without a driver camera? Is there one I have not heard about?

Why is there a need for a driver camera? You mean a camera facing the driver right?
I can't imagine a need for one with FSD

 

[NerdUno]

Driver camera would be great to capture driver reactions to AP2...

 

[number12]

Why is there a need for a driver camera? You mean a camera facing the driver right?
I can't imagine a need for one with FSD

Car runs over kid. Was it FSD or driver chilling in the back seat?

Hacking the software and making it speed

I mean I'm coming up with stupid examples but the reasons are endless. Image the court proceedings. Cabin cameras will almost have to be installed before it's ever allowed. Imho.

 

[croman]

Car runs over kid. Was it FSD or driver chilling in the back seat?

Hacking the software and making it speed

I mean I'm coming up with stupid examples but the reasons are endless. Image the court proceedings. Cabin cameras will almost have to be installed before it's ever allowed. Imho.

1. Hacking software = DMCA violation. Hacking anything like this would be criminal to begin with, so any results are further crimes.

2. No need if true FSD. While regulatory approval might hinge on having a driver in the driver's seat. All existing negligence laws would cover any driver negligence by violating the law. This is unnecessary. None of your examples illustrate and legal gaps.

 

[GTIceman]

How does anyone think ap2.0 is ready for FSD without a driver camera? Is there one I have not heard about?

That's a liability nightmare.

Cars batteries will be dead before current 2.0 cars ever drive by themselves... whether that's regulations or hardware deficiency I am not sure. Probably a mixture of both.

Not sure how this is a liability nightmare? I see no need for a driver camera full FSD means the car can even drive with no individual present in the vehicle theoretically. Also the Teslas have sensors in the driver seats so if regulations require someone to be seated it is easy to implement. If someone finds a way to bypass then the driver/owner is at fault.

 

[JeffK]

Not sure how this is a liability nightmare? I see no need for a driver camera full FSD means the car can even drive with no individual present in the vehicle theoretically. Also the Teslas have sensors in the driver seats so if regulations require someone to be seated it is easy to implement. If someone finds a way to bypass then the driver/owner is at fault.

I agree.

I mean if a cop drives by a car and there's no driver in the driver's seat and that's not allowed in the region, then I'm sure the owner will get a ticket (or have their car impounded).

 

[GTIceman]

I agree.

I mean if a cop drives by a car and there's no driver in the driver's seat and that's not allowed in the region, then I'm sure the owner will get a ticket (or have their car impounded).

Well there is the issue the regulation will need to be universal regarding FSD as i believe it is more safety. Sure states could make changes but also could lose out on funding .. case in point the drinking age

Lots to see before FSD

 

[JeffK]

Sure states could make changes but also could lose out on funding .. case in point the drinking age

This would depend on the federal government coming up with such regulation. I hope it is at the national scale vs individual states. Somehow I think my state would find a way to mess it up.

 

[number12]

Wow not even one person agrees with me?

I even think there will be a recording mic in the car. Whether that is for voice controls or legality reasons (think black box for airplanes) I am not sure.

Never been so wrong on something... guess we will see in 3-4 years when we actually see a car driving itself around.

 

[JeffK]

Wow not even one person agrees with me?

I even think there will be a recording mic in the car. Whether that is for voice controls or legality reasons (think black box for airplanes) I am not sure.

Never been so wrong on something... guess we will see in 3-4 years when we actually see a car driving itself around.

There's zero reason for the manufacturer to do this. The owners can install these on their own if they want. I think we discussed this in a ride sharing thread.
However, if I own the car and I don't do ridesharing then there's no reason to install such a system.
If there was a problem with the self driving feature then logs would prove it, if there was a problem with the human driver then logs would prove that too. You might forget all Tesla Model S/X vehicles have logs already which serve as a "black box".

The only reason I'd need a video or a mic (which is illegal in many places btw) is if I'm doing ridesharing and someone trashes the interior of the car.

 

[disagree]

I'd happily have a mic in my car right now so that Tesla could hear my live-action comments on the quality and progress of EAP!

 

[croman]

Wow not even one person agrees with me?

I even think there will be a recording mic in the car. Whether that is for voice controls or legality reasons (think black box for airplanes) I am not sure.

Never been so wrong on something... guess we will see in 3-4 years when we actually see a car driving itself around.

That would be illegal in IL. No eavesdropping devices may be present. Tesla or any regulator eavesdropping would violate the IL Constitution. People have an expectation of privacy in their vehicle, especially from Tesla or any third party listening in on their private conversations. I, as an attorney, wouldn't be able to take confidential calls (or much of any calls) while in my vehicle. I'd sell my car and buy a normal car at that point.

 

[NerdUno]

1. Hacking software = DMCA violation. Hacking anything like this would be criminal to begin with, so any results are further crimes.

Your "legal opinion" as it pertains to cars is no longer correct. New DMCA Exemptions Mean You Can Now Hack Your Own Car

 

[ajax]

I'd happily have a mic in my car right now so that Tesla could hear my live-action comments on the quality and progress of EAP!

I'm not sure if this post was supposed to be sarcastic, but just in case anyone wasn't aware, you can hold the "Talk" button and say "Note", "Report", "Bug note", or "Bug report" followed by your comments.

 

[croman]

Your "legal opinion" as it pertains to cars is no longer correct. New DMCA Exemptions Mean You Can Now Hack Your Own Car

The hack proposed was illegal and this still illegal. Read the article you linked.

 

[JeffK]

Your "legal opinion" as it pertains to cars is no longer correct. New DMCA Exemptions Mean You Can Now Hack Your Own Car

This really depends on local laws. For example Michigan has a proposed bill SB 927 that mentions a life sentence for hacking a car.

 

[Plastic6]

Help my model X P100D is in and I don't want to take delivery. When I purchased the car 3 months ago sales person told me by the time my shows up autopilot will be way better than my model s p85d. That is not where near the case right now. Tesla told me take the car it will not be much longer before the ap2 is better? Ok take $160,000 car and hope that is the case? Also traded in my Mercedes amg63 so I also have a $7000.00 tax credit that will be lost if I don't take delivery, and the unlimited supercharging. Thoughts

 

[Saghost]

Help my model X P100D is in and I don't want to take delivery. When I purchased the car 3 months ago sales person told me by the time my shows up autopilot will be way better than my model s p85d. That is not where near the case right now. Tesla told me take the car it will not be much longer before the ap2 is better? Ok take $160,000 car and hope that is the case? Also traded in my Mercedes amg63 so I also have a $7000.00 tax credit that will be lost if I don't take delivery, and the unlimited supercharging. Thoughts

I have confidence that AP2 will be much better than AP1. Tesla has a pretty good track record for keeping most of their rather remarkable promises. Eventually. How soon is a good question, but I wouldn't be surprised if they were getting fairly close now.

In my opinion the X is a much better car than the S, too - or at least a much better one for me.

In your shoes, I'd take delivery and wait impatiently for better firmware that I'm confident will be coming. But you need to decide what you want to do.