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Combined Charging System (CCS) 2.0

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I think Tesla could make a brilliant move joining CCS. There could be some speed bumps transitioning, but if the supercharger network was converted to the CCS standard and Tesla put in some way to charge non-Teslas to charge. Tesla could become THE brand for fast EV charging. Other fast chargers have reputations for being unreliable, often broken, low power, etc. But superchargers are known to be highly reliable and consistently high power. Tesla has also given a lot of thought towards locating their chargers in convenient locations for long distance travelers and always have multiple stalls at all locations.

To compare to the ICE world, Tesla could end up being both a popular brand of car and the most popular brand of "gas" station for travelers, no matter what brand of car they drive. Not only does Tesla make money from the supercharger network, they also have a captive audience of other brand EV drivers who will have a chance to have long talks with Tesla drivers at superchargers and learn more about Teslas. Free advertising for Tesla cars.

It may not go down that way, but I think it would be a brilliant move for Tesla if they could pull it off.
 
Tesla would be silly not to be involved in the process for determining direction for major charging infrastructure plans.

At the least, they would likely want to make another CCS adapter based on the new standards, and what better way to have intimate knowledge of the technical details than to be involved in creating them?

Best case: The CCS folks see the light and adopt Tesla's IP for the next version and we get a much more usable (and Tesla compatible) design and capability.
 
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I agree, at most Tesla will make a CCS adapter, and keep the Superchargers for Tesla cars only.

BTW, the 200 kW CCS limit is a nice marketing number, but it will be a long time before any car can charge at that rate. Current battery cell chemistry isn't there yet for automotive batteries. Because of this, people will not spend the huge extra money to provision stations for 200 kW since there won't be any cars that can charge that fast.

Look at Chademo as an example. While the current spec allow higher rates, the vast majority of stations peak out at 50 kW or even 35 kW.
 
Interesting. Any idea what the charge limit of our current Tesla is ?
Suppose we had a 200kW CCS charger with an adapter, could we charge our MS that fast ?
Well, one limit is pack voltage, which peaks at ~400V.

That would require 500A to reach 200kW charging. Neither a CCS 2.0 charger is likely to reach that (the existing standard uses vltages double that, so the current is much lower), nor can a model S accept that... the plug and conductors are pretty close to the limit at the ~335A rate that 135KW superchargers deliver today.
 
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Tesla would be silly not to be involved in the process for determining direction for major charging infrastructure plans.

At the least, they would likely want to make another CCS adapter based on the new standards, and what better way to have intimate knowledge of the technical details than to be involved in creating them?

Best case: The CCS folks see the light and adopt Tesla's IP for the next version and we get a much more usable (and Tesla compatible) design and capability.

It's possible you're right. I doubt the major car companies would adopt anything from Tesla unless forced. Nobody wants to admit Tesla is right about anything.

I just tossed a possibility out there.

I agree, at most Tesla will make a CCS adapter, and keep the Superchargers for Tesla cars only.

BTW, the 200 kW CCS limit is a nice marketing number, but it will be a long time before any car can charge at that rate. Current battery cell chemistry isn't there yet for automotive batteries. Because of this, people will not spend the huge extra money to provision stations for 200 kW since there won't be any cars that can charge that fast.

Look at Chademo as an example. While the current spec allow higher rates, the vast majority of stations peak out at 50 kW or even 35 kW.

The biggest problem with most CHAdeMO installations and most CCS installations to date is both have relied on businesses installing them for themselves and in most cases the charger is on whatever the largest breaker the business could put in. Because individual owners of chargers are responsible for maintenance, many break down and aren't repaired. They are also located usually singly wherever a business happens to be and probably isn't very convenient for long distance travelers.

Tesla took a much smarter and systematic approach. Each installation has multiple chargers, they are mostly located near major highways and most are in locations where people can go do something while their car charges. Tesla also got access to the neighborhood mains instead of leaching off an existing building. In most cases they have their own high power transformer at the supercharger. Tesla is also very proactive in maintaining superchargers. If any go down, they are on top of it very quickly.

