Can More be Done For the Kids?

[PoitNarf]

What kind of parent leaves a kid alone in a car and walks off?

A distracted parent. An overwhelmed parent. And sadly sometimes a neglectful parent. Take a look at this infograph:
http://www.kidsandcars.org/wp-content/uploads/2019/03/heatstroke-19-map-1.pdf

888 child vehicular heatstroke deaths in the US from 1990-2018. What if the technology existed all the way back then in 1990 to prevent at least a portion of these deaths? We should condemn more children to a preventable death simply because you claim that a technological solution would strip us of intelligence and common sense? Right...

 

[cypho]

There is no excuse for leaving your kids in a parked car. But there is no preventing stupid. So if tesla can reduce the harm that stupid people inflict on their kids that is surely a good thing,.

Does the car have a microphone?(edit - of course it does: speakerphone uses it) Could the car turn the AC if it detects the sound of a child crying?

And also trigger an alert on the app? And also call the cops if the parent does not show up asap?

 

[ModelNforNerd]

Less than one month after it's released, I can see it now:

"Tesla baby reminder fails to remind dad to remove kid from car. He's suing Tesla."

Because that's how dumb and terrible we are as people. Not "man, I left my baby to die, how terrible am I?" no.....it will go straight to "why didn't you protect me from myself"


and THAT is why Tesla should never institute it. Some idiot will blow through all legal disclaimers, and try to get the car's logs and point to some error in code, instead of human error on their own part.

It's a damned if you do, damned if you don't situation for Tesla.


To paraphrase the great 1980s movie, WarGames: "..the only winning move is not to play."

 

[Gloor]

^ Precisely.

 

[Dan203]

The more people rely on technology the less they use their logic and common sense. Our parents didn't have all these gadgets and I dare to say that they are way more practical and versatile than the current generation that we are bringing up.

The statistics don’t agree with you. Technology has reduced accidental deaths in almost all areas.

This particular issue is one that hasn’t been addressed by technology and as such has resulted in zero improvement over the last 50 years. Tesla is in a unique situation to already have the sensors and technology in place to do something about it.

Although to be clear this only happens about 40 times a year, so this isn’t a huge issue relatively speaking. But if it's something they can do then why not? Even if it saves 1 it seems worth it to me.

 

[PoitNarf]

Less than one month after it's released, I can see it now:

"Tesla baby reminder fails to remind dad to remove kid from car. He's suing Tesla."

Because that's how dumb and terrible we are as people. Not "man, I left my baby to die, how terrible am I?" no.....it will go straight to "why didn't you protect me from myself"


and THAT is why Tesla should never institute it. Some idiot will blow through all legal disclaimers, and try to get the car's logs and point to some error in code, instead of human error on their own part.

It's a damned if you do, damned if you don't situation for Tesla.


To paraphrase the great 1980s movie, WarGames: "..the only winning move is not to play."

^ Precisely.

Ok, so let me get this straight. The two of you are making the argument that Tesla would eventually get sued over such a child heatstroke prevention feature due to potential failure of said feature and because no technology is immune to malfunction or failure this potential life saving feature shouldn’t be implemented at all? Do I have that right?

 

[ModelNforNerd]

Ok, so let me get this straight. The two of you are making the argument that Tesla would eventually get sued over such a child heatstroke prevention feature due to potential failure of said feature and because no technology is immune to malfunction or failure this potential life saving feature shouldn’t be implemented at all? Do I have that right?

Yes. Be a grown up. THAT'S what I'm advocating for.

I'm pro-kid, anti-terrible parent.

Call me a monster, I'm ok with that. I'll call the person who leaves their kids in the car and then has the audacity to sue the OEM a monster.

 

[C141medic]

It's weird that you'd buy a car with so many active safety features if they upset you so much.
In the real world people make mistakes.

I totally agree. We all make mistakes as human beings. However; leaving a child in a hot car can not and should not be considered a “mistake.” Leaving a cup of coffee on the roof of your car is a mistake. Forgetting your wallet is a mistake. Obviously it happens, perhaps some type of electronic sensor would be helpful but not sure if it would solve the problem?
I also understand that some people may be stressed out or tired but there are solutions to deal with those issues. It’s called taking responsibility for your self and dealing with your issues. That’s what makes us responsible adults.
It’s very tragic and in my opinion the parent(s) shouldn’t be prosecuted (unless of course it was malicious).

 

[SSonnentag]

Nobody is advocating for parents to stop taking responsibility for their children. Part of being responsible is to utilize any and all tips, tricks, reminders, strings around fingers, alarms, etc. in an effort to ensure the smallest possible chance of making that one fatal mistake as a parent. Using some of the above logic makes as much sense as removing child seats and seat belts as parents should know better than to drive their kids into dangerous situations. It's not like parents are intentionally leaving kids in vehicles. Using tech for safety is in addition to common sense and good parenting, not instead of.

There are teenagers out there in the world with kids. Granted, they aren't likely to be driving Teslas, but they are raising kids. No common sense or they wouldn't have kids at their age in the first place, and no parental training. Likely they had pretty crummy parents of their own to learn from. Any tech advantage to help save lives can only be a good thing.

