You have complete control ... you use as much control in the easing off as you do in the application of accelerator. You can ease off so gently that there is effectively no regen taking place ... so, more or less, coasting. You are correct that you will adapt your driving style ... the basic control comes to you within a few minutes ... subsequently you develop the technique to your own needs/satisfaction. Your brakes only tend to get used when you are doing some "performance driving"!
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Considering the Model 3 and have a few queries.
- Thread starter snerkler
- Start date
You have complete control ... you use as much control in the easing off as you do in the application of accelerator. You can ease off so gently that there is effectively no regen taking place ... so, more or less, coasting. You are correct that you will adapt your driving style ... the basic control comes to you within a few minutes ... subsequently you develop the technique to your own needs/satisfaction. Your brakes only tend to get used when you are doing some "performance driving"!
I’ve had my Model 3 for 3 weeks and had to drive my wife’s ICE car the other day. It was initially a shock that the car didn’t slow down when I lifted my foot off the accelerator, and I had to actually make the effort to move my foot over to the brake pedal to slow it down. To me it now seems a bit mad that all cars don’t slow down as soon as you lift up your foot. Regen braking becomes normality very fast (excuse the inverse pun).
*Adam
Member
I have yet another question
Can you use non Tesla Superchargers and if so is there a difference in price and charge time? How do you locate them? If I google map supercharger it just appears to show me the tesla ones.
You can use other EV charging points, there are quite a few around the U.K. Download an app called Zap Map. The model 3 can take Type.2, and CCS. This accounts for the majority of not all charging points in the U.K.
On the aforementioned app you can see the cost of supply. Some are priced by KWh, some are per session.
AC are the slower of the charging points. Where you would either use a tethered type 2 or the type 2 cable supplied with the car. I believe the max is 11KWh.
DC bypass the cars inverter and “pumps juice” straight into the cars batteries. These will be tethered cables iirc. They are referred to as rapid chargers and can deliver upwards of 50KWh.
Thanks, just had a quick look and does appear there are several in my area. I assumed the KW/h was the charge ‘speed’ but that’s the cost is it?
I’ve no idea what your last two paragraphs mean lol.
MrBadger
Badger out
kW is power (speed), kWh is energy (capacity)
Or kW is size of hose, kWh is how bit your bucket is.
Tesla has a big bucket, so bigger the hose the better. Supercharger has a nice big hose and are exclusively Tesla. Other hoses are available, ranging from straws to really big hoses, but really big hoses like Superchargers are very uncommon and you have to share them with every other EV and PHEV.
Typical charge times for LR (miles are ideal range, actual driven range likely to be less), home charging adds 8-30 miles per hour charge, AC (type 2) destination adds 25-35 miles per hour charging, DC (CCS) charging adds 150-200. Most Supercharging V2 takes about 35 minutes (doesn't make sense to give mph as its a very non linear charge rate) to charge 20-90% in ideal conditions - cold weather and having to share a charger will be slower. Non ideal conditions, older charger (eg Warrington), you may be at 41 mins from 60-90%. You don't have to be with car when this is all going - time to do something else whilst car is on charge.
Or kW is size of hose, kWh is how bit your bucket is.
Tesla has a big bucket, so bigger the hose the better. Supercharger has a nice big hose and are exclusively Tesla. Other hoses are available, ranging from straws to really big hoses, but really big hoses like Superchargers are very uncommon and you have to share them with every other EV and PHEV.
Typical charge times for LR (miles are ideal range, actual driven range likely to be less), home charging adds 8-30 miles per hour charge, AC (type 2) destination adds 25-35 miles per hour charging, DC (CCS) charging adds 150-200. Most Supercharging V2 takes about 35 minutes (doesn't make sense to give mph as its a very non linear charge rate) to charge 20-90% in ideal conditions - cold weather and having to share a charger will be slower. Non ideal conditions, older charger (eg Warrington), you may be at 41 mins from 60-90%. You don't have to be with car when this is all going - time to do something else whilst car is on charge.
Thanks, very informative. So for non Tesla chargers DC (CCS) is the one you want ideally?
On a side note can you 'haggle' when buying Teslas or is the price and APR fixed?
No h
ref CCS. - depends on your needs. If your on motorway and need quick charge to get back on your way, then yes. If you’re going to a restaurant, spot of shopping or cinema etc, then trickle charge of 7kW (22kW max really) is best as you’ll be stopping others from charging if you were on a faster charger (as you’d be full and idling, which may incur idle fees).
no haggling. Just have to ride the price fluctuation rollercoaster -although they tend to honour the lower price if you order and the price dips before you collect the car.
ref CCS. - depends on your needs. If your on motorway and need quick charge to get back on your way, then yes. If you’re going to a restaurant, spot of shopping or cinema etc, then trickle charge of 7kW (22kW max really) is best as you’ll be stopping others from charging if you were on a faster charger (as you’d be full and idling, which may incur idle fees).
MrBadger
Badger out
Jason71
Well-Known Member
If you are AC charging then the car has to convert the AC to DC before it can be put into the battery. So for AC charging the limiting factor is the capacity of the AC/DC conversion that the car can perform. In the case of the model3 it is 11KW/h.