Until CHadeMO and CCS installations start doing this, they won't be able to support an expanded BEV fleet for long trips. I think that will become glaringly apparent when the Bolt hits the road and new Bolt owners end up stranded because the charger they needed was broken and they didn't find out until they got there. If there are any regions which get a concentration of Bolts, there will be waiting lines at chargers. Meanwhile Model S 60 owners who only have a little more range than a Bolt can get from city to city with few problems.

Even if the CCS group rolls out a 200 KW charger standard and someone make them, very few will be found in the field capable of 200 KW. It's the fatal flaw in the industry's plan and management doesn't really want to do anything about it because it reinforces the theory that BEVs are more of a nuisance than the future. Though when the Model 3 hits the market shows staying power, the other car companies will start to panic and they will realize they are way behind.

If Tesla isn't offering CCS charging by then, somebody will have to bite the bullet to offer a parallel CCS charging network, which would be a major duplication of effort.
 
I don't know how they do things in Washington state, but I'm pretty sure that most of the NRG sites in California have at least 250kW transformer capacity and don't rely on an existing building's power feed. Some do, most notably the sites that use the BTC chargers since those take 208Y120 power. However, those sites are definitely in the minority and are mostly connected to grocery stores that have the spare capacity for one or two fast chargers.
 
Without exception, ALL of the remaining ChaDeMo in the greater Tucson metropolitan area are either throttled by manufacture to 20kW, by service run to 50A, or both. Tucson is the 2nd largest (and best *polite cough*) city in Arizona. Of course, they are all single installations.

Even with the best assortment of ChaDeMo that I've encountered yet (see AeroVironment network, and specifically coastal Oregon), the problem is exactly as noted above - that being that they are single installations. That's going to start to be a problem relatively soon.
 
Without exception, ALL of the remaining ChaDeMo in the greater Tucson metropolitan area are either throttled by manufacture to 20kW, by service run to 50A, or both. Tucson is the 2nd largest (and best *polite cough*) city in Arizona. Of course, they are all single installations.

Even with the best assortment of ChaDeMo that I've encountered yet (see AeroVironment network, and specifically coastal Oregon), the problem is exactly as noted above - that being that they are single installations. That's going to start to be a problem relatively soon.
Hey Tao .... parsing your post. What does "remaining" mean? Are they removing Chademos in the Tucson area?
 
"Munich, October 18, 2016. Another important milestone is set for e-mobility and for an ecological
future of transportation: Today marks the official launch of the Ultra-E project, co-financed by the
“Connecting Europe Facility” of the European Union. This project will deploy, for the first time in
Europe, a network of 25 Ultra-Fast-Chargers using also the CCS-connector with a charging power of
up to 350 kW on TEN-T core network corridors
. This network will connect the Netherlands, Belgium,
Germany and Austria. The Ultra-Fast-Charging technology will be assessed for charging passenger
vehicles, buses, and trucks (intermodal services).
...
The Ultra-Fast-Charging sites will be deployed at an average distance of 120-150 km, along TEN-T
core network corridors from Amsterdam and Brussels via Munich to Vienna and Graz. The total length
of the corridors will be more than 1,100 km."

https://www.allego.eu/wp-content/uploads/2016/10/18102016-Ultra-E-Press-Release-1.pdf

1,100 km are only a small fragment of the Trans-European Transport Network (TEN-T), but I guess one has to start somewhere.
 
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The VW settlement was officially approved by the district court judge today without any modifications.

This article, written after the final settlement fairness hearing last week, describes the possible impact on CCS /CHAdeMO EV charging investments due to as much as $2.3 billion in available settlement funding for that purpose over 10 years:

VW Settlement May Supercharge non-Tesla DC Rollout in US - HybridCars.com
 
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