Commercial Crew Transportation Capability (CCtCap) SpaceX and Boeing Developments

[Grendal]

It's not my strong suit - but to me "double vacuum pressure" smacks of belonging hanging next to "one hand clapping".

Ha. That was my first thought too. People speculating on FB think it means 0 exterior pressure but double internal pressure. So 0 psi external and 6-8 psi internal. Both Dragon, CST-1000, and the ISS are designed for normal 1 atmosphere at sea level.

So the suit ended up looking like the leaked picture from over a year ago:

 

[Cosmacelf]

Wouldn't double atmospheric pressure be more accurate? On the other hand, Elon knows more about Space than I ever will, so who knows.

 

[AudubonB]

Waaalllll....until I'm comfortable Mr Musk won't again conflate atmospheric and vacuum pressures....I'm going to hold in abeyance my transit to Mars, I tell ya.

 

[Grendal]

Waaalllll....until I'm comfortable Mr Musk won't again conflate atmospheric and vacuum pressures....I'm going to hold in abeyance my transit to Mars, I tell ya.

We haven't got confirmation there's a HUD in the helmet either...

 

[e-FTW]

We haven't got confirmation there's a HUD in the helmet either...

Or confirmation that they changed the nose. Let me pull out my yellow markup pen...

 

[Doug_G]

Ha. That was my first thought too. People speculating on FB think it means 0 exterior pressure but double internal pressure. So 0 psi external and 6-8 psi internal.

It would be rather simpler to leave external pressure at 1 atmosphere, and inflate the suit to 3 atmospheres. So I imagine that's what they actually did.

 

[ggr]

Does anyone else think that that is Elon inside, in the photo he tweeted?

 

[Yuri_G]

Does anyone else think that that is Elon inside, in the photo he tweeted?

"That's a SpaceX engineer in there, not me"

Elon Musk on Twitter

 

[copyhacker]

Or confirmation that they changed the nose. Let me pull out my yellow markup pen...

Sure hope they get the panel gaps right.

 

[Grendal]

Elon posted a really cool instagram photo of someone in a SpaceX spacesuit standing next to a crew version Dragon 2.

Instagram post by Elon Musk • Sep 8, 2017 at 8:04pm UTC

 

[Grendal]

Most of the delays for Commercial Crew happen because Congress chose to underfund the program.

Crewed Starliner test flight could slip to 2019 - SpaceNews.com

 

[Grendal]

Here are the minutes to a government meeting discussing, among other things, Commercial Crew progress. Some very interesting tidbits pertaining to the company there:

Micro Meteoroid & Orbital Debris (MMOD) on Dragon capsule.
COPV 2.0 and improved Merlin for Commercial Crew
Other notes on Merlin Changes

With excerpted details on these things here:
Info regarding COPV 2.0, Improved Merlin in recent ASAP meeting minutes (pdf) • r/spacex

You have to read between the lines but it seems that SpaceX is on track for their April unmanned launch and their August manned launch.

 

[RDoc]

Most of the delays for Commercial Crew happen because Congress chose to underfund the program.

Crewed Starliner test flight could slip to 2019 - SpaceNews.com

They really like paying the Russians for seats.

 

[Grendal]

They really like paying the Russians for seats.

Sadly, I think so. The focus on safety at NASA is huge. If something goes wrong and an astronaut is lost then the USA could blame Russia. Though, to be honest, Russia has done very well. They've launched about 50 of our astronauts with no losses. Money-wise we've spent a lot those launches.

Russia is squeezing NASA for more than $3.3 billion — and there's little anyone can do about it

$3.7 billion has been given to the Russians.

Changing the subject off of Russia:
Gwynne Shotwell mentioned at The Space Council meeting that Dragon can carry seven but NASA will only use 4 seats at maximum.