For Rapid/Supercharging the charger does the AC/DC conversion so the limit is what the charger can supply or what the battery can handle which is much much higher i.e up to 250KW/h for short periods
Glan gluaisne
Active Member
Some of the more common charging options are:
Type 2 AC charging:
Charge at 10 A (2.3 kW) using the Tesla UMC that comes with the car and plugs into a 13 A outlet
Charge at 30 A to 32 A (~7 kW) from a single phase AC charge point that may be fitted at home, or is often found at destination stops, like hotels and some work places.
Charge at up to 16 A per phase from a three phase AC charge point (~11 kW). These aren't that common.
Rapid DC charging:
Charge at anything from 50 kW to up to 250 kW (when enabled) from a Tesla Supercharger
Charge at anything from 50 kW up to maybe 150 kW from other public rapid chargers.
In terms of charge speed, it may help to think of this in terms of miles of range gained per hour of charging (mph in the list below), for each of the above, these are the rough estimates, assuming 275 Wh/mile (fair weather energy use - this gets worse in cold and wet weather):
AC charging at 10 A ~ 8 mph
AC charging at 30 to 32 A ~ 26 mph
AC charging from 3 phase at 16 A ~ 40 mph
DC charging at 50 kW ~180 mph
DC charging at 150 kW ~ 545 mph
DC charging at 250 kW ~ 909 mph
AC charging at 30 to 32 A ~ 26 mph
AC charging from 3 phase at 16 A ~ 40 mph
DC charging at 50 kW ~180 mph
DC charging at 150 kW ~ 545 mph
DC charging at 250 kW ~ 909 mph
Not sure if the above helps or not, but it may give a better idea as to how long charging takes for any given range increase.
That's great thanks, makes more sense now
I've been trying to think of it like a car, for example I know that my current car takes approx 73 litres to fill it. I was thinking if the Model 3 has say a battery capacity/full charge of 200kW and you charged at 100kW/h then it would take 2 hours to do a full charge but from all the info that you guys have supplied then it doesn't work like this, and that's not how you measure the battery capacity.
So from the info above is you use a 250kW charger this gives you 909 miles per hour charge, is that correct? If so, as the Model 3 LR has a theoretical range of 348 miles then using a 250kW charger it would take (348miles/909mph) = 0.4hours to fully charge the battery from flat?
Jason71
Well-Known Member
For the record an M3 LR battery is about 75KWhThat's great thanks, makes more sense now
I've been trying to think of it like a car, for example I know that my current car takes approx 73 litres to fill it. I was thinking if the Model 3 has say a battery capacity/full charge of 200kW and you charged at 100kW/h then it would take 2 hours to do a full charge but from all the info that you guys have supplied then it doesn't work like this, and that's not how you measure the battery capacity.
So from the info above is you use a 250kW charger this gives you 909 miles per hour charge, is that correct? If so, as the Model 3 LR has a theoretical range of 348 miles then using a 250kW charger it would take (348miles/909mph) = 0.4hours to fully charge the battery from flat?
The AC charge rates are pretty constant e.g. at 7Kw it will be 26 miles per hour and you will get that from 0% to nearly 100% state of charge. So home charging rates are very predictable.
DC rapid charge rates not so much. The Car cannot sustain a rate of 250KW for very long and only at fairly low states of charge so while 250kw is 909 mph you could only get that rate for a few minutes.
The best way to look at rapid charging is charging from 20% to 80% (which is what you typically do on a rapid charger during a journey) on a current gen Tesla supercharger might take 15-20 minutes under optimal conditions but on a third party charger (50kw) or under non optimal supercharger conditions ( cold weather, others using it at the same time, etc) it could take an hour. Unless you have to queue for the charger in which case......
26 miles per sound quite low. My SR+ charges at a consistent 34 miles per hour when I set the current to 32 amps
MrBadger
Badger out
The SR is more efficient than the LR based on official Tesla numbers hence the difference. However, since the 26, 36 etc are based on those figures, they are also mostly meaningless, as they are based on achieving the 225kWh or so for LR and whatever it is for SR.
Glan gluaisne
Active Member
Depends entirely on what you choose to use as a typical energy consumption figure. You can check this in the car, but here are a few examples, ranging from a pretty optimistic 250 Wh/mile to a heavy right foot 400 Wh/mile, for a 32 A charge point with a standard 230 VAC supply, and assuming zero charge losses:
250 Wh/mile consumption = 29.44 mph charge rate
300 Wh/mile consumption = 24.53 mph charge rate
350 Wh/mile consumption = 21.03 mph charge rate
400 Wh/mile consumption = 18.4 mph charge rate
To get your claimed charge rate of 34 mph from a 32 A, 230 VAC charge point, means that your energy consumption figure has to be extraordinarily low, about 216 Wh/mile. At this time of the year that is a very optimistic energy consumption figure; I doubt that many owners will see anything like as low a figure. I've just checked, and our last long trip averaged 294 Wh/mile, and the local trips this week have only managed 368 Wh/mile.
MrBadger
Badger out
Somehow, my wife can somehow achieve 170Wh/mile for 16 mile trips even in these cold conditions. But its mostly down to heater usage.
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