CCS Adapter for North America

[SpaceShipDrvr]

It is way more useful than that. Any stop you make is a good 5 - 7X less time than L2. As a supplement to when Superchargers are not available (or some distance away) it is valuable .... so long as the charger is operational.

Is CCS superior to CHAdeMO ? In general, of course. But until I have a CCS adapter I'm very glad to have a CHAdeMO adapter.

Same here... I was able to find a CHAdeMO adapter, and I got it for peace of mind when road tripping. An expensive peace of mind, but still...
If you need it, 50kw is a heck of a lot better than the 5-10kw you will see at most L2 chargers.

That of course assumes that the charger is operational and you can get the payment to work - in my quick tests it took several attempts to establish charging. I hope the experience will be better when the CCS adapter arrives, but you'll still be dealing with various charging networks that seem to compete on having the lowest charging success. But I'll still buy one an adapter once it arrives, to complete my "infiniti gauntlet" of charging adapters.

 

[SageBrush]

An expensive peace of mind, but still

I found two other people in my city through FB who agreed to a group purchase. We also were fortunate to find the adapter being sold for a low price. In 6 months, so far none of us three have used it for other than testing, but I did lend it out one time to a friend. No one in Albuquerque has been interested in its inexpensive rental.

For my usage, it awaits trips to Colorado and perhaps Carlsbad Caverns.

 

[lynyrdM]

I almost use my Chademo adapter more than I supercharge. I need a small top up for my frequent round trip of driving from Tulsa to OKC, so I use the Edmond OnCue Chargepoint which only costs 18¢ per kWH.

It’s an absolute bargain compared to using Francis which is now $1 per session plus 39¢ a minute and much cheaper than supercharging too. Full speed charging with the CCS adapter changes the math a lot for Francis though making it a much better alternative than the crazy expense it is now.

 

[Mockingbird]

I just read the memorandum that the US Department of Transportation released today.

CCS is mandated.

CHAdeMO wasn't mention

The Secretary will not certify a State’s designated Alternative Fuel Corridors for electric vehicles as being “fully built out” until the Secretary finds that the State’s corridors meet the following
criteria:

- EV charging infrastructure is installed every 50 miles along the State’s portions of the Interstate Highway System within 1 travel mile of the Interstate, unless a discretionary
exception has been granted;

- EV charging infrastructure includes at least four 150kW Direct Current (DC) Fast Chargers with Combined Charging System (CCS) ports capable of simultaneously DC charging four EVs;

- EV charging infrastructure has minimum station power capability at or above 600kW and supports at least 150kW per port simultaneously across four ports for charging; and

- Such additional considerations deemed necessary and appropriate by the Secretary of Transportation
.

 

[stopcrazypp]

I just read the memorandum that the US Department of Transportation released today.

CCS is mandated.

CHAdeMO wasn't mention

It also says it only needs four minimum, not that all the stalls need to be CCS or that there needs to be a specified ratio:
"EV charging infrastructure includes at least four 150kW Direct Current (DC) Fast Chargers with Combined Charging System (CCS) ports capable of simultaneously DC charging four EVs"

That seems pretty easy for Tesla to exploit. Just install four CCS chargers per supercharger station (or even dual head stalls) and piggy back off the transformer costs (so even if the grant does not fund the portion with TPC-only stalls, Tesla gets a bulk of the advantage). Not a whole lot different than some of the stations Tesla has done before somewhere (forgot where, they had a few CCS chargers and a lot more superchargers).

Found the link. It was the program in Canada where they had Flo chargers. The requirement there was a specific ratio: 25% generic, 75% allowed to be proprietary. It seems Tesla installed 3-4 Flo chargers per station depending on how many stalls they had.
Setec CCS to Tesla Adapter

 

[ItsNotAboutTheMoney]

I just read the memorandum that the US Department of Transportation released today.

CCS is mandated.

CHAdeMO wasn't mention

Not really mandated. Just that CCS will be used in determining "fully-built out".

Doesn't affect Tesla at all, other than potentially denying them subisdy. By contrast in Europe, CCS was a specified as standard, and some countries, including Germany had laws that would have stopped new Superchargers being built.

CHAdeMO was already moribund in the US, as it is in Europe, with Nissan ditching it from their Ariyawn, and no serious new EVs having it.

 

[Mockingbird]

It also says it only needs four minimum, not that all the stalls need to be CCS or that there needs to be a specified ratio:
"EV charging infrastructure includes at least four 150kW Direct Current (DC) Fast Chargers with Combined Charging System (CCS) ports capable of simultaneously DC charging four EVs"

That seems pretty easy for Tesla to exploit. Just install four CCS chargers per supercharger station and piggy back off the transformer costs (so even if the grant does not fund the supercharger stall portion, Tesla gets a bulk of the advantage). Not a whole lot different than some of the stations Tesla has done before somewhere (forgot where, they had a few CCS chargers and a lot more superchargers).

