Class Action interest for not disclosing Safety Score

[ATPMSD]

At least if you were arguing they haven't delivered FSD as promised you might have a point,

So IMHO they have not delivered what I paid for, OK half. You see Tesla once sold EAP, which is everything in FSD except “Autosteer on city streets” which has been coming soon for years. In my view, Tesla owners paid for something Tesla sold that they could not, would not deliver.

And of late (for months) Tesla has been dingaling “FSD Beta,” probably trying to keep the wolves at bay, and still no mainstream delivery date on the horizon.

 

[bpnine]

So IMHO they have not delivered what I paid for, OK half. You see Tesla once sold EAP, which is everything in FSD except “Autosteer on city streets” which has been coming soon for years. In my view, Tesla owners paid for something Tesla sold that they could not, would not deliver.

And of late (for months) Tesla has been dingaling “FSD Beta,” probably trying to keep the wolves at bay, and still no mainstream delivery date on the horizon.

Sorry, I should have been more specific. I got my MY in early 21 and at that point what they claimed I was getting for the $10K they have "delivered" on (one could argue that the parking stuff is a demo stunt and mostly useless but it does meet the description in the purchase docs and manual). I don't personally have experience with what they were promising in the early days, it sounds like they might have materially oversold it at that point.

I still think this lawyer is silly WRT the beta, if someone has to sue someone at least make it about FSD being paid in full up front and not yet delivered to those poor folks who's cars are nearing the end of their useful life.

 

[drtimhill]

Please contact me if you would be interested in joining a potential class action lawsuit against Tesla for not disclosing the requirement to obtain a Safety Score before being eligible to receive FSD after it was available. This condition was not disclosed to any FSD purchaser. email: [email protected]
Thanks,
Chris

Spot the ambulance chaser..

 

[Twiglett]

one post and click bait title
yep - its a clueless lawyer looking to make a quick buck
Class action lawsuit = meaningless payout to "victims" but a nice big chunk'o'cash for the lawyer.
Class action lawyers like this give ambulance chasers a bad name

--adding the email to all the mailing lists I can find now

 

[Phlier]

Don't you have to be a forum sponsor with a "Vendor" title (in other words, pay) to drum up business on this site?

How is the OP's post any different? He's a lawyer, looking to make money from a post on this forum.

Mods, please do your mod thing, and take out the trash?

 

[Cheffromage]

Beta is something Tesla wields like Captain America's shield; they try to use it to explain away all sorts of irresponsible behavior and substandard product. You can debate what beta software is or what it means, but the only thing that matters is what legal precedent(s) might be applied, not what the software developers think. Even when one buys software that is in beta form, it is pretty much expected that the product will be delivered.

What I know is that I paid $10,000 for a feature that the company has not delivered to me. At the time of purchase, I was led to believe that delivery was imminent, even though it still would be a work in process. A year later, I'm still waiting. To me, it is as if I paid for a roof rack that hasn't been delivered yet. For something like that, one would expect to be able to go back to the dealer and get that money refunded. I would gladly surrender the expectation of FSD delivery for a return of my purchase price. If I have to join a class-action lawsuit to get that, shame on Tesla but sign me up.

 

[Dewg]

Beta is something Tesla wields like Captain America's shield; they try to use it to explain away all sorts of irresponsible behavior and substandard product. You can debate what beta software is or what it means, but the only thing that matters is what legal precedent(s) might be applied, not what the software developers think. Even when one buys software that is in beta form, it is pretty much expected that the product will be delivered.

What I know is that I paid $10,000 for a feature that the company has not delivered to me. At the time of purchase, I was led to believe that delivery was imminent, even though it still would be a work in process. A year later, I'm still waiting. To me, it is as if I paid for a roof rack that hasn't been delivered yet. For something like that, one would expect to be able to go back to the dealer and get that money refunded. I would gladly surrender the expectation of FSD delivery for a return of my purchase price. If I have to join a class-action lawsuit to get that, shame on Tesla but sign me up.

You didn't pay $10k for a feature they haven't delivered. You paid $10k for a suite of features which you have currently. If you honestly saw autosteer on city streets coming soon and thought "the rest of those things are worthless, but I'll pay $10k for city streets with no promised delivery date", then I respect that. But if you enjoy and use any of the other features on the list, then you got what you paid for. Your $10k was for the features on the list - the city streets is a bonus feature you'll get for free when it's released later.