 

[North75]

Never said it hasn't.

Anyway, read the post above yours. Its a great example how dumb the society is these days and some still want it dumber.

I agree that is an unfortunate aspect of American culture. I'm curious what the protection the law offers (if any) for genuine attempts at safety that might fail or get misused. I would think gross negligence on Tesla's part would need to be proved.

I still don't know why you would be against Tesla implementing an easy software feature that could do good.

 

[SSonnentag]

I totally agree. We all make mistakes as human beings. However; leaving a child in a hot car can not and should not be considered a “mistake.” Leaving a cup of coffee on the roof of your car is a mistake. Forgetting your wallet is a mistake. Obviously it happens, perhaps some type of electronic sensor would be helpful but not sure if it would solve the problem?
I also understand that some people may be stressed out or tired but there are solutions to deal with those issues. It’s called taking responsibility for your self and dealing with your issues. That’s what makes us responsible adults.
It’s very tragic and in my opinion the parent(s) shouldn’t be prosecuted (unless of course it was malicious).

Why is it that you think only kids of "good" parents should have a chance at survival? Why not give "bad" parents some assistance in an effort to help their kids survive?

 

[SSonnentag]

Prosecuting a parent for neglect will do nothing beneficial for the neglected or dead child. Tech is available and should be uses to PREVENT tragedies where possible.

 

[C141medic]

Why is it that you think only kids of "good" parents should have a chance at survival? Why not give "bad" parents some assistance in an effort to help their kids survive?

I never categorized parents as “good” or “bad” so I’m not sure where you’re getting that from. I’m for a device, sensor, alarm, or whatever it may be if it’ll truly help with the issue of kids, pets, or whatever left in a hot car.

 

[lotusland]

As a parent myself, I don't think this issue is a simple case of responsibility. Many parents switch out driving duties and kids fall asleep in the car all the time. People get locked into routines. For the most part it's an accident when this happens, an accident that the parent(and child) will never recover from. Anyone posting here that this is different from any other accident has most likely not seen one of these parents interviewed. If you had I don't think you would be so quick to assert your mental superiority. Of course Tesla should apply technology where it can to prevent this.

 

[Gloor]

Ok, so let me get this straight. The two of you are making the argument that Tesla would eventually get sued over such a child heatstroke prevention feature due to potential failure of said feature and because no technology is immune to malfunction or failure this potential life saving feature shouldn’t be implemented at all? Do I have that right?

Just like Tesla gets sued for Autopilot deaths. People don't take responsibility. Its that simple.
The autopilot is actually a great example as we already have cases where people sue Tesla for it. Hence the conversation here.

 

[Daniel in SD]

Just like Tesla gets sued for Autopilot deaths. People don't take responsibility. Its that simple.
The autopilot is actually a great example as we already have cases where people sue Tesla for it. Hence the conversation here.

I would argue that Autopilot isn't a safety feature. Thousands of Teslas are crashed a year and no one sues over automatic emergency braking, emergency lane departure avoidance, front collision warning, blind spot monitoring, etc. and it's not because those systems work 100% of the time.

 

[dlinsley]

My 2017 GMC Acadia gives me a visual and audible warning to check the back seats when exiting the car after opening and closing the rear doors prior to that drive. This isn't rocket science or obtrusive and I bet it doesn't cost that much. As a grandparent with two little one who travel in car seats, I'm grateful for that extra reminder.

My Bolt had this feature too, easily turned on and off in the settings. Just a simple prompt (voice too I think), no need for anything fancy from sensors. I never used it myself, as my kids are old enough to get in and out themselves.

I don't get the hostility in this thread. Don't make this about parents, consider it from the point of view of the child who has no agency here.

 

[PoitNarf]

I’m pretty surprised at those that are against a safety feature that could and most likely would save the lives of children. I hope no TMC member ever has to deal with a tragedy such as this. It’s likely just a matter of time before such child detection tech becomes required safety equipment in new vehicles much like back up cameras recently become a mandatory standard feature on all new cars and trucks. Anyway, I’m unwatching this thread now for my own mental health.

 

[Gloor]

I would argue that Autopilot isn't a safety feature. Thousands of Teslas are crashed a year and no one sues over automatic emergency braking, emergency lane departure avoidance, front collision warning, blind spot monitoring, etc. and it's not because those systems work 100% of the time.

Tesla hit with another lawsuit over a fatal Autopilot crash

just one example

 

[Gloor]

I think there is a confusion about the conversation angles here. Its not that those that oppose (myself included) don't want the safety features. Its what those safety features will eventually cause. People will pay less attention, they get used to it here but then they go somewhere where the feature is missing or its not there and more accidents will happen. This is not helpful solution.
The more automation/notification etc. you introduce to average person the more likely they are going to "switch off" and pay less attention.
The autopilot is a great example here. People die using it because they "switch off" and don't pay attention and then accidents happen. Those that died from autopilot will most likely be alive if they didn't have the feature in the first place because they would have to pay attention on the road 100% of the time.
People are not responsible and that is the angle I tried (and some others) explain.