Sure, Tesla apply for a grant to install 4 CCS and 96 TPC.

You have to remember though that other providers will be competing for the same grant.

 

[Mockingbird]

Not really mandated. Just that CCS will be used in determining "fully-built out".

The states are not going to be awarding grants that doesn't sastify the Alternative Fuel Corridors requirements.

 

[ItsNotAboutTheMoney]

The states are not going to be awarding grants that doesn't sastify the Alternative Fuel Corridors requirements.

That means that there won't be grants. That's not a mandate, it's a set of rules for subsidies.

They've cutting Tesla off from getting a piece of the Federal subsidy pie. Makes it harder for them to compete, but it's not anywhere near as restrictive as the mandates in some European countries.

Of course, they could always have dual-cable stalls, as they had at some sites in Europe.

 

[Mockingbird]

That means that there won't be grants. That's not a mandate, it's a set of rules for subsidies.

They've cutting Tesla off from getting a piece of the Federal subsidy pie. Makes it harder for them to compete, but it's not anywhere near as restrictive as the mandates in some European countries.

To even get the money, each state has to submit a plan as to how the state would meet the requirements set by the federal government/department of transportation.

So no, there won't be grants that don't meet the requirements.

Of course, they could always have dual-cable stalls, as they had at some sites in Europe.

Sure, that would meet the requirements.

 

[bradtem]

I found two other people in my city through FB who agreed to a group purchase. We also were fortunate to find the adapter being sold for a low price. In 6 months, so far none of us three have used it for other than testing, but I did lend it out one time to a friend. No one in Albuquerque has been interested in its inexpensive rental.

For my usage, it awaits trips to Colorado and perhaps Carlsbad Caverns.

I also planned to form a club to own my CdM adapter, but I sold it before I got around to it. I used it on a couple of roadtrips. It was absolutely essential for the first trip (a 5,000 mile trip through BC which had few superchargers last year) and also essential for a smaller trip that had a leg where CdM chargers were closer to the endpoints.

But I have also "used" it a lot without using it. The value of this adapter is peace of mind, like having a bigger battery. The reason is that there is often a DC Fast station 20 miles closer to you than the supercharger, or more. That's like 20 miles more range, but even better, it's the ability to say, "well, I can make the supercharger, but I feel like doing this detour, and if I do it, I might not make the supercharger but the DC Fast is there for me." So you get that freedom, and one of the very few things your Tesla loses to an ICE (road trips far from superchargers) is reduced. Yay.

As it turns out, you often find you will make the supercharger anyway. You didn't have to use your DC Fast adapter. But you didn't have to care. Worth it.

I will buy the CCS adapter when I can get it, even though I probably have to pay $200 extra to get the charge controller for it. Can't share that in a club, and the $200 adapter is cheap enough to not need a club as well.

 

[SageBrush]

That seems pretty easy for Tesla to exploit. Just install four CCS chargers per supercharger station (or even dual head stalls) and piggy back off the transformer costs (so even if the grant does not fund the portion with TPC-only stalls, Tesla gets a bulk of the advantage). Not a whole lot different than some of the stations Tesla has done before somewhere (forgot where, they had a few CCS chargers and a lot more superchargers).

Exactly. And since the run of the mill CCS installer has been submitting outrageous bids, Tesla saves the state money and still makes out like a bandit while growing the Supercharger network at low cost.

 

[kilpatds]

Finally got the EVHub adapter. Used it, it worked.

I pulled into the charger at about 55%, with the battery temp being around 110. (Was navigating to a supercharger elsewhere to enable pre-heating, but wasn't that far from home for that to have been able to get things up to temp, and the traffic was too heavy to yo-yo the car). Electrify America charger, don't know which brand of unit. It ramped up to about 79kW pretty quickly and that was the max. Never pulled more than 205 amps.

Given SoC and battery temps, I think that's about what I'd have gotten at a supercharger?

15 minutes later at ~73% I unplugged.

The Tesla seems to do the CCS handshake faster than most other cars: if everything went that fast, CCS charging would be much less annoying. I used the EA-suggested "plug in first, then swipe in app" approach, which may mask some of the handshake time?

Anyway.... anyone want a very lightly used CHAdeMO adapter?

 

[kayak1]

Finally got the EVHub adapter. Used it, it worked.
View attachment 767831View attachment 767832
I pulled into the charger at about 55%, with the battery temp being around 110. (Was navigating to a supercharger elsewhere to enable pre-heating, but wasn't that far from home for that to have been able to get things up to temp, and the traffic was too heavy to yo-yo the car). Electrify America charger, don't know which brand of unit. It ramped up to about 79kW pretty quickly and that was the max. Never pulled more than 205 amps.