 

[ATPMSD]

You didn't pay $10k for a feature they haven't delivered. You paid $10k for a suite of features which you have currently.

Not entirely as part of the package was listed under the heading:

Coming Soon​

I purchased my car in Oct. 2020 and paid $10K for FSD. It has been nearly 20-months and I suggest to any reasonably person it is well past coming soon. Therefore, Telsa has not delivered 100% of what I paid for. In fact given that Tesla used to sell the EAP package for half the price of FSD, Tesla has not delivered on about $5K of the product I paid for.

 

[Dewg]

Not entirely as part of the package was listed under the heading:

Coming Soon​

I purchased my car in Oct. 2020 and paid $10K for FSD. It has been nearly 20-months and I suggest to any reasonably person it is well past coming soon. Therefore, Telsa has not delivered 100% of what I paid for. In fact given that Tesla used to sell the EAP package for half the price of FSD, Tesla has not delivered on about $5K of the product I paid for.

I'm not really sure how to help you guys - you are upset that you aren't getting what you paid for, but you are. The coming soon is a free add-on when it's released. You paid $10K for the available features on the list. Once you accept that and enjoy the features you have, the city streets feature will be a pleasant surprise when it's released. If you cannot accept that, then all I can do is feel sad for you.

Here is a little thought experiment. How much money do people think the following is worth?

Autopilot (included with all cars): $
Navigate on Autopilot: $
Auto Lane Change: $
Autopark: $
Summon: $
Full Self-Driving Computer: $
Traffic Light and Stop Sign Control: $
Autosteer on City Streets: $

For the sake of simplicity, assume the features are common and not edge case. Example, "Summon" is for getting your car out of your garage or a parking spot at the store - not for calling you car from NY to LA.

 

[ATPMSD]

I'm not really sure how to help you guys - you are upset that you aren't getting what you paid for, but you are. The coming soon is a free add-on when it's released. You paid $10K for the available features on the list. Once you accept that and enjoy the features you have, the city streets feature will be a pleasant surprise when it's released. If you cannot accept that, then all I can do is feel sad for you.

Here is a little thought experiment. How much money do people think the following is worth?

Autopilot (included with all cars): $
Navigate on Autopilot: $
Auto Lane Change: $
Autopark: $
Summon: $
Full Self-Driving Computer: $
Traffic Light and Stop Sign Control: $
Autosteer on City Streets: $

For the sake of simplicity, assume the features are common and not edge case. Example, "Summon" is for getting your car out of your garage or a parking spot at the store - not for calling you car from NY to LA.

The problem with your premise is that it ignores EAP. Tesla used to sell EAP for half the price of FSD; EAP included 100% of the features you listed (I believe). Tesla then changed to FSD and the only difference, other than doubling the price, was the “coming soon” feature of city driving. This was, and is not a “free add-on.” It is the basis of the difference between EAP and FSD. This is why people are upset.

 

[ATPMSD]

Enhanced Autopilot

• Navigate on Autopilot
• Auto Lane Change
• Autopark
• Summon

Full Self-Driving Capability

• Navigate on Autopilot
• Auto Lane Change
• Autopark
• Summon
• Traffic Light and Stop Sign Control
• Autosteer on city streets (coming soon)

 

[nvx1977]

Enhanced Autopilot

• Navigate on Autopilot
• Auto Lane Change
• Autopark
• Summon

Full Self-Driving Capability

• Navigate on Autopilot
• Auto Lane Change
• Autopark
• Summon
• Traffic Light and Stop Sign Control
• Autosteer on city streets (coming soon)

To be fair, I don't think people who are paying (or considering paying $10k or $12k) for FSD have a lot of access to historical packaging options like EAP. They're evaluating their decision likely on the conventional wisdom that "Teslas can drive themselves" or that this ability is "coming soon."

I'm right on the fence between "Tesla is misleading people" and "People should do more research before committing such a big chunk of money." For people who have the savvy or comfort to make it onto TMC to complain, I tend to favor the latter.

