CCS Adapter for North America

[RichAZ/CapeCod]

I can't speak to @RayK's case, but there are times when a ~50kW maximum charge rate is preferable to a ~250kW maximum charge rate. ...

Hmmm, I'm of the belief that a person can't be too thin, too rich or charge their EV too quickly!!

Rich

 

[texas_star_TM3]

Ah I guess there is use case to charge slower….

In fact, 50kw is well below 1c for most Tesla cars, so it is also healthier for the battery.

I hope they let you limit kw for DCFC to 50kw, but of course they would like you to charge as fast as possible and be gone as soon as possible

Hell NO !! nothing more entitled than blocking a fast charger and wanting to dial back the charge rate to block it as long as possible .... forget about blocking a stall - i want to preserve my battery ...

 

[tps5352]

Hmmm, I'm of the belief that a person can't be too thin, too rich or charge their EV too quickly!!

Rich

Ha! Yes.

I feel that way about range. Awhile back, Elon made some comment about not needing a 500-mile range. (I think to justify the cancellation of the Model S Plaid+?)

I strongly disagree (w/EM). The sooner all electric cars routinely achieve a 400-500-mile range, they better. (And full charging that only takes 10 minutes. Yes.)

 

[generalmilk]

Hell NO !! nothing more entitled than blocking a fast charger and wanting to dial back the charge rate to block it as long as possible .... forget about blocking a stall - i want to preserve my battery ...

There is no one to block for an empty station.

Hell NO !! nothing more entitled than blocking a fast charger and wanting to dial back the charge rate to block it as long as possible .... forget about blocking a stall - i want to preserve my battery ...

Then you should talk to the guys in previous posts who prefer Chademo to CCS.

 

[srs5694]

There is no one to block for an empty station.

Then you should talk to the guys in previous posts who prefer Chademo to CCS.

To be clear, most CHAdeMO connectors are limited to 50 kW. (I've seen 100 kW CHAdeMO connectors, but they're pretty rare.) Even the CCS plugs on stalls that also have CHAdeMO usually max out in the 50-150 kW range. Thus, somebody who uses a 50 kW CHAdeMO station because it's slower than CCS or a Tesla Supercharger isn't "hogging" a resource; they're just picking the resource that's running at the speed they want.

 

[generalmilk]

To be clear, most CHAdeMO connectors are limited to 50 kW. (I've seen 100 kW CHAdeMO connectors, but they're pretty rare.) Even the CCS plugs on stalls that also have CHAdeMO usually max out in the 50-150 kW range. Thus, somebody who uses a 50 kW CHAdeMO station because it's slower than CCS or a Tesla Supercharger isn't "hogging" a resource; they're just picking the resource that's running at the speed they want.

It’s gonna block the stall from charging 150kw with CCS, while you also have the ability to charge with CCS, how is that different?

 

[srs5694]

Hmmm, I'm of the belief that a person can't be too thin, too rich or charge their EV too quickly!!

• Research anorexia.
• "It is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than for a rich person to enter the Kingdom of God!" (Luke 18:25)
  • I don't mean to open a theological debate here, and I'm not attempting to endorse any particular religion. This does happen to be a rather succinct statement of a common belief about wealth, though.

As to EV charging, if EVs could be charged in seconds, then sure, that'd be better than the current situation. That's not the case, though -- at least not today. It takes tens of minutes to charge from, say, 10% to 80%, and most people want to do something during that time. If that activity (eating, say) takes longer than the charger takes, then the charge is too quick. The driver is left with the choice of staying plugged in (possibly incurring idle fees) and interrupting the meal to move the car.

All I'm saying is that EV charging infrastructure should be available at a range of speeds to accommodate different needs. A ~30-minute charge is a good speed for some purposes, but for others, ~45 or ~60 minutes might be better; and for others, ~15 minutes or faster would be better.

It’s gonna block the stall from charging 150wh with CCS, while you also have the ability to charge with CCS, how is that different?

• As I noted, and as you ignored, many CHAdeMO-equipped stalls have a 50 kW limit even on the CCS plug.
• Because of charge tapering, the difference between 50 kW and 150 kW isn't all that huge.
• Most stations aren't at capacity most of the time, so it's usually not a big deal. Of course, at a high-usage site, this won't be true.
• If there's no difference in usage time, but if using the 50 kW option is cheaper (because of no idle fees), then there's a monetary difference to the driver.

