If so, why do they use their lobbying power to prevent Tesla from opening service centers in some states?
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Chevy Bolt - 200 mile range for $30k base price (after incentive)
- Thread starter FredTMC
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- bolt chevy Electric Vehicles review
I have the strong impression that the Bolt will be sold in Europe as an Opel model much like they sold the Volt as the Opel Ampera. This was not discussed by GM at CES but has been strongly hinted at previously. I believe it was stated that they only had initial plans to export to countries like France etc. with the same left side steering wheel arrangement so no initial sales in the UK.
Counting just the GM Chevy dealers - about 3000 in the US, they wouid average ten sales per year to sell 30,000, even fewer if Bolts were sold to a world-wide market. The question would be what incentive would the dealer or salesperson have to sell the Bolt (arguing against the customer buying an ICE?). Chevy sells something like 2,000,000 cars per year so Bolt sales would be less than 2% of that. So the average salesperson would be selling more than 50 ICE cars and trucks for every Bolt. If there were a large demand for Bolts and thus a waiting list (like Tesla) then it seems to me that there would be a strong incentive for the salesperson to steer the customer to another GM car or truck, particularly since that would mean an immediate sale (and commission!).
... not to mention the additional income of the service department through oil changes, spark plug changes etc etc ...
Peter_M
Member
Exactly - dealers aren't motivated to sell EVs, or even plug-in hybrids. When I test-drove a Volt (with an advance appointment), I arrived to find that they had just one Volt on the lot, it was not charged, and the salesman spent the whole time trying to convince me not to buy it. They will have no trouble selling 30,000 Bolts per year because demand will be high, but once supply ramps up with Bolt or other new EVs, something will have to change. Either the manufacturers work out new deals with their dealers to motivate them to sell EVs despite the lower service revenue, or new companies (starting with Tesla) will claim the EV market and the incumbent manufacturers will eventually become irrelevant.
MichFin
Member
The difference between the Tesla and the Bolt is value. Now Elon has said that the Model 3 will be comparable to a BMW 3 series and have a $35k starting price with no incentives. Assuming he delivers on that it will be a great value compared to others in it's class.
The Bolt is priced $10k more than any car in it's class (Chevy Cruz) even with the incentives.
The Bolt is priced $10k more than any car in it's class (Chevy Cruz) even with the incentives.
Let's break this down even more on how the Bolt is little innovation for GM.
-LG Chem developed the important parts of the car (battery, etc.)
-They partnered with Lyft instead of building their own software (Something Telsa has done with their cars and will probably do with the "ride-share" phenomenon)
The video with Mary yesterday and the other one I saw on the test drive - both were talking about how GM innovates and is pushing the concept of how people drive forward.
Let's see, in the Bolt:
-screen you can customize
-rear-view video cam instead of mirror
-backseat floor fleshed out for easy access
I can't remember if it was Elon or someone else in the car industry, but GM creates incremental tech changes while looking like they give a damn about a switch to sustainable transportation.
-LG Chem developed the important parts of the car (battery, etc.)
-They partnered with Lyft instead of building their own software (Something Telsa has done with their cars and will probably do with the "ride-share" phenomenon)
The video with Mary yesterday and the other one I saw on the test drive - both were talking about how GM innovates and is pushing the concept of how people drive forward.
Let's see, in the Bolt:
-screen you can customize
-rear-view video cam instead of mirror
-backseat floor fleshed out for easy access
I can't remember if it was Elon or someone else in the car industry, but GM creates incremental tech changes while looking like they give a damn about a switch to sustainable transportation.
Breezy
Member
Looks like the Bolt will be in a class by itself, initially. The Bolt doesn't compete with the Honda Civic or the Chevy Cruze. Those are economy cars.
Saying that the Model 3 will compete with the 3-series doesn't make it so.
JRP3
Hyperactive Member
All other major OEM EV's use larger format cells than Tesla, and none of them have had any issues from individual cell failures. Nissan had an issue in hot climates by not using active cooling, had nothing to do with cell size or format. I expect the Bolt will have a similar liquid cooled pack as was used in the Volt, so I doubt there would be any issue with excessive cell degradation.
The Lyft investment is forward-looking. I'm not aware that Lyft has developed any of the software in the production Bolt.
