Chevy Bolt - 200 mile range for $30k base price (after incentive)

[McRat]

My post was about meaningless comparison-bashing, not GM-bashing. When I'm GM bashing, you'll know it.

As to why so much GM bashing, for me it's mostly about GM lobbying state legislatures to prevent Tesla from selling and servicing its cars using the business model it wants to use (direct sales). GM isn't just competing on product, it's trying to sabotage the competition through legislation. That's what I object to. GM has even lobbied state legislatures to reject compromises reached between Tesla and the state auto dealer cartel, wanting even more severe restriction than what the auto dealer cartel agreed to. You asked and I replied, but this should be the topic of another thread.

Thank goodness it's not the Dealer's Association lobbying. When that happens, all EV's will be banned, as we know only Tesla desires to sell EV's.

But, yeah, all your post about the Bolt are flame bait. You hate the car and aren't going to buy it, and hope all EV makers except Tesla close up shop. We get it. Can't you just put that in your signature?

 

[techmaven]

I had a look at Jack's blog. Seemed to me (but I'm not an expert) that the SOC was straight-line up to 70% - so does the drop in kW matter?

Perhaps if the charger was more powerful the kW drop would be noticeable as an earlier taper?

What it means to me is that the BMS is already dropping the speed of the charge at 50% SOC, which means additional power at that SOC is unlikely to be used. That's disappointing that at 50% SOC, the Bolt is already tapering below 40 kW.

 

[McRat]

How do you know the Bolt wasn't tested with that model of EVSE? Or that GM skipped proper testing?

Agreed. But we don't yet have an accurate 70 mph steady state data for the Bolt. ...

From somebody who developed interfaces between systems, I can tell you there is no way to force Hewlett Packard to communicate according to their own published specification. Or any other company. You program according to the Standard, and hope for the best. You can't put code in trying to figure out what model charger you're attached to and have separate communications for each model.

It's up to the company who failed to actually support the Standard correctly to change. Or you'll spend your days trying to kludge your code every time a new brand comes out.

There was a magazine test at California Speedway at 75 mph until the car went to 0 miles. It was 190. Sounds about right.

 

[TexasEV]

Thank goodness it's not the Dealer's Association lobbying. When that happens, all EV's will be banned, as we know only Tesla desires to sell EV's.

But, yeah, all your post about the Bolt are flame bait. You hate the car and aren't going to buy it, and hope all EV makers except Tesla close up shop. We get it. Can't you just put that in your signature?

Of course it's dealer association lobbying too. That doesn't excuse the lobbying GM is doing. GM was very outspoken at the Texas legislature hearing two years ago, so much so that it even surprised the Tesla executive who was testifying (I was there). We all know about the amendment it later pushed through in Michigan. In Maryland the auto dealer cartel and Tesla reached agreement limiting Tesla to four stores, and GM lobbied the legislature to reject the compromise and limit Tesla to two stores. No other car manufacturer is doing such things, or if they are its so far under the radar that we don't hear of it.

 

[McRat]

... No other car manufacturer is doing such things, ...

And you know this how?

GM is the only member of the Dealer's Association, I get it, but I know for a FACT Toyota is doing some kind of lobbying in California to get what they want.

Are other companies doing back-door lobbying? Of course not, certainly VW would never do anything sneaky nor Mazda nor Mitsubishi.

 

[TexasEV]

And you know this how?

GM is the only member of the Dealer's Association, I get it, but I know for a FACT Toyota is doing some kind of lobbying in California to get what they want.

Are other companies doing back-door lobbying? Of course not, certainly VW would never do anything sneaky nor Mazda nor Mitsubishi.

No, GM is not a member the the state dealers associations. They're comprised of dealers.
Toyota is lobbying about fuel cell vehicles, but I don't think they're trying to stop Tesla from opening stores.

 

[brucet999]

The X has been demand limited most of the year, and built in slowly increasing quantities.

Did you mean to say "supply limited" or "production limited"? I had the impression that there were plenty of pre-production orders.

 

[Saghost]

Did you mean to say "supply limited" or "production limited"? I had the impression that there were plenty of pre-production orders.

Yup. I meant that they had a long waiting list of people ready to take cars and were very slowly increasing the number they were building, thus not a fair comparison for sales take. Which is of course production limited, not demand limited.

I speaks engrish most goodly. Honest. :-/

 

[samotlietuvis]

That's only 0.7C charge rate assuming 64kwhr Bolt battery size. Not good. My 2015 Spark EV with 19kwhr battery can match that. Hopefully the limitation is with the EVGo DCFC charger that is mediocre equipment. Unfortunately 80kw or better SAE Combo DCFC chargers are like unicorn - none to be seen in the wild .

