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dark cloud
Active Member
Left my house this morning with a big X over the LTE icon. Did not change after 20 km of driving so did a reboot while driving. It took quite a while to reboot. The conspiracist in me is thinking Tesla purposely sent changes to my eMmc repaired MCU1 to inconvenience me enough to consider the MCU2 so they won’t have to pay to repair it. (they don’t know my eMMC is repaired as it was third party repair)
Or non-conspiracist theory is that I am beginning to be annoyed enough to do the upgrade.
Or non-conspiracist theory is that I am beginning to be annoyed enough to do the upgrade.
Yes, they do. From their report to NHTSA:
So your vehicle won't be on the list to get the recall performed. (Unless you put another Hynix 8GB eMMC back in.)
Here's my recent experience with my late 2017 Model S (around 60K miles, out of warranty), in case it's helpful for anyone else…
I've been having problems with my MCUv1 for more than 12 months. Slowness getting dramatically worse, unexplained reboots (both when driving and parked), features failing to work (voice control, some streaming music), remote access failing.
Initially my local Service Center wasn't able to find any error messages, so therefore nothing was wrong. When my car was in for another issue at the end of 2020, I asked them to again take a look, so they reflashed the MCU and claimed the new software would fix everything. It didn't, and a few weeks later (early 2021) I started to get a "Center screen unavailable" message on the binnacle display, which wouldn't clear after repeated reboots of both screens.
I booked in for a service back in mid-January this year, and based on the error message and remote diagnostics, they immediately ordered the replacement part for the eMMC: MSX VCM TEGRA REV-B/C PROV (64 GB)-REMAN Part #: 2728212-S0-B. They asked me to delay my service appointment until early February so the part had time to arrive; it shipped on 21 January and arrived at the SC on 25 January. My appointment was 1 February.
Completely coincidentally, the MCU screen was dead when I went to start the car and drive a few blocks down the street to the Service Center (luckily I could bypass PIN-to-drive using the mobile app!). I dropped off the car and they said they'd run a few tests, but might need to get a part in for the replacement so it could take a few days. I reminded them that the part had arrived last week, so they agreed it shouldn't take more than a day or so. Later in the day the Service Center called; they had decided that it was not necessary to replace the eMMC yet, and instead they force reflashed the FPGA instead. They didn't have it ready for pickup until close, so I would have to come back the following morning.
Overnight, news of the recall broke (although the Service Center had known about it before my appointment). I sent them a message and asked them whether they were going to send me home with a safety-critical recall not completed on the vehicle, after it had shown pre-failure symptoms *and* they had the spare part in hand. They wisely decided to replace the eMMC board for me.
A few hours later I received a message in the Tesla app and went in to collect my car.
I only did a short drive home after pickup, but it's definitely "less slow" across the board, and feels more responsive. Certain features that had stopped working (or were too laggy to use) are now working again. All settings (profiles, preferences, WiFi, logins) and user data (map locations, history, trips, streaming favorites) came across, with the exception of Bluetooth pairings. I'm still running 2020.48.12.1, which is a little older than most of the fleet.
My vehicle is still showing as needing to have the recall work performed on the NHTSA website, but hopeful that this will be updated by the time the official recall window opens at the end of March 2021.
Maybe now my MCUv1 will last for a few more years, without any major problems in the short term. I'll consider an MCUv2 upgrade at some point in the future (probably when the screen starts to leak…).
I've been having problems with my MCUv1 for more than 12 months. Slowness getting dramatically worse, unexplained reboots (both when driving and parked), features failing to work (voice control, some streaming music), remote access failing.
Initially my local Service Center wasn't able to find any error messages, so therefore nothing was wrong. When my car was in for another issue at the end of 2020, I asked them to again take a look, so they reflashed the MCU and claimed the new software would fix everything. It didn't, and a few weeks later (early 2021) I started to get a "Center screen unavailable" message on the binnacle display, which wouldn't clear after repeated reboots of both screens.
I booked in for a service back in mid-January this year, and based on the error message and remote diagnostics, they immediately ordered the replacement part for the eMMC: MSX VCM TEGRA REV-B/C PROV (64 GB)-REMAN Part #: 2728212-S0-B. They asked me to delay my service appointment until early February so the part had time to arrive; it shipped on 21 January and arrived at the SC on 25 January. My appointment was 1 February.