Is the Bolt as innovative as what Tesla did with the Model S? No, but it is quite innovative and is pushing many more boundaries than most of the established automotive world.
PJFW8
Red Menace may hurt me
I would buy an S or X today, but they are simply too large. (When I drove Mercedes, Audi and Lexus I loved the luxury but hated the size!) I sold a 2012 Explorer because I hated driving a tank. Since then I have owned a CMax energi and now lease a Fusion energi. I am addicted to ev. I am hungry for a 3! I love my Fusion and then the darn gas engine kicks in! A 3...crossover or sedan would be ideal. I can't wait!
This thing is going to sell like hot cakes. When you first look at it, it appears small, but it is actually more like a small CUV (you know, the hottest car segment in America) and the wheelbase is actually 2" longer than the Chevy Trax (and likely just about $6K more than a comparably equipped Trax after rebate). With the battery in the floor it will likely have MORE interior capacity that the Trax (backseat certainly looks roomy). Beyond that, the dash and interior shots look pretty dang good:
Bangor Bob
Member
I'm a little underwhelmed, honestly. It's ok for a conversion job, but not fantastic.
Mainly I'm not seeing how they get to $37k. The Chevy Sonic this shares it's bones with has a starting MSRP of $14,350. Delete the ICE and all it's support systems - $3k? We know the battery cell pricing, there's roughly another $10k. Aluminum-intensive construction, add a super-generous $5k. (It adds a few hundred v. the previous-generation F150). EV running gear - $3k? I'm at $29k. There's likely a hefty margin built-in.
Mainly I'm not seeing how they get to $37k. The Chevy Sonic this shares it's bones with has a starting MSRP of $14,350. Delete the ICE and all it's support systems - $3k? We know the battery cell pricing, there's roughly another $10k. Aluminum-intensive construction, add a super-generous $5k. (It adds a few hundred v. the previous-generation F150). EV running gear - $3k? I'm at $29k. There's likely a hefty margin built-in.
Trev Page
Member
The Volt saw hefty price drops when it wasn't selling well so yeah I think GM is building in some big margins in the Bolt. However don't underestimate the costs of the battery. The Bolt is really an econobox with an expensive battery. They did a good job with it but they should have gone a little bit further and put the motor between the drive wheels ala Tesla instead of the front but I understand other makers do this so the cars can be built on the same line as ICE cars and insert the motors using largely the same tooling to keep costs down.
Breezy
Member
It's not a conversion job. It may share some common suspension components and steering with the next-gen (not current gen) Sonic. It has entirely different sheet metal, glass, structural requirements, infotainment, controls, and of course, powertrain.
The drive wheels are in the front.
anticitizen13.7
Not posting at TMC after 9/17/2018
I believe there's about a 5k difference in price between the base Chevy Trax (LS) and the highest trim Chevy Trax (LTZ). If the base Bolt with cloth seats and fewer toys costs $37,400 (before tax credit) + $900 destination, the top version pictured would likely cost $42,400 (before tax credit) + $900 destination.
This is not going to be a cheap car upfront. In the ICE world, 42k + destination gets you an Acura TLX V6 with Tech Package and SH-AWD system. Of course, the Bolt will be cheap as hell to operate/drive, while the TLX will eat many gallons of gasoline to run that SH-AWD.
Chevy plans to build 30,000 Bolts a year and they don't have enough batteries to build many more than that. Chevy also has 5000 dealers in the US. If they evenly spread the Bolt across all dealerships, that's 6 per dealer per year, one every two months. Even if consumers want the Bolt, the number available will be very limited and the supply in subsequent years is going to grow very slowly even with high demand, again due to low battery availability.
Even if Chevy beats Tesla to the $30-$40K, long range BEV market, Tesla has a clear roadmap to get to highish volumes by 2020. GM has no roadmap for getting production much above 30,000 a year in any near time frame.
It's all about battery availability.
Even if Chevy beats Tesla to the $30-$40K, long range BEV market, Tesla has a clear roadmap to get to highish volumes by 2020. GM has no roadmap for getting production much above 30,000 a year in any near time frame.
It's all about battery availability.
Information on the GM site says that their $37.5k price includes the destination fee.
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