Calling P85D owners world-wide for survey and complaint letter

[Torben_E]

Dear Matias

I have a firm believe that a sober dialog is the way for solving issues.

We have since April 2015 been having noumerous exchanges of words face:face with Tesla in DK (in the service centers and sales offices) but very little action or responses has been to our satisfaction.
Although many in our 15 man P85D group was very sceptical that we would get any reply from Tesla we decided to send two official complaint letters (with 1 weeks interval) to Tesla before sending out the "Calling P85D owners worldwide" message. This was a very conscious decision as we wanted to give Tesla a chance (19 days) to reply to our compaint.

Right now we are gathering information to understand if this is a DK issue or we have fellow P85D ethusiast worldwide. If this is the case the 3rd letter will be a further escalation.

Many call me naive and I would never blame you if you did the same, however for me the process of these kind of complaints are very important if you want to be taken serious.

I am not ready to go into more details here, but trust me, we have a firm believe that we will receive a response soner or later.

Br

Torben_E

 

[SwedishAdvocate]

.../ I am not going to try and hurt a company who is trying to look at the big picture though.

Yeah…

Some tenths of a second vs. all that is worth to love.

The OP and company sure do have their priorities straight – that’s for sure…

No. I do not own a P85D (or any other Tesla). Too much time spent not prioritizing my private economy. But if I did own a P85D, I can guarantee you I couldn’t care less!

 

[Hookmaker]

Matias, I don't mention Ludicrous mode, I don't care for it and therefore I will not ask for it. I simply want Tesla Motors to either find a fix for the P85D so that my vehicle matches the ML F1 AS PROMISED or ADMIT publicly that it can not and that the have wrongfully advertised and sold the P85D as something it isn't. Simple as that.

 

[Matias]

What would Tesla benefit from admitting that P85D doesn't deliver what was promised? That would only hurt them.

 

[lolachampcar]

Has anyone put a PD up against an F1 and done a 0-60 mph or 0-100 kph run? We could very well be getting our knickers in a twist over nothing, as in, the PD could actually match or beat an F1.

 

[McMuggets]

Has anyone put a PD up against an F1 and done a 0-60 mph or 0-100 kph run? We could very well be getting our knickers in a twist over nothing, as in, the PD could actually match or beat an F1.

My bet is that the majority of people complaining about the "roll out start" or the tenth of a second thing can't drive a McLaren F1 perfectly enough to achieve the "advertised" McLaren F1 numbers. But with the P85D... you just mash the darn pedal and off it goes. By the way, the only way to truly do the test vs. the McLaren F1 is to have them both side by side on the same pavement surface driven by similar weighted drivers with similar driving skills. Either that or have the same professional driver try out both cars one after another. Does it matter to the complainers that the P85D can probably beat a lot of ICE cars with higher engine horsepower than itself? You can have all the horsepower in the world, but if you can't efficiently translate that to the pavement then the results suck. Efficient entails driver ease of attaining such performance. Many modified muscle cars have 700+ horsepower, but most can only be driven perfectly by either the owner or a professional driver without first spinning out and fishtailing plus be shifted perfectly into each gear along the way. By the way, my old ICE car has a stated horsepower.... and over time the car has gotten worse. As in, the moving parts have probably worn in and the car doesn't feel nearly as jumpy off the line nor has as much passing power than it felt like when I first bought it. Maybe I should write Subaru and ask them to refund me money for not putting in a disclaimer that car efficiency goes down after you drive it for awhile....

Most Tesla owners care about what the results are after they mash the pedal down. The efficiency loss of the Model S after driving it for awhile is nowhere close to a brand new ICE car a year after you've bought it.

 

[dsm363]

Has anyone put a PD up against an F1 and done a 0-60 mph or 0-100 kph run? We could very well be getting our knickers in a twist over nothing, as in, the PD could actually match or beat an F1.

What percentage of drivers would you say have the skill necessary to get the max 0-60 time on the F1 (regardless of what the time actually is)? If it's not 100% then maybe those driver's should have McLaren give them a free engine upgrade or maybe lessons from McLaren paid for by a professional instructor in order to hit the advertised times.