 

[Dewg]

I totally understand people's frustration - it's a generic feeling us humans get called "buyers remorse" or just plain regret. I'm trying to help people not feel frustrated. If you think of Autosteer on City Streets as a free add-on that will come at some point, then you'll be less angry/upset.

Aside from that, there's nothing I can do to help people who are feeling regret or buyers remorse. Those people have every right to feel upset, however they don't have a legal cause of action in the US. If someone takes Tesla to court over not receiving Autosteer on City Streets, any defending lawyer worth their salt, or any competent judge will ask you the following:

When you signed the contract with Tesla to purchase the vehicle, are the following items listed in the contract? (And they'll show the FSD list)
You: Yes
Did the contract show Autosteer on City Streets as "Coming Soon"?
You: Yes
Did the contract state a date in which Autosteer on City Streets would be delivered to you?
You: No

The lawyer would then demonstrate good faith on Tesla's part by showing the constant release of software updates for improvements to the FSD systems. They would then show the invitation-only FSD Beta program and constant updates to that software, listing the tens of thousands of testers. All this to show the court that Tesla is working in good faith to release Autosteer on City Streets at some point in the future.

Your lawyer may try to introduce evidence showing Elon Musk tweeted about Autosteer on City Streets being released at various points in the past and future. At which point the defense will refer back to the contract and the fact that tweets are not legally binding in an executed contract.

Your case will likely be dismissed. I'm not saying it doesn't suck for you, I'm just saying there is no cause of action unless there is a specific law in your jurisdiction that grants you that cause. For example, there are legal protections in the UK, which is why Tesla does not offer FSD in UK, only EAP. And they must offer a refund in a reasonable amount of time for those who do not enjoy the EAP they purchased.

 

[Cheffromage]

You didn't pay $10k for a feature they haven't delivered. You paid $10k for a suite of features which you have currently. If you honestly saw autosteer on city streets coming soon and thought "the rest of those things are worthless, but I'll pay $10k for city streets with no promised delivery date", then I respect that. But if you enjoy and use any of the other features on the list, then you got what you paid for. Your $10k was for the features on the list - the city streets is a bonus feature you'll get for free when it's released later.

I respectfully disagree. I paid for FSD. That's what the feature was named in the sales agreement. They haven't delivered; its not that they delivered and it just doesn't work, I don't have it. That's pretty simple, in my book. You may think differently, and that's okay. But I'm the one that didn't get my roof rack and I want my money back.

I'm not sure what the other "features" may be in your view, but cruise control and lane-keeping assist were not functions that were delivered in exchange for my $10,000.

I want my money back.

 

[Cheffromage]

You didn't pay $10k for a feature they haven't delivered. You paid $10k for a suite of features which you have currently. If you honestly saw autosteer on city streets coming soon and thought "the rest of those things are worthless, but I'll pay $10k for city streets with no promised delivery date", then I respect that. But if you enjoy and use any of the other features on the list, then you got what you paid for. Your $10k was for the features on the list - the city streets is a bonus feature you'll get for free when it's released later.

I must be missing something, so please help me out. What features are in this "suite" that I received in exchange for my $10,000?

 

[drtimhill]

I respectfully disagree. I paid for FSD. That's what the feature was named in the sales agreement. They haven't delivered; its not that they delivered and it just doesn't work, I don't have it. That's pretty simple, in my book. You may think differently, and that's okay. But I'm the one that didn't get my roof rack and I want my money back.

I'm not sure what the other "features" may be in your view, but cruise control and lane-keeping assist were not functions that were delivered in exchange for my $10,000.

I want my money back.

You may not like it, but "FSD" is a marketing term for an optional package of features, including Smart Summon, NoA etc. One of those features, "City Streets" is colloquially called "FSD beta" or even just "FSD", but from the standpoint of what you got .. yeah, you got FSD, with a promise of the "City Streets" add-on coming "soon" (which has no legally definition that I'm aware of).

 

[Dewg]

I must be missing something, so please help me out. What features are in this "suite" that I received in exchange for my $10,000?

• Navigate on Autopilot
• Auto Lane Change
• Autopark
• Summon
• Traffic Light and Stop Sign Control
• Autosteer on city streets (coming soon)