Completely coincidentally, the MCU screen was dead when I went to start the car and drive a few blocks down the street to the Service Center (luckily I could bypass PIN-to-drive using the mobile app!). I dropped off the car and they said they'd run a few tests, but might need to get a part in for the replacement so it could take a few days. I reminded them that the part had arrived last week, so they agreed it shouldn't take more than a day or so. Later in the day the Service Center called; they had decided that it was not necessary to replace the eMMC yet, and instead they force reflashed the FPGA instead. They didn't have it ready for pickup until close, so I would have to come back the following morning.
Overnight, news of the recall broke (although the Service Center had known about it before my appointment). I sent them a message and asked them whether they were going to send me home with a safety-critical recall not completed on the vehicle, after it had shown pre-failure symptoms *and* they had the spare part in hand. They wisely decided to replace the eMMC board for me.
A few hours later I received a message in the Tesla app and went in to collect my car.I only did a short drive home after pickup, but it's definitely "less slow" across the board, and feels more responsive. Certain features that had stopped working (or were too laggy to use) are now working again. All settings (profiles, preferences, WiFi, logins) and user data (map locations, history, trips, streaming favorites) came across, with the exception of Bluetooth pairings. I'm still running 2020.48.12.1, which is a little older than most of the fleet.
My vehicle is still showing as needing to have the recall work performed on the NHTSA website, but hopeful that this will be updated by the time the official recall window opens at the end of March 2021.
Maybe now my MCUv1 will last for a few more years, without any major problems in the short term. I'll consider an MCUv2 upgrade at some point in the future (probably when the screen starts to leak…).
I think this the most apt summary of 64GB MCU1 refurbishments.
mspohr
Well-Known Member
The browser has always been slow. Interesting that the nav map and streaming seem to have enough priority that they don't lag. The real fix is MCU2 which has a faster processor.
mspohr
Well-Known Member
Do you mean a further discount beyond the $1000 price drop?
You can get the upgraded eMMC card free.
Akikiki
A'-Lo-HA ! y'all
Hey, I don’t mean to sound like a killjoy here, it really makes no difference to me if anyone else upgrades to MCU2. Does not put a penny in my pocket – no referral program. As a matter of fact, I guess I should be hoping no one else upgrades. Because the fewer there are, the better my resale price is going to be when sell to buy new. My MCU2 2017 could be like a few other unicorns out here and make it more attractive sitting new to other MCU1 S’s. So, show me – don’t upgrade.
If we had one of those Tesla stock analysts here looking at the situation of MCU1s to MCU2s, what would they say? I think we have all seen how they drill down into supply lines and costs of each item. Maybe, briefly it would be something like:
Refurbished MCU1 are out of production. All new spares were exhausted two years ago. Replacements come only from rebuilt cores taken from existing S/X. Thin supply to work from is going to handicap refurbishments and resupply. Regardless of costs will there be a MCU1 supply? Could cars be sitting waiting for months for a refurbished MCU1? (The only good news is refurbished MCU1s’ included LTE.)
Tegra 3 daughterboards were out of production. From July-Sep ’20 we saw a spike in availability that was exhausted in Oct. Anyone could visit an SC and pay $400-$600 and have their MCU1 replaced. Many people visited and begrudgingly paid to get fixed what now in Feb ’21 is a free fix. But they did get their car fixed. Were they the lucky ones? Paying $500 to fix their cars will look very good if no one can get a daughterboard now. Will there suddenly be plenty of Tegra 3 daughterboards in supply for the 130,000 recalled cars? I hope so, else this recall could like many recalls stretch out for a decade. This fix will be free, but it free worth waiting weeks/months for a $100 part and a overall cost of $400+?
MCU2 Upgrade stock is in production. The current models cars are still using MCU2. Supply fulfillment for MCU2 looks healthy. The cost to the customer for MCU2 is now $1,500 vice $2,500 last summer/fall. Why did the price fall? Availability of stock? Because its still in production, will there be plenty of MCU2? Did the price come down because of increased volume purchases? Is this a sign the wait for MCU1 parts could be long and the wait for MCU2 upgrades will be short?
We will see in the days and months to come, eh?