 

[STS-134]

Hell NO !! nothing more entitled than blocking a fast charger and wanting to dial back the charge rate to block it as long as possible .... forget about blocking a stall - i want to preserve my battery ...

Then charge on AC/level 2 and use your car's OBC.

 

[Hayseed_MS]

Two part question:
1) What about battery preconditioning when using a non-Tesla DC charger?
2) Is battery preconditioning really a benefit when having been driving the car for a while on a trip?

 

[Metaljug]

Two part question:
1) What about battery preconditioning when using a non-Tesla DC charger?
2) Is battery preconditioning really a benefit when having been driving the car for a while on a trip?

1) You input the closest Tesla super charger station to your CCS station. Proceed to the CCS station while the car preconditions.
2) Yes/Maybe, Tesla preconditions the car during trips too when you route it to the super charger.

 

[Dirtman16]

Two part question:
1) What about battery preconditioning when using a non-Tesla DC charger?
2) Is battery preconditioning really a benefit when having been driving the car for a while on a trip?

It definitely makes a difference in the winter. Battery can cool off substantially over a couple of hours of driving.

 

[Exelion]

Because of charge tapering, the difference between 50 kW and 150 kW isn't all that huge.

Oh yes it is. Before the CC1 adapter was available (from SK) i was charging from CHAdeMO all the time due to credits and free chargers. Most of that was sitting around for 45 mins to two hours. People forget that when it says 50kw, that’s 50kw MAX! The stupid things are usually pushing 30-45KW!!! Not 50.

When I started using the CCS1 adapter on the 150 or 350 chargers, yes, its not pushing the 200 we all want but it typically hits around 100-140 and then drops to 75 and stays there for a long time. So now its 20 -40 mins vs previous. So yes, faster speed, please.

 

[MarcG]

• Because of charge tapering, the difference between 50 kW and 150 kW isn't all that huge.

Strongly disagree with this bullet point (unlike the rest of your post).

On most Teslas you can stay above 100kW for a good portion of the charge, up until 70-80% SoC.

So I reckon a “nornal” SC or CCS charge (i.e. starting at a relatively low SoC and disconnecting around 70-90%) would be 2-4x quicker than a Chademo session at constant 50kW.

 

[generalmilk]

• Research anorexia.
• "It is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than for a rich person to enter the Kingdom of God!" (Luke 18:25)
  • I don't mean to open a theological debate here, and I'm not attempting to endorse any particular religion. This does happen to be a rather succinct statement of a common belief about wealth, though.

As to EV charging, if EVs could be charged in seconds, then sure, that'd be better than the current situation. That's not the case, though -- at least not today. It takes tens of minutes to charge from, say, 10% to 80%, and most people want to do something during that time. If that activity (eating, say) takes longer than the charger takes, then the charge is too quick. The driver is left with the choice of staying plugged in (possibly incurring idle fees) and interrupting the meal to move the car.

All I'm saying is that EV charging infrastructure should be available at a range of speeds to accommodate different needs. A ~30-minute charge is a good speed for some purposes, but for others, ~45 or ~60 minutes might be better; and for others, ~15 minutes or faster would be better.

• As I noted, and as you ignored, many CHAdeMO-equipped stalls have a 50 kW limit even on the CCS plug.
• Because of charge tapering, the difference between 50 kW and 150 kW isn't all that huge.
• Most stations aren't at capacity most of the time, so it's usually not a big deal. Of course, at a high-usage site, this won't be true.
• If there's no difference in usage time, but if using the 50 kW option is cheaper (because of no idle fees), then there's a monetary difference to the driver.

I’m gonna (again) ignore your first two bulletins as a few other commenters have already raised their opinions, no need to repeat from me.

Now let’s talk about the last two, both are excellent arguments to support my point (set kw limit to DCFC), yet you are against it, lol. Sounds like you are bending over backward for ChaDeMo.

In fact I don’t even care about setting DCFC limit, I always look for fastest charging as long as per kWh costs similar. I only raised that point after I realized someone would rather use ChaDeMo to charge slower to benefit themselves. Therefore I propose setting DCFC charge limit so that the CCS Adaptor can completely replace the bulky ChaDeMo for them.