Given SoC and battery temps, I think that's about what I'd have gotten at a supercharger?

15 minutes later at ~73% I unplugged.

The Tesla seems to do the CCS handshake faster than most other cars: if everything went that fast, CCS charging would be much less annoying. I used the EA-suggested "plug in first, then swipe in app" approach, which may mask some of the handshake time?

Anyway.... anyone want a very lightly used CHAdeMO adapter?

View attachment 767833

Great news. I look forward to the official Tesla version. Any idea if you can set up plug and charge?

 

[kilpatds]

Great news. I look forward to the official Tesla version. Any idea if you can set up plug and charge?

I've seen nothing that indicates plug&charge is supported. (Dear EA: "autocharge": just associate the car's MAC to my account and charge it automagically, m'kay?)

 

[Y_4_speed]

Finally got the EVHub adapter. Used it, it worked.
View attachment 767831View attachment 767832
I pulled into the charger at about 55%, with the battery temp being around 110. (Was navigating to a supercharger elsewhere to enable pre-heating, but wasn't that far from home for that to have been able to get things up to temp, and the traffic was too heavy to yo-yo the car). Electrify America charger, don't know which brand of unit. It ramped up to about 79kW pretty quickly and that was the max. Never pulled more than 205 amps.

Given SoC and battery temps, I think that's about what I'd have gotten at a supercharger?

15 minutes later at ~73% I unplugged.

The Tesla seems to do the CCS handshake faster than most other cars: if everything went that fast, CCS charging would be much less annoying. I used the EA-suggested "plug in first, then swipe in app" approach, which may mask some of the handshake time?

Anyway.... anyone want a very lightly used CHAdeMO adapter?

View attachment 767833

Fantastic. Looks really solid. How long did it take to get the adapter?

 

[kilpatds]

Fantastic. Looks really solid. How long did it take to get the adapter?

So ... my experience there is unlikely to be your experience, but also "Uh ... there's some news about the Ukraine? and ... I'd expect that news to impact everything?"

It took me months, because the 1st one I ordered with slow shipping, and it took ~2 months to cross the ocean before finally getting back into the mail system. The 2nd try took ~2.5 weeks. Basically: 2 days on their side to get out of customers, and 3 days on our side to get through USPS... and however long it takes to cross the ocean. If you are gonna buy one, budget for the expedited shipping. (and still expect to wait 3 weeks)

 

[Mockingbird]

Great news. I look forward to the official Tesla version. Any idea if you can set up plug and charge?

The way plug and charge works is that you would set up a payment method (i.e. credit card) with your vehicle's manufacturer (i.e. Ford, Porsche).

The charging network (i.e. Electrify America, Greenlots) would then sent the bill to your vehicle's manufacturer (i.e. Ford, Porsche) who then charges you using the payment method that is on file (i.e. credit card).

Since Tesla probably hasn't set up a backend to accept bills from other charging networks, plug and charge probably wouldn't work.

 

[lynyrdM]

The way plug and charge works is that you would set up a payment method (i.e. credit card) with your vehicle's manufacturer (i.e. Ford, Porsche).

The charging network (i.e. Electrify America, Greenlots) would then sent the bill to your vehicle's manufacturer (i.e. Ford, Porsche) who then charges you using the payment method that is on file (i.e. credit card).

Since Tesla probably hasn't set up a backend to accept bills from other charging networks, plug and charge probably wouldn't work.

I like what Kilpatds suggested with Autocharge. It just uses the MAC address of your charge port for authentication and jumps to charging super fast. I’ve seen how long the Plug and Charge handshake takes and it’s pretty slow. Autocharge is way faster and works with almost any CCS EV.

Bjorn video on Autocharge

 

[kilpatds]

I don't know the details of plug&charge, but I can't imagine that anything core with the protocol is that slow. My guess is the slowness is making sure the account is valid given multiple players.

There's a solution for that too: bloom filters. Assuming there's some form of id or signature you can get quickly via the protocol, you form a kinda bitwise mushed-together map of all valid IDs... There can be false hits (invalid IDs that match incorrectly), but you can play with the size of the munged map to reduce the odds of a false hit.

Make the munged map centrally every night, push to chargers at night. When someone plugs in... speculatively start charging them while you wait for the official answer. If it's a false hit or their account closed overnight, you're out the tiny amount of electricity from when you started to when you noticed. Oh noosss....the horror.

Autocharge is spoofable, but... I doubt that's a real problem in practice. No one's gonna do that much work for that little electricity... And Plug&Charge is gonna be fully deployed in 5ish years