Chevy Bolt - 200 mile range for $30k base price (after incentive)

[RiverBrick]

Someone, perhaps in another forum, said their Ontario dealer told them June/July of 2017.

I mentioned June/July in a post for Quebec, but as an ordering date for people who aren't yet on a waiting list. There are people who reserved (in some cases leaving cash deposits) over a year ago and they will be able to order before. Some already have had their orders accepted.

However, this strange requirement that Bolt dealers install DC Quick Charging may cause the lower volume dealers to simply not offer the car. I say strange, because the DC station can be reserved strictly for service use at the garage. No public access whatsoever is required (though dealers can share the station if so desired). If a dealer opts out, will GM increase the allotments of other Canadian dealers, or will he supply be diverted to California or Oregon?

 

[jgs]

3h 67m driving time for both

This threw me for a while until I realized you probably meant driving as such, behind-the-wheel time, not trip time. Which, of course -- if you hold the speed and distance constant then the time automatically will be the same. (Also, don't people normally refer to 3h 67m as 4h 7m?)

38 min charging time for S 60
53 min charging time for Bolt EV

So, 15 minutes greater trip time for the Bolt in your model.

The numbers you quote don't line up with the graph you show, though. If the S60 has, as you say, 4h 7m drive time + 38m charge time that should total out to 4h 45m trip time. But the top graph shows something more like 4h 20m or so. Likewise the Bolt by the numbers ought to be 4h 7m + 53m = 5h, but your graph shows something more like 4h 40m.

 

[BluestarE3]

However, this strange requirement that Bolt dealers install DC Quick Charging may cause the lower volume dealers to simply not offer the car. I say strange, because the DC station can be reserved strictly for service use at the garage. No public access whatsoever is required (though dealers can share the station if so desired). If a dealer opts out, will GM increase the allotments of other Canadian dealers, or will he supply be diverted to California or Oregon?

I assume the dealers have to bear the cost of these chargers, including installation and electricity? If so, that's in line with GM's previous comment that they're not investing in a fast charging network for the Bolt EV.

 

[Zoomit]

This threw me for a while until I realized you probably meant driving as such, behind-the-wheel time, not trip time. Which, of course -- if you hold the speed and distance constant then the time automatically will be the same. (Also, don't people normally refer to 3h 67m as 4h 7m?)

So, 15 minutes greater trip time for the Bolt in your model.

The numbers you quote don't line up with the graph you show, though. If the S60 has, as you say, 4h 7m drive time + 38m charge time that should total out to 4h 45m trip time. But the top graph shows something more like 4h 20m or so. Likewise the Bolt by the numbers ought to be 4h 7m + 53m = 5h, but your graph shows something more like 4h 40m.

Yes, sorry. I think I copied the wrong line. I think it's 3.67 hours or 3h 40m behind-the-wheel time but will verify later and reply if it's not.

 

[UnbeknownstToAll]

yep, I just posted the same... Now more than ever, I'd really like tesla to reveal Model 3. We've waited long enough...

Hi Fred, I'd love to hear your thoughts now about the Bolt. Sorry if it is somewhere here amongst all of the other posts but I'd be curious to hear.

 

[stopcrazypp]

I assume the dealers have to bear the cost of these chargers, including installation and electricity? If so, that's in line with GM's previous comment that they're not investing in a fast charging network for the Bolt EV.

I would hope not, since I don't see many dealers taking up this offer, esp. when they were not very enthusiastic about the car in the first place. This move may pretty much eliminate some dealers that would have otherwise sold a few Bolts on the side. Nissan's similar policy at least gave a sizable subsidy ($10k-$15k) and wasn't mandatory. As we have learned from years of CHAdeMO dealer chargers, they are not ideal locations to install them.

 

[gene]

The same trip down the California coast from Monterey will yield very good range in any EV. In my Tesla, my lifetime average is 305 watts/mile. I have done the same coastal trip as the reviewed Bolts. When I do it in the Tesla, I use only 265 watts/mile. They route they choose is mostly around 30 to 45 mph, with little altitude change. My guess, the Bolt will be 190 miles in real world.

Green Car reports has an article today about the new 115 mile Focus Electric. 2017 Ford Focus Electric preview

The comments section from this guy who sat in the Bolt and then the Focus is informative:
"I only spent about five minutes inside of it (bolt), but the entirety of the front and rear door cards, dash, console, etc. were all hard scratchy (and scratched up) plastic. There was a small padded area for your elbow to rest on the door. The backs of the front seats are hard plastic, the dash top is hard plastic, everything is hard plastic. It feels like what I would expect a Chinese knockoff of a Bolt to be inside.

The car I got in was monotone light grey with light grey leather. Maybe the dark/light grey interior option feels less bad? In any event the eGolf felt like an Audi A8 compared to the Bolt. Just awful."

 

[RiverBrick]

I assume the dealers have to bear the cost of these chargers, including installation and electricity? If so, that's in line with GM's previous comment that they're not investing in a fast charging network for the Bolt EV.

Yes, that's my understanding. I don't know if dealers can install one of those mini 24 kW CCS-only stations or if has to be 50 kW.

Since they don't have to offer the station to the public can simply leave it off and avoid the associated peak demand charges?

If dealers do have to install and run 50 kW stations, I wonder how long it will take to be in the black if you're only allocated 2-3 vehicles per month. This looks like a policy designed to funnel even more Bolts to high-volume (read Oregon and California) dealers in order to pocket ZEV credits.

(There's an outlier of 20, but it seems many QC dealers are mentioning 1-3 per month).

 

[MP3Mike]

This looks like a policy designed to funnel even more Bolts to high-volume (read Oregon and California) dealers in order to pocket ZEV credits.

