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Chevy Bolt - 200 mile range for $30k base price (after incentive)

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Color me surprised that CR set up a test that would favor Tesla's competitor, then waited until the clicks died down to give a partial explanation of the results/testing methodology.

My father has subscribed to CR since I was a kid, but he asserted CR was biased against larger cars. He thought their criticisms of issues on larger cars was harsher than the same problems on smaller cars. It does look like CR set up a test that favored smaller EVs over Tesla.

To do a fair comparison, they should do the range tests for all EVs on every regen setting. This would also tell the customer how much high regen helps on a given car.

I think novice EV drivers might find high regen disconcerting at first, but many might switch to the higher regen after a while as it is a better driving experience once you get used to it.
 
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My father has subscribed to CR since I was a kid, but he asserted CR was biased against larger cars. He thought their criticisms of issues on larger cars was harsher than the same problems on smaller cars. It does look like CR set up a test that favored smaller EVs over Tesla.

To do a fair comparison, they should do the range tests for all EVs on every regen setting. This would also tell the customer how much high regen helps on a given car.

I think novice EV drivers might find high regen disconcerting at first, but many might switch to the higher regen after a while as it is a better driving experience once you get used to it.

As a diehard stick shift driver, I found the regen braking during my test drive of a Model S P90D fairly familiar. Not too different than engine braking in low gear, but with the advantage of reclaiming energy otherwise lost to friction.

I could see how people transitioning from automatics might need an adjustment period though.
 
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As a diehard stick shift driver, I found the regen braking during my test drive of a Model S P90D fairly familiar. Not too different than engine braking in low gear, but with the advantage of reclaiming energy otherwise lost to friction.

I could see how people transitioning from automatics might need an adjustment period though.

I drove stick occasionally when I was younger, but all the cars I've owned were automatic and I haven't driven a stick in 20 years or more. It did take a bit of adjustment, but I prefer full regen now. I wish it was stronger sometimes.
 
I would like to see some statistics from Tesla regarding %VMT in Low Regen vs. Normal Regen. That would likely be a good counter to CR's chosen methodology - "your settings make for an invalid comparison because only this vanishingly small percentage of our customers' driving occurs with the car in Low Regen."
 
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Please do, if you know about any Model S that left the owner on the road-side due to drive-train failure!
I think you are mixing up a purely cosmetic issue (noise in case of Model S) and a fatal failure (stranded roadside by Bolt).
My drivetrain was replaced due to the noise under warranty free of charge while I was driving a loaner Model S for the day, no drama or inconvenience.

Drive Unit Replacement Poll

 
Main contactor failure (in the battery pack) was an issue on some Teslas. That would leave you stranded. Also some drive units did fail, leaving people stranded (but usually the noise would be intolerable long before the drive unit failed).

Tesla has a fairly good record when it comes to faults that would leave people stranded, and a much worse record when it comes to faults that are merely inconvenient or cosmetic. I do hope the Bolt faults are more like the Tesla main contactor failures, and not like the Fisker Karma battery failures. Fisker had to replace the entire battery pack, while Tesla could simply replace the contactors costing a few dollars. (You would get a new/refurbished pack though, as the contactors would need to be replaced in Fremont. These days, you get a so-called "loaner pack" until your battery pack is repaired.)
 
Thinking about it more, there is no way they drove the 75D or the Bolt to exhaustion. That's because whatever circuit they chose has to work with shorter range BEVs in order to provide the consistency they are trying to get but failing miserably. It is actually very difficult to to proper range testing on real streets... variations of weather, traffic patterns, and so forth can have significant effects. That's why the EPA testing is done on a dyno and synthetically corrected for additional factors like aerodynamics. That way the tests are repeatable. The other way is to run it on closed loop circuits doing laps like Idaho National Labs does and record steady state speeds.