Well, Jack at Bolt EV Blog delivered with some charts of DC charging on a Bolt:

Bolt EV Blog: DC Fast Charge data

 

[TonyWilliams]

Beginning the taper at 60-65% with a 0.7C charge rate is a little lower than I expected:

a. 0% SOC ----- 125A * 300V = 37kW max
b. 25% SOC --- 125A * 340A = 42kW max
b. 50% SOC --- 125A * 370V = 46kW max
c. 75% SOC ---- 90A * 385V = 36kW max
d. 90% SOC ---- 30A * 390V = 11kW max
e. 100% SOC ---- 0A * 400V = 0kW

 

[bro1999]

Bolt wins North American CotY and completes a sweep of the major auto awards!
GM's Chevrolet Bolt electric car wins North American Car of the Year

 

[ZsoZso]

How can they justify this statement in the article ?

Bolt is the first U.S.-made, mass-market, fully-electric car, beating Tesla Motors' Model 3 to production.

Tesla has sold more Model S in 2015 (thats TWO years AGO) than how many Bolt will be produced in 2017.
They need to add some extra qualifiers to justify the small mass...
If it was a mass market vehicle it would surely have to sell a lot more than an expensive luxury-cost vehicle !?

 

[Saghost]

How can they justify this statement in the article ?


Tesla has sold more Model S in 2015 (thats TWO years AGO) than how many Bolt will be produced in 2017.
They need to add some extra qualifiers to justify the small mass...
If it was a mass market vehicle it would surely have to sell a lot more than an expensive luxury-cost vehicle !?

I think they are defining mass market based on price point.

It is an interesting inversion, though, when they expect to sell significantly fewer of their mass market car than the luxury car sold last year. Kinda makes the mass market part meaningless...

 

[diamond.g]

How can they justify this statement in the article ?


Tesla has sold more Model S in 2015 (thats TWO years AGO) than how many Bolt will be produced in 2017.
They need to add some extra qualifiers to justify the small mass...
If it was a mass market vehicle it would surely have to sell a lot more than an expensive luxury-cost vehicle !?

Mass market likely means price.

 

[Merrill]

I think that is great and hope even though it is ugly that people will buy it.

 

[JRP3]

GM’s Chevy Bolt EV becomes the first all-electric car to win North American Car of the Year award

Probably just another biased article from Electrek....

 

[wycolo]

>

The Spark EV should be a lesson to the true EV enthusiasts.

Especially to those whose eyes tend to glaze over when they read 'GM'. Consider the Spark EV as GM's test model for the Bolt. It was designed and built by 'GM Korea' (at the Inchon plant abandoned by bankrupt Daewoo) much faster than Detroit ever could. The first year featured a hot rod motor seemingly inspired by GM Racing. They dialed this back a bit in the second year to balance overall efficiency. The third year finished off production as all the parts supplies were used up and the project was handed off to Detroit. So when you see a Bolt you are looking at a Spark EV modified to: 1. reduce power to more prudent levels and to save some more battery. 2. make the battery three times as large (238 miles EPA). 3. After inserting the bigger battery see what bloat must now be imposed on the body.
--

 

[TexasEV]

I think they are defining mass market based on price point.

It is an interesting inversion, though, when they expect to sell significantly fewer of their mass market car than the luxury car sold last year. Kinda makes the mass market part meaningless...

Perhaps the auto journalists define mass market as "made by companies that advertise in our magazines".

 

[scaesare]

OMG!!! A new model EV might be charging at less than peak speed on a charger that was never tested with that model????

Say it ain't so Joe, say it ain't so! While this has been an issue in the past, the Bolt EV should be immune due to it's many years of production.

And to let you in on another EV Secret, you don't give a rat's arse about kW levels on a LCD. The goal is miles per hour. Nothing at all matters but Miles of Charge delivered per Hour or other time interval. Simply because the goal is not to recharge a battery, it's to drive to somewhere in the distance.

But I suggest you wait. You will eventually find lower numbers than that, especially on the 24kW units. Put those up instead.

It's the opposite of Tesla charging. Tesla's charge at 135kW all over the nation 24/7. They never charged at 35kW due to infrastructure issues, ever. This is according to the Internet Experts.

The hyperbole undermines your credibility to talk actual merits of the product. Just as does the other direction.

Techmaven brought some actual data and facts, and from that it's possible to begin discussion of what the situation is.

 

[scaesare]

I had a look at Jack's blog. Seemed to me (but I'm not an expert) that the SOC was straight-line up to 70% - so does the drop in kW matter?

Perhaps if the charger was more powerful the kW drop would be noticeable as an earlier taper?

Looking at the graph, I see a drop from ~45kW to about 38kW (16% drop) at 50% SoC, and then another drop from 38kW to about 23kW (41%) at 70% SoC.