 

[oneday]

Sadly, I think so. The focus on safety at NASA is huge. If something goes wrong and an astronaut is lost then the USA could blame Russia. Though, to be honest, Russia has done very well. They've launched about 50 of our astronauts with no losses. Money-wise we've spent a lot those launches.

Russia is squeezing NASA for more than $3.3 billion — and there's little anyone can do about it

$3.7 billion has been given to the Russians.

Changing the subject off of Russia:
Gwynne Shotwell mentioned at The Space Council meeting that Dragon can carry seven but NASA will only use 4 seats at maximum.

Do you know if they (SpaceX) can sell the extra seats to the other countries that participate in ISS? Or does NASA have a right to all of those seats and can choose to use them, sell them or leave them empty?

 

[adiggs]

Do you know if they (SpaceX) can sell the extra seats to the other countries that participate in ISS? Or does NASA have a right to all of those seats and can choose to use them, sell them or leave them empty?

And a closely related question - does SpaceX have the option (once commercial crew is proven, up, and running), of doing their own private run to deliver astronauts etc.. to the ISS independent of NASA? Could SpaceX sell Russia a few seats to get Russian astronauts to the ISS? Heck - could SpaceX go throw up their own ISS2....

H'mm...

 

[Grendal]

Do you know if they (SpaceX) can sell the extra seats to the other countries that participate in ISS? Or does NASA have a right to all of those seats and can choose to use them, sell them or leave them empty?

And a closely related question - does SpaceX have the option (once commercial crew is proven, up, and running), of doing their own private run to deliver astronauts etc.. to the ISS independent of NASA? Could SpaceX sell Russia a few seats to get Russian astronauts to the ISS? Heck - could SpaceX go throw up their own ISS2....

H'mm...

I would expect that NASA has final say on anything associated with a NASA launch. NASA refused a small orbital burn on CRS-1 to correct for the one Merlin failure to ever happen. That caused the loss of a secondary satellite payload Orbcomm OG2 due to an abnormally low orbital deployment. SpaceX asked to make the correction to save the satellite and NASA refused.

Since their working relationship is now quite good with NASA, I expect that SpaceX could request use of the extra seats for someone but NASA could tell them no.

Take note that another country could always buy a launch for themselves and use all seven seats. However, I don't think the ISS is equipped for a large crowd. It's probably unlikely that NASA will ever use more than two seats at a time.

As for creating an orbital habitat, absolutely SpaceX could create their own or work with someone like Bigelow to do it. I fully expect to see such a thing happen if BFR/BFS proves to be the game changing rocket it seems to be.

 

[oneday]

Here’s some information from Robert frost at NASA regarding max crew at the ISS

The ISS is designed to handle a crew of seven. Current escape vehicle capacity limits the crew to six. During a direct handover, that crew size can climb to nine. That is only for short periods of time.

A Soyuz capsule holds three people. That means the crew is 3x the number of docked Soyuz. There are enough ports to support there being four Soyuz docked, but that does not mean the ISS can support 12 crew members.

The limiting factors are defined by the ECLSS (Environmental Control and Life Support System). Putting twelve people onboard would overstress the equipment that removes carbon dioxide. It would overstress the hygiene equipment. It would overtax the water recycling system.

At this point, a few of you might be thinking - "but wait, I remember seeing more people than that on the ISS!"

Yes, you did. During a few of the Space Shuttle missions the number of people reached 13. Seven of those people were the crew of the Orbiter. They used Orbiter ECLSS and hygiene equipment.

 

[Grendal]

3rd Quarter review of the Commercial Crew Program:

– Official Dates For SpaceX:
April 2018: Flight to ISS without crew (Demo Mission 1)
August 2018: Flight to ISS with crew (Demo Mission 2)
PCM-1 awarded November 2015; Completed three milestones to date
PCM-2 awarded July 2016; Completed two milestones to date

 

[Grendal]

Latest update from NASA. Seems to be going well and on time (from the last slip).

NASA Commercial Crew Program Mission in Sight for 2018