CCS Adapter for North America

[MP3Mike]

The above seems to indicate as long as your station is above 600 kW total, you would be fine, so the issues brought up by @MP3Mike would not be an issue if that were the case. That would be more in line with how other federal standards are done (for example subsidized broadband, the speeds may be lower when there is higher congestion).

That doesn't line up with what you quoted from the Federal Register:

(d) Power level. (1) Maximum power per DCFC charging port must be at or above 150 kilowatt (kW). Each charging station must be capable of providing at least 150 kW per charging port simultaneously across all charging ports. DCFC must supply power according to an EV's power delivery request up to 150 kW. DCFC may participate in smart charge management programs so long as each charging port continues to meet an Electric Vehicle's request for power up to 150 kW.

It also mentions that the smart charge management must always provide at least 150kW if the car requests it.

I couldn't find the actual law section, so really it comes down to how the actual wording in the law says. If someone has a direct link, please post.

Didn't you link to it? The Federal Register is the official requirements.

And it seems that Tesla MagicDock idea wouldn't comply:

c) Connector type. All non-proprietary charging connectors must meet applicable industry standards. Each DCFC charging port must have a permanently attached Combined Charging System (CCS) Type 1 connector and must charge any CCS-compliant vehicle.

Well, unless of course the cable has the CCS1 connector on it and the MagicDock adapter converts it to the Tesla connector. (Which I doubt they would do.)

 

[Mockingbird]

And it seems that Tesla MagicDock idea wouldn't comply:



Well, unless of course the cable has the CCS1 connector on it and the MagicDock adapter converts it to the Tesla connector. (Which I doubt they would do.)

What it means is that requiring the public to bring the TPC to CCS adapter wouldn't comply with the requirement, but that having the adapter affixed to the charging station itself would meet the requirement.

Now, I don't know how this TPC to CCS adapter would work since CCS vehicles don't understand TPC protocol.

 

[bradtem]

It says this in the register:

OK, so this is more detailed that the other government page I read and is authoritative. So that's a shame -- why we don't have chargers designed by the government, ideally.

So I would recommend to Tesla that they can either indeed designate 4 stalls as "always 150K if you can handle it" and the other stalls get less. That's a software change. It does mean that in certain situations, which I think will be rare, the other stalls will under-deliver what people would like. It would be good to have data on just how often that really is. It might be rare enough that nobody cares a lot, and then we don't have to fuss.

That leaves some options still open:

1. The 4 150K-assured stalls cost more. Either per kwh or by requiring a membership card with a monthly fee. (Possibly included with Teslas.)
2. Those 4 stalls are just busy because many people take them first.
3. Tesla pulls tricks to direct cars that won't take 150kw for long to those stalls when it can. (This of course requires the addition of a function in the Tesla screen and app to suggest a charging stall to you when you arrive.) As a result, having all 4 draw 150K is even more rare.
4. Tesla just increases total power at the station so that the problem goes away. As long as the extra cost of this is less than the grant money, it's still a win.

It would be interesting to see how various forms of "costs more" would affect usage. Some people with more money than time would always pay the extra, even when it's not going to get you much. And perversely, it might mean that when the station is empty, people start with the non-assured stalls. After all, if you come up to a charger with 8 stalls, 4 of which are 150K assured, and there are less than 4 people there, you will choose the lower-grade stall, because it's cheaper and you will get 150kw anyway since only 4 people are there. So the slower stalls would fill up first in that situation. Only after they fill would people pick the guaranteed rate stalls. (maybe no surcharge for Tesla drivers if they take these stalls when the low-rate stalls are full.)

As such, it could be that only when the station is entirely full do the low-rate stalls actually get a low rate.

 

[MP3Mike]

What it means is that requiring the public to bring the TPC to CCS adapter wouldn't comply with the requirement, but that having the adapter affixed to the charging station itself would meet the requirement.