 

[Hybris]

We have seen PD beat many cars that state a 0-100 in 3.2-3.4s to 100 kph. Enough said?

 

[Christopher1]

I can beat every supercar thats "goes" 0-100 in 3.2-3.4s to 100 kph.. Not even fully charged...
This BS is a waste off teslas time and money. Go stay with your family or something...

 

[mgboyes]

Matias, I don't mention Ludicrous mode, I don't care for it and therefore I will not ask for it. I simply want Tesla Motors to either find a fix for the P85D so that my vehicle matches the ML F1 AS PROMISED or ADMIT publicly that it can not and that the have wrongfully advertised and sold the P85D as something it isn't. Simple as that.

I thought the McLaren F1 0-60 time of 3.2s was actually recorded with a pre-producton prototype. Do we know of someone who's achieved that (genuine 0-60, no rollout, measured ideally with modern GPS timing like a VBox) in a production F1?

I realise that it is going to be hard to prove in practice, but I'm extremely confident that if you put an F1 and a P85D next to each other on a strip the P85D would win the 0-60 (but not the quarter mile).

 

[rns-e]

Has anyone put a PD up against an F1 and done a 0-60 mph or 0-100 kph run? We could very well be getting our knickers in a twist over nothing, as in, the PD could actually match or beat an F1.

Well the cars are now 25 years old, so they will must likely not perform like when new, not to mention extreamly expensive. Rowan Atkinson sold his twice wrecked F1 for $12mill, so good luck finding one to test with. Could be fun though

I can beat every supercar thats "goes" 0-100 in 3.2-3.4s to 100 kph.. Not even fully charged...
This BS is a waste off teslas time and money. Go stay with your family or something...

Even if what you are saying was true, which it is not, it does not make Teslas claim more correct. But hey, write Tesla a letter stating that you are perfectly happy with your car. This is so weird, no other car forums do you have this reaction to people pointing out facts and faults.

 

[MuppetOwl]

I can beat every supercar thats "goes" 0-100 in 3.2-3.4s to 100 kph.. Not even fully charged...
This BS is a waste off teslas time and money. Go stay with your family or something...

BS. I have lost against my friends Nissan Gtr 35. Above 130kph the Tesla is much slower.
As long the cars are 4wd and use launch control you will lose if the car does 0-100kph faster than 3.6. P85D did also loose in a dragrace agaist the Porsche Panamera turbo s

m.youtube.com/watch?v=4x1nOLAdEtk

 

[joer00]

Matias,

I think you guys going the wrong way. The "better than F1" performance was just one statement which is very hard to prove or disprove. You miss the SIMPLE point. Early buyers ( I assume you guys) bought the car with 691 HP (NOT !! motor power which was changed later) and with all the different opinions and reasoning here I think nobody sane questions anymore that that 691 HP NEVER EVER was delivered and that it is NOT POSSIBLE with the current battery/contactors.

So instead of demanding the McLaren performance, I would rather demand what I paid for. I am sure if your cars actually make 691 HP, all the expected performance is there.

I agree with other posters that I doubt Tesla will answer a third letter, at least not with any meaningful information. I am 100 % sure Tesla knows that they screwed this up and they are just sitting it out. They trust that our positive attitude towards Tesla will result in accepting what we usually would not accept with any other product/manufacturer.

I admit this is difficult. I absolutely love my car, I stand behind Tesla and the big picture. There have been other issues where Tesla AT FIRST did not deliver what was promised, but so far they ALWAYS fixed it, it just took a while (for example torque sleep). I was silent with the performance issue as I was sure the "software update for performance at high speed" will fix it and give me what I paid for.

So I was shocked when that "free software update" now became a 5000$ + payment.

For the FIRST TIME Tesla does not deliver. I am very disappointed how this is handled by Tesla, very sad situation.

For all of you guys who accept that you get max 550 HP instead of 691 HP and are now willing to pay 5000 $ to get the 691 HP ( which you already paid for ), I am 100 % sure that on your daily life you frequently act different when it is not a Tesla.

I disagree but accept your opinion. However calling people who just demand the same fair standards for Tesla than for any other company "whiners, unfair,trouble maker, first world problem etc" is ridiculous.