CR's testing on surface streets is subject to a lot of driving style variations. As it turns out, I had to make a ~60 mile round trip last night and so I tried with regen set to normal and set to low. The difference in regen effect is significant as it plays with the Wh/mi average. With low regen, there are fewer really big negative numbers to average into the range calculations. At highway speeds, normal regen can do 60 kW. In low regen, the max is 30 kW and low enough that the brake lights never kick in. At lower speeds, the low regen is almost imperceptible and friction brakes are used all the time. That messes greatly with the Wh/mi average, especially if they are aiming for "normal" driving style and not hyper-miling as they stated. That easily pushes the Wh/mi estimation well over 300 Wh/mi.

I suspect CR used something like a 50 mile test loop, something they can do repeatedly with all kinds of BEVs. They then use the consumption as reported by the vehicle in order to estimate the total range. It isn't just the city driving, what is really important for that range estimator is the regen off the highway. Let say the 50 mile test loop is 40 miles of highway... which is pretty close to what I drove last night (26 out of 29 miles is highway). The Wh/mi while on the highway was over 300 Wh/mi, but then with full regen, it dropped significantly. Without full regen, it didn't drop nearly as much. If they drove the car to exhaustion, the difference wouldn't be that big... but without doing that, the acceleration onto the highway isn't balanced by the regen on the other side so the Wh/mi is too high. Of course, the further you drive, the less of an effect this has, but one has to drive a lot for the average to balance out.

Therefore, this change alone can account for 15-20% difference, especially if they didn't drive the vehicles to immobilization. The rest of the difference can easily be highway versus city driving. Again, the Bolt is more efficient at lower speeds and acceleration/regen, but the Model S is more efficient at higher speeds.

Again, the real test is taking both on DCFC trip jumps as that is when range really matters. Being able to drive 230 or 250 miles at 0-40 mph in city/suburban traffic is not particularly interesting. For example, simulate driving from D.C. to Orlando, or LA to SF, both very common driving patterns that require back to back charging at DCFC EVSE's and driving at normal traffic speeds. That's 65 mph to 75 mph speed limits most of the time. I would choose testing at 75 mph, because the speed limit is often that fast in many places and traffic typically flows even faster than that.

I seriously doubt CR just drove 50 miles, and then extrapolated how far each car could go on a full charge. They drove both vehicles till they died. They wouldn't say the Tesla "ran out of juice" if they simply extrapolated the range.

"In our electric-vehicle range test, we put the Bolt head to head against our 2016 Tesla Model S 75D. The Tesla ran out of juice at 235 miles, while the Bolt motored on for another 15 miles."

Chevrolet Bolt Sets Consumer Reports' Electric-Vehicle Range Record

CR's city testing is done on a closed track, so no variation there.

Fuel Economy

We perform our own fuel-economy tests, independent of the government's often-quoted EPA figures and the manufacturers' claims. Using a precise fuel-flow measuring device spliced into the fuel line, we run two separate circuits. One is on a public highway at a steady 65 mph. That course is run in both directions to counteract any terrain and wind effects. A second is a simulated urban/suburban-driving test done at our track. It consists of predetermined acceleration, and deceleration rates, as well as idle time. Consumer Reports' overall fuel-economy numbers are derived from those fuel consumption tests."


How Consumer Reports Tests Cars
 
I seriously doubt CR just drove 50 miles, and then extrapolated how far each car could go on a full charge. They drove both vehicles till they died. They wouldn't say the Tesla "ran out of juice" if they simply extrapolated the range.

"In our electric-vehicle range test, we put the Bolt head to head against our 2016 Tesla Model S 75D. The Tesla ran out of juice at 235 miles, while the Bolt motored on for another 15 miles."

Chevrolet Bolt Sets Consumer Reports' Electric-Vehicle Range Record

CR's city testing is done on a closed track, so no variation there.

Fuel Economy

We perform our own fuel-economy tests, independent of the government's often-quoted EPA figures and the manufacturers' claims. Using a precise fuel-flow measuring device spliced into the fuel line, we run two separate circuits. One is on a public highway at a steady 65 mph. That course is run in both directions to counteract any terrain and wind effects. A second is a simulated urban/suburban-driving test done at our track. It consists of predetermined acceleration, and deceleration rates, as well as idle time. Consumer Reports' overall fuel-economy numbers are derived from those fuel consumption tests."