If we had one of those Tesla stock analysts here looking at the situation of MCU1s to MCU2s, what would they say? I think we have all seen how they drill down into supply lines and costs of each item. Maybe, briefly it would be something like:
Refurbished MCU1 are out of production. All new spares were exhausted two years ago. Replacements come only from rebuilt cores taken from existing S/X. Thin supply to work from is going to handicap refurbishments and resupply. Regardless of costs will there be a MCU1 supply? Could cars be sitting waiting for months for a refurbished MCU1? (The only good news is refurbished MCU1s’ included LTE.)
Tegra 3 daughterboards were out of production. From July-Sep ’20 we saw a spike in availability that was exhausted in Oct. Anyone could visit an SC and pay $400-$600 and have their MCU1 replaced. Many people visited and begrudgingly paid to get fixed what now in Feb ’21 is a free fix. But they did get their car fixed. Were they the lucky ones? Paying $500 to fix their cars will look very good if no one can get a daughterboard now. Will there suddenly be plenty of Tegra 3 daughterboards in supply for the 130,000 recalled cars? I hope so, else this recall could like many recalls stretch out for a decade. This fix will be free, but it free worth waiting weeks/months for a $100 part and a overall cost of $400+?
MCU2 Upgrade stock is in production. The current models cars are still using MCU2. Supply fulfillment for MCU2 looks healthy. The cost to the customer for MCU2 is now $1,500 vice $2,500 last summer/fall. Why did the price fall? Availability of stock? Because its still in production, will there be plenty of MCU2? Did the price come down because of increased volume purchases? Is this a sign the wait for MCU1 parts could be long and the wait for MCU2 upgrades will be short?
We will see in the days and months to come, eh?
The only people that have a use to purchase MCU2 are cars with MCU1. All of which fall under the recall from the factory (unless card has been replaced recently). So, psychologically it would be nice to see a discount but they could quickly bake it into the initial price so it really makes little difference.
Indeed. And you raise some great points. I suspect NHTSA will have some involvement in pushing Tesla to fix things in a reasonable timeframe, though. Remember that Tesla's own modeling showed a peak in replacements in early 2022.
The open question is whether they can realistically refurb 100K replacement parts (there are plenty of suitable eMMC chips), or need to ramp up a production line to build 100K new ones. If they can't get enough replacement parts in time to meet their own replacement modeling, I'd expect to see fines from NHTSA, or Tesla avoiding fines by doing more low-cost (or even free) MCUv2 upgrades.
mspohr
Well-Known Member
The replacement eMMC board is a small simple circuit. Shouldn't have any problem procuring enough of them for this recall. The only bottleneck would be at the service centers but this should be manageable. The Takata airbag recalls took 10+ years due to supply problems. (My old 2006 Audi didn't get the airbag replaced until 2018)
X Fan
Active Member
And therein lies the problem with recalls. The Government makes noise early on but then falls asleep getting Mfg. to complete the work.
My wife’s Porsche Macan had a gas line recall and it took 18 months to get it fixed. Meanwhile, local dealer said be careful driving it...
Akikiki
A'-Lo-HA ! y'all
(I don't think, but am ignorant) its not reasonable for them to try to refurb daughterboards in a pull, fix and reuse in another car cycle. In July-Sep we heard reports that they cost of the board was only about $100 before labor to install. But its the board is a precious commodity. Can't just stop by NAPA and get a bucket full.
A friend of mine wrote an article about the failure rate. He used data that I collected from TM and TMC for over a year on every instance of failures reported on these forums. Most of the time, I contacted the owner for more details, but I only collected 6 data points. And nothing about who fixed, or the costs or where they lived. Only asked for year, production date, battery, date of failure, mileage and Sor X. And I've not been asked by any company or agency for what I collected. My collection is certainly not all failures. But I believe its a representative sampling across '12-18. I only counted eMMC failures, no simple screen failures. You are welcome to review my friend's article here MCU1 Flash Memory Analysis and Failures – TeslaTap
Think about the process. Its not about obtaining bulk supply of chips the size of a quarter or nickel. The process to remove the old eMMC and install a new eMMC is not a simple sit a any flat surface or table with a soldering iron. I'm not going to look to find them, but check out Youtube for replacing eMMCs on a MCU. This is complex dedicate work. It won't be done at SCs. They up until late have apparently not had plenty of