 

[rns-e]

Matias,

I think you guys going the wrong way. The "better than F1" performance was just one statement which is very hard to prove or disprove. You miss the SIMPLE point. Early buyers ( I assume you guys) bought the car with 691 HP (NOT !! motor power which was changed later) and with all the different opinions and reasoning here I think nobody sane questions anymore that that 691 HP NEVER EVER was delivered and that it is NOT POSSIBLE with the current battery/contactors.

So instead of demanding the McLaren performance, I would rather demand what I paid for. I am sure if your cars actually make 691 HP, all the expected performance is there.

I agree with other posters that I doubt Tesla will answer a third letter, at least not with any meaningful information. I am 100 % sure Tesla knows that they screwed this up and they are just sitting it out. They trust that our positive attitude towards Tesla will result in accepting what we usually would not accept with any other product/manufacturer.

I admit this is difficult. I absolutely love my car, I stand behind Tesla and the big picture. There have been other issues where Tesla AT FIRST did not deliver what was promised, but so far they ALWAYS fixed it, it just took a while (for example torque sleep). I was silent with the performance issue as I was sure the "software update for performance at high speed" will fix it and give me what I paid for.

So I was shocked when that "free software update" now became a 5000$ + payment.

For the FIRST TIME Tesla does not deliver. I am very disappointed how this is handled by Tesla, very sad situation.

For all of you guys who accept that you get max 550 HP instead of 691 HP and are now willing to pay 5000 $ to get the 691 HP ( which you already paid for ), I am 100 % sure that on your daily life you frequently act different when it is not a Tesla.

I disagree but accept your opinion. However calling people who just demand the same fair standards for Tesla than for any other company "whiners, unfair,trouble maker, first world problem etc" is ridiculous.

+99

 

[darthy001]

@joer00 more or less exactly as I feel. I am somewhat amazed at how some people so blatantly dismiss the fact that Tesla has previously and continues to advertise/market their car with incorrect and/or misleading statements. I am also extremely disappointed in how Tesla has handled this. The car absolutely rocks, but Tesla the company is starting to look like a bunch of amateurs playing games.

What do you think happens if Tesla does the same for model 3 and actually sells 500k cars? I would assume a deathblow in the form of a class-action lawsuit in the US would be the end result there. Isnt it better to make sure Tesla learns to not falsely advertise now with minimal numbers of the P85D on the road?

 

[rays427]

The Road Test Summary from September 2015 Road and Track has some interesting information. The acceleration times are measured with the 1 foot rollout subtracted. So here are the 0-60 and 1/4 mile times. Tesla P85D (691hp 4933lb) 3.3 & 11.8, Viper (640hp 3364lb) 3.4 &11.6, Corvette Z06 (650hp 3536lb) 3.3 & 11.5, Nisan GTR (600hp & 3880lb) 2.8 &11.0, Mustang Shelby GT500 (662hp & 3850lb) 3.5 & 11.7, E63 AMG S (577hp 4640lb) 3.2 & 11.5). If you look at the numbers the Tesla does better than any of the two wheel drive cars when you factor in weight and HP. If you look at the Nissan which weighs more than 1000lb less than the Tesla with 600hp again the Tesla 691 hp looks reasonable. The AMG is the only car that looks better with 577hp and 300lb lighter than the Tesla. Based on the AMG with about the same 0-60 and 1/4 mile times it appears the Tesla would be equivalent to about 600hp. With the ICE cars it all depends on when there max hp matches the gear ratios. So two cars with the same hp and weight could have different acceleration times. Overall the Tesla look great compared to all these cars. So I don't have any problem with the cars performance. It makes the advertised 0-60 and 1/4 mile times as well as the other cars listed.