How Consumer Reports Tests Cars

Think about it for a moment... they ran the vehicle to shutdown on a public highway? How do they do 2 way runs to shutdown? Do they follow with a tow truck? What is the distance of the 65 mph each way run in order to accommodate ~80 mile range BEVs and 200+ mile BEVs? Otherwise it wouldn't be consistent. Do they do the simulated city stuff on the same charge? That would mean each run much less than 40 miles.
 
Think about it for a moment... they ran the vehicle to shutdown on a public highway? How do they do 2 way runs to shutdown? Do they follow with a tow truck? What is the distance of the 65 mph each way run in order to accommodate ~80 mile range BEVs and 200+ mile BEVs? Otherwise it wouldn't be consistent. Do they do the simulated city stuff on the same charge? That would mean each run much less than 40 miles.

I would guess they finish their tests on their track with their urban cycle? It would help a lot if CR laid out more details. I think it is still up in the air whether they charged the Teslas to 100% or not. I'm inclined to believe they did, but them stating so would clear everythng up.
 
The asterisk threads, for one...literally any of them.

Of course, the greater issue is that you seem to have ignored the last 200 pages of this thread, where no one has been allowed to forget Tesla's shortcomings.

There were two identical posts that a limited number of early Bolts have potential battery system malfunctions that default to stop-mode.

Then somebody posts that Teslas never break down on the road.

Exactly what did you expect for a response in reply to Bolts being towed?

All cars get towed.
 
There were two identical posts that a limited number of early Bolts have potential battery system malfunctions that default to stop-mode.

Then somebody posts that Teslas never break down on the road.

Exactly what did you expect for a response in reply to Bolts being towed?

All cars get towed.

I didn't expect anything, but to chide Bro. And, again, I can't remember how many GM apologists on this site indicate that GM couldn't possibly have the teething issues that Tesla has had. Whether it's the powertrain issues, or how Super Cruise was going to be the next coming.

Sometimes I have to scroll up and make sure I'm still on TMC, and not somehow found myself at "GMC."
 
I didn't expect anything, but to chide Bro. And, again, I can't remember how many GM apologists on this site indicate that GM couldn't possibly have the teething issues that Tesla has had. Whether it's the powertrain issues, or how Super Cruise was going to be the next coming.

Sometimes I have to scroll up and make sure I'm still on TMC, and not somehow found myself at "GMC."

As you have probably noticed, many Tesla owners own multiple EVs, or a Tesla was not their first EV.
Interest by members of this site is what created this thread.
There is a huge amount of false content in this thread about what a Bolt is, and what it is not. Example, it does not have an ignition switch, nor did it replace urban light rail decades ago.
It is the duty of EV advocates to dispel erroneous information about EVs and the Bolt is no exception.

Super Cruise BTW - is in the hands of journalists today, and should have late Sept deliveries to the general public.
 
As you have probably noticed, many Tesla owners own multiple EVs, or a Tesla was not their first EV.
Interest by members of this site is what created this thread.
There is a huge amount of false content in this thread about what a Bolt is, and what it is not. Example, it does not have an ignition switch, nor did it replace urban light rail decades ago.
It is the duty of EV advocates to dispel erroneous information about EVs and the Bolt is no exception.

Super Cruise BTW - is in the hands of journalists today, and should have late Sept deliveries to the general public.
Out of curiosity, are we saying the power button in the Bolt isn’t the equivalent to an ignition switch (push button start)?
 
Out of curiosity, are we saying the power button in the Bolt isn’t the equivalent to an ignition switch (push button start)?

Well... it's not. It was apparently eventual wear caused by an excessive number of keys and junk hanging on key chains. One of my GM cars was afflicted by this. (My daughter normally drives that car and she had a big keychain...) We replaced the switch several years ago and all has been well ever since. Push button start has no key chain.