No, that would not be permanently attached unless they go with a weird interpretation of the regulations. It also mentions that there can be permanently attached proprietary connectors. It seems like they are saying no use of site supplied adapters, which makes lots of sense in terms of reliability. (You have to have a CCS cable, but there can be a proprietary cable as well if you want.)

 

[Jeff N]

So I would recommend to Tesla that they can either indeed designate 4 stalls as "always 150K if you can handle it" and the other stalls get less. That's a software change. It does mean that in certain situations, which I think will be rare, the other stalls will under-deliver what people would like. It would be good to have data on just how often that really is. It might be rare enough that nobody cares a lot, and then we don't have to fuss.

That leaves some options still open:….

Tesla should just do it the EA way: if more than 2 CCS cars are charging and a 3rd plugs in then stall the 3rd car with an initiation error a couple of times, stop charging the first CCS car with a “session error”, reduce the charging rate on the 2nd car for thermal reasons, and finally begin charging the new car at full rate…. until another car shows up. Shuffle and repeat.

 

[Mockingbird]

No, that would not be permanently attached unless they go with a weird interpretation of the regulations. It also mentions that there can be permanently attached proprietary connectors. It seems like they are saying no use of site supplied adapters, which makes lots of sense in terms of reliability. (You have to have a CCS cable, but there can be a proprietary cable as well if you want.)

It is permanently attached.

The public can't just come and take the magic dock or whatever it is called.

 

[Earl]

For the purpose of educating myself n not doing this (i'd hate that to happen to me), how much can 2016 MX 90D pull?

I can't speak for a MX 90D but I can speak for a MS 90 D of about that age: I was able to pull 139 KW for 468 MPH charging for a short amount of time on a V3 last week. For reference, I was able to pull 250KW for 1035 MPH charging with an M3LR RWD.

Luckily, there aren't many Supercharger sites with both V2 an V3 stations that I know of. I only know of Kettleman City CA, Hawthorne CA (now closed), and Beaver UT.

 

[Webeevdrivers]

Note that the right thing to do is not to have special stalls. The only reason to have special stalls would be if the states (or feds) say that it is required by a very strict reading of the NEVI rules.

Once CCS adapters become widely available, CCS drivers are going to have to expect that their stations are going to be crowded with Teslas. Teslas are 3/4 of all EVs, and I think they are a larger chunk of road tripping EVs because they are much better at road trips. I don't think they will be surprised to see that Tesla stations are also crowded with Teslas.

In looking at Plugshare, I noticed that for CHAdeMO stations, the majority of check-ins were from Teslas with adapters, even though very few Tesla owners had this adapter. And now, even though only a few people have CCS adapters via Korea or SETEC, I am seeing CCS stations which are getting dominated by Teslas!

Yah I get that. But right now the 3rd party CCS adapters are selling fast. We bought one of the A2Z units. Built well. Works great. I think there website shows they have sold around 4000 already. This will take some pressure off the supercharger network too.

 

[honoraryorange]

Sometimes it pays to have the CCS adapter. No idea why this station was free when I pulled up, but it had a message saying "This charge is on us" at a Walmart.

 

[stopcrazypp]

That doesn't line up with what you quoted from the Federal Register:



It also mentions that the smart charge management must always provide at least 150kW if the car requests it.


Didn't you link to it? The Federal Register is the official requirements.

It's not, it says it's still open to comments, and doesn't match the guidelines the states have put out for NEVI that I linked. I was asking more for what it actually says in the law section related to this (it should be part of USC whatever).

And it seems that Tesla MagicDock idea wouldn't comply:

Well, unless of course the cable has the CCS1 connector on it and the MagicDock adapter converts it to the Tesla connector. (Which I doubt they would do.)