Nah, I assume it is a matter if you sell them you need to be able service them which would require the ability to test the CCS charging system.

 

[BluestarE3]

Nah, I assume it is a matter if you sell them you need to be able service them which would require the ability to test the CCS charging system.

So we don't know yet whether or not these chargers at dealerships will be available for customer use?

 

[MP3Mike]

So we don't know yet whether or not these chargers at dealerships will be available for customer use?

That is up to each individual dealer to determine. (They aren't required to make them available.)

 

[Canuck]

It will be interesting to see the Bolt in person. The past three years have definitely been the best for electric vehicle ownership. I went to "Tsawwassen Mills" last weekend with the family to check it out. It's a brand new huge shopping complex out here, and they had to have police directing traffic, there was a huge line-up just to get into the parking lot. I drive in and my wife says to drop her and the kids off since it's unlikely I can get a spot anywhere near the doors, when I see an open EV parking only spot with a charger. Parked right by the door and charged next to another Tesla. These days are fast coming to an end and the few chargers available at malls will look pitifully inadequate and really should only be used by travellers or low range EV's.

 

[stopcrazypp]

So we don't know yet whether or not these chargers at dealerships will be available for customer use?

We don't know yet what specific policy terms and conditions GM set, but from past history, dealer chargers are up to the individual dealer as @MP3Mike points out. They are dealer property and dealer owned/operated/maintained, so GM has limited control over it, esp. if what others say is true that GM will not contribute substantially to the costs of installing.

 

[rxlawdude]

Because of this: Barstow, CA Tesla Supercharger Vandalized Before Thanksgiving Weekend

Doesn't sound like a valid situation to be concerned about. One that would strand the bolt too if all the CCS stations were sabotaged in a similiar manner.

Of course it's a valid situation to someone who shills for the Bolt.

 

[rxlawdude]

Range data is from the EPA test cycle as submitted:

The Model S 60 combined EPA is 210mi, the Bolt is 238mi (13%)
Compare Side-by-Side

Right now, I'd be more worried to take a Model S 60 to Vegas. Barstow SC is off-line. To get to Mountain Pass, CA (Baker Grade Peak) from Rancho Cucamonga SC... might require prayer and warm clothing. In the mountains, weight hurts.

93mph uphill is plenty of speed to pass. It hits the speed limiter from a dead stop in 14 seconds. It will do the 50-70mph pass about 1 second quicker than a 2017 BMW 330i.

Hey Boltphile, what speed is the EPA test run at? What resistance increases as the square of speed? What's the drag coefficient of a Bolt?

Again, we anxiously await your first trip to Vegas from Norco, Rat. Do let us know where you called AAA.

 

[Zoomit]

I hesitate to do this, but will share some early results I have from my EV performance modeling. So before everybody twists their underpants, please recognize I have a long list of (hopefully reasonable) assumptions baked into these squiggly lines that I need to write-up and will share when I finish refining the models. In a nutshell, this shows:

Downtown LA to Las Vegas via I-5N, 267 miles
Unique, partially-calibrated power consumption and battery recharging models for S 60 and Bolt EV
Model S 60 (locked 75) stops at Barstow and Primm Superchargers
Bolt EV stops at future, planned Barstow and Baker 50kW DCFC stations
Mostly 75 mph
Minimum 15% SoC
Flat ground (elevation effects in work)
Optimal charging, no waiting to charge, no weather...lots more

View attachment 203236

Results
3h 67m driving time for both
38 min charging time for S 60
53 min charging time for Bolt EV
Both cars have similar efficiency, ~2% difference (well within the modeling uncertainty)
Largest differentiator is net recharge rate
Planned DCFC station build-out is critical for Bolt EV (uses today's SCs vs future DCFCs)

Frankly, I'm not sure if these results are what people expect to see or not, but hopefully they add context to the discussion.

I need to follow-up and correct my summary numbers. The graphs are unchanged. The results should read:

3h 40m driving time for both (behind the wheel time)
38 min charging time for S 60
61 min charging time for Bolt EV
The Bolt EV is 23 min slower.

 

[Oil4AsphaultOnly]

I need to follow-up and correct my summary numbers. The graphs are unchanged. The results should read:

3h 40m driving time for both (behind the wheel time)
38 min charging time for S 60
61 min charging time for Bolt EV
The Bolt EV is 23 min slower.

Thanks for correcting the numbers, but isn't there one other correction needed? Wouldn't the S60 get there sooner by traveling at a higher speed? After all you stopped at barstow with a 40% charge remaining, and primm with 15% remaining. Drive the S60 @ 80mph to barstow and arrive @ primm with 10% reserves (or even 5%) and you'd gain quite a few more minutes on travel time with almost no difference in charge times. Would love to see the real world results of the Bolt's travel time just to validate.

 

[Jeff N]

Drive the S60 @ 80mph to barstow and arrive @ primm with 10% reserves (or even 5%) and you'd gain quite a few more minutes on travel time with almost no difference in charge times.

Do people actually drive with the intent of arriving with only a 5% reserve on uphill mountain roads? That seems like an unrealistic test to me.

 

[Oil4AsphaultOnly]

Do people actually drive with the intent of arriving with only a 5% reserve on uphill mountain roads? That seems like an unrealistic test to me.

Oh right, I forgot about that huge uphill 10 miles before primm. Then zoomit's state-of-charge graph isn't realistic either, as the last 10 miles should plateau.

 

[SmartElectric]

Do people actually drive with the intent of arriving with only a 5% reserve on uphill mountain roads? That seems like an unrealistic test to me.

Yes. The Tesla navigation and energy screen trip tab shows your progress and it's easy to arrive with low state of charge. Done it dozens of times.