 

[darthy001]

The Road Test Summary from September 2015 Road and Track has some interesting information. The acceleration times are measured with the 1 foot rollout subtracted. So here are the 0-60 and 1/4 mile times. Tesla P85D (691hp 4933lb) 3.3 & 11.8, Viper (640hp 3364lb) 3.4 &11.6, Corvette Z06 (650hp 3536lb) 3.3 & 11.5, Nisan GTR (600hp & 3880lb) 2.8 &11.0, Mustang Shelby GT500 (662hp & 3850lb) 3.5 & 11.7, E63 AMG S (577hp 4640lb) 3.2 & 11.5). If you look at the numbers the Tesla does better than any of the two wheel drive cars when you factor in weight and HP. If you look at the Nissan which weighs more than 1000lb less than the Tesla with 600hp again the Tesla 691 hp looks reasonable. The AMG is the only car that looks better with 577hp and 300lb lighter than the Tesla. Based on the AMG with about the same 0-60 and 1/4 mile times it appears the Tesla would be equivalent to about 600hp. With the ICE cars it all depends on when there max hp matches the gear ratios. So two cars with the same hp and weight could have different acceleration times. Overall the Tesla look great compared to all these cars. So I don't have any problem with the cars performance. It makes the advertised 0-60 and 1/4 mile times as well as the other cars listed.

Makes the advertised 0-60 and 1/4-mile numbers in the US, but not in europe and other regions.

 

[martinwinlow]

Sorry, but as a Model S owner and share-holder I am at something of a loss to understand your motivation for creating this thread. OK, so the reality doesn't *quite* match the advertised specs (allegedly). The rest of the motoring world has been doing this for 100 years, especially in the area of fuel consumption, only much more flagrantly. Is everyone suing Ford because they can't get the MPG figures that Ford advertise? You say you are thrilled with your cars otherwise - why would want to do anything that would bad-mouth Tesla or help cause it to fail? Just shut up and enjoy your cars and just be really thankful that you can a/ drive one at all and b/ afford one. MW

 

[rns-e]

Sorry, but as a Model S owner and share-holder I am at something of a loss to understand your motivation for creating this thread. OK, so the reality doesn't *quite* match the advertised specs (allegedly). The rest of the motoring world has been doing this for 100 years, especially in the area of fuel consumption, only much more flagrantly. Is everyone suing Ford because they can't get the MPG figures that Ford advertise? You say you are thrilled with your cars otherwise - why would want to do anything that would bad-mouth Tesla or help cause it to fail? Just shut up and enjoy your cars and just be really thankful that you can a/ drive one at all and b/ afford one. MW

None of what you are saying makes it ok to lie about performance - none.

- - - Updated - - -

The Road Test Summary from September 2015 Road and Track has some interesting information. The acceleration times are measured with the 1 foot rollout subtracted. So here are the 0-60 and 1/4 mile times. Tesla P85D (691hp 4933lb) 3.3 & 11.8, Viper (640hp 3364lb) 3.4 &11.6, Corvette Z06 (650hp 3536lb) 3.3 & 11.5, Nisan GTR (600hp & 3880lb) 2.8 &11.0, Mustang Shelby GT500 (662hp & 3850lb) 3.5 & 11.7, E63 AMG S (577hp 4640lb) 3.2 & 11.5). If you look at the numbers the Tesla does better than any of the two wheel drive cars when you factor in weight and HP. If you look at the Nissan which weighs more than 1000lb less than the Tesla with 600hp again the Tesla 691 hp looks reasonable. The AMG is the only car that looks better with 577hp and 300lb lighter than the Tesla. Based on the AMG with about the same 0-60 and 1/4 mile times it appears the Tesla would be equivalent to about 600hp. With the ICE cars it all depends on when there max hp matches the gear ratios. So two cars with the same hp and weight could have different acceleration times. Overall the Tesla look great compared to all these cars. So I don't have any problem with the cars performance. It makes the advertised 0-60 and 1/4 mile times as well as the other cars listed.

3.3s 1 foot rollout is not 3.1s. MB claims 3.5s for E63 amg and they got 3.2 - excellent comparison

 

[AmpedRealtor]

Who has actually been damaged in any way by the small difference in 0-60 times? If 0-60 times were so absolutely critically important to your purchase decision, knowing that 0-60 times are difficult to match in other cars without a professional driver, why didn't you test that aspect of the car first before buying, or at least wait until the car was tested by the EU media? The way people are acting, that's the single most important aspect of the vehicle. Well, if that's true, why did you buy blindly?