As another pointed out, it only says the connector must be permanently attached. If the adapter is permanently attached to the stall (which it sounds like the magic dock is), then it seems it should be fine (reading it seems even the default mode is CCS and disconnect to TPC is the secondary mode). I guess we'll see how it'll be implemented. In worse case it'll be like the CHAdeMO to TPC dock that EVgo uses (and would have a CCS cable). I find it hard to believe it won't meet regulations as a person can charge with CCS just fine with it. Saying it must be a separate connector completely (which it doesn't specify directly) seems like it would increase implementation costs for no reason (given a stall can't charge two cars simultaneously anyways).

 

[RTPEV]

Sometimes it pays to have the CCS adapter. No idea why this station was free when I pulled up, but it had a message saying "This charge is on us" at a Walmart.

View attachment 849074

Happy Labor Day (they do this during many holidays)

 

[RTPEV]

Luckily, there aren't many Supercharger sites with both V2 an V3 stations that I know of. I only know of Kettleman City CA, Hawthorne CA (now closed), and Beaver UT.

+Raleigh, NC

 

[threeputts]

Luckily, there aren't many Supercharger sites with both V2 an V3 stations that I know of. I only know of Kettleman City CA, Hawthorne CA (now closed), and Beaver UT.

There are some around Chicago but all the ones I’ve seen have lots of total pedestals.

 

[DeepBlueMN]

Luckily, there aren't many Supercharger sites with both V2 an V3 stations that I know of. I only know of Kettleman City CA, Hawthorne CA (now closed), and Beaver UT.

Dual V2/V3 sites are showing more often now as older V2 sites get expanded. There are ones in CO, AZ, and NM; and those are just the ones I have been to recently.

 

[israndy]

Yeah, there's a TON more than you seem to know. Baker, Mojave, Harris Ranch, San Francisco come immediately to mind.

 

[brainhouston]

Cool, now that i know i will go to V2 for sure n let ya all with new cars use V3
Also from youtube i've learned how to tell them apart by A/B n thick cable vs A/B/C/D n skinny cable.

 

[Earl]

Cool, now that i know i will go to V2 for sure n let ya all with new cars use V3
Also from youtube i've learned how to tell them apart by A/B n thick cable vs A/B/C/D n skinny cable.

Don't worry too much about being the nice guy though. You can and, IMHO, should, take advantage of the non-paired nature of the V3s. As I pointed out, it may suck for us but you have just as much right to use the V3 as a Model 3 or Y do and they may get you on your way faster than a shared V2. It really isn't a huge deal and I, for one, will never blame you, only the situation. I wish all Superchargers were V3 and, some day, most will be.

there's a TON more than you seem to know

I would believe that. The last couple of years have been very busy for me and I haven't been road-tripping around the USA as much while things have clearly been improving and a wonderfully fast rate.

 

[wws]

Yeah, there's a TON more than you seem to know. Baker, Mojave, Harris Ranch, San Francisco come immediately to mind.

Winnemucca.

 

[MorrisonHiker]

I'm sure this is either due to price or convenience... But its like a gas station, u can't discriminate by the type of car


For the purpose of educating myself n not doing this (i'd hate that to happen to me), how much can 2016 MX 90D pull?

I know I was able to reach at least 145 kW on my S90D on a v2 Supercharger, before v3 Superchargers came out. I've been able to hit 187 kW on it at a v3 Supercharger so I'd think your MX 90D could get somewhere between 145 kW and 187 kW on a v3 Supercharger under the right conditions.

My 2022 Model S can charge up to the 250 kW limit. We've charged at over "1050 mph" for a short time but the display still showed a max of 250 kW.

 

[MorrisonHiker]

I know I was able to reach at least 145 kW on my S90D on a v2 Supercharger, before v3 Superchargers came out. I've been able to hit 187 kW on it at a v3 Supercharger so I'd think your MX 90D could get somewhere between 145 kW and 187 kW on a v3 Supercharger under the right conditions.

My 2022 Model S can charge up to the 250 kW limit. We've charged at over "1050 mph" for a short time but the display still showed a max of 250 kW.

Looks like I accidentally deleted the sentence about upgrading from an S90D to an S100D. The S100D is the car that reached 187 kW.