 

[israndy]

It definitely makes a difference in the winter. Battery can cool off substantially over a couple of hours of driving.

It never really did for CHAdeMO, so if you are going to a CCS charger that is pushing the same 50kW it may not either. I could come in from a long drive or from an overnight cold soak and get the same 39kW charge rate when I first plug in at the local CHAdeMO charger. I even tried preconditioning with the car pointed to the local SpC on the long drive home and plugging into the CHAdeMO would still be at max 41kW. I never saw 27kW because it was cold or 45 kW because it was hot.

CCS does seem to pull more power from the same 50kW charger, but only a little. I still start about 42kW and max out around 46, rarely seeing 50kW unless the charger is actually capable of 62.5kW.

 

[generalmilk]

I’m gonna (again) ignore your first two bulletins as a few other commenters have already raised their opinions, no need to repeat from me.

Now let’s talk about the last two, both are excellent arguments to support my point (set kw limit to DCFC), yet you are against it, lol. Sounds like you are bending over backward for ChaDeMo.

In fact I don’t even care about setting DCFC limit, I always look for fastest charging as long as per kWh costs similar. I only raised that point after I realized someone would rather use ChaDeMo to charge slower to benefit themselves. Therefore I propose setting DCFC charge limit so that the CCS Adaptor can completely replace the bulky ChaDeMo for them.

Damn, I replied the wrong guy, that’s why…. Sorry. Now I can’t edit it. The other commenter was against the idea of limiting the charging rate on DCFC, I bet he’s also against the idea of using ChaDeMo when CCS is available.

If the station is mostly empty and I know I will be gone for an hour, there would be good use case to limit the charging speed, especially for folks that only do DCFC.

If the network can charge idle fee based on the station usage, they can surely add this feature, but I think it would be too much hassle for them to implement something only has “little” benefit to customer’s battery.

 

[Dirtman16]

It never really did for CHAdeMO, so if you are going to a CCS charger that is pushing the same 50kW it may not either. I could come in from a long drive or from an overnight cold soak and get the same 39kW charge rate when I first plug in at the local CHAdeMO charger. I even tried preconditioning with the car pointed to the local SpC on the long drive home and plugging into the CHAdeMO would still be at max 41kW. I never saw 27kW because it was cold or 45 kW because it was hot.

CCS does seem to pull more power from the same 50kW charger, but only a little. I still start about 42kW and max out around 46, rarely seeing 50kW unless the charger is actually capable of 62.5kW.

Yeah, I agree for the Chademo adapter. Once you start getting to 50-75+kW, I'd want preconditioning as an option

 

[Genie]

Damn, I replied the wrong guy, that’s why…. Sorry. Now I can’t edit it. The other commenter was against the idea of limiting the charging rate on DCFC, I bet he’s also against the idea of using ChaDeMo when CCS is available.

If the station is mostly empty and I know I will be gone for an hour, there would be good use case to limit the charging speed, especially for folks that only do DCFC.

If the network can charge idle fee based on the station usage, they can surely add this feature, but I think it would be too much hassle for them to implement something only has “little” benefit to customer’s battery.

charging while being gone for an hour is a use case for public L2.

 

[israndy]

I find it interesting that Tesla came up with the idea of Urban Superchargers and never seemed to place them in the correct locations. Harris Ranch would be smart, I AM going to eat dinner there and even if I am ready to get back on the road before it finishes charging it'll be enough to get home after a meal.

Malls in general if I am not right off a nexus of highways I can assume that I am a local here to shop. Give me an Urban charger. Instead I see fast chargers (v2 & v3) at malls and Urban chargers closer to the highway. Now that they have given up on them I guess it doesn't matter, but it would have been nice to keep going if they could have orchestrated it right. The slower charge HAS to be better for the car than the crazy cooling fan operation I get when v3 supercharging.

 

[Exelion]

charging while being gone for an hour is a use case for public L2.

I agree with this one, after plugging into many L2’s at work, strip malls, and lately, movie theaters. The amount of V2 heads available vs a single DCFC (50 and above) is a lot more desirable. I’d venture to say on the order of maybe eight to ten L2’s vs the one DCFC.

I keep hoping that sports stadiums will get onboard but haven’t seen it yet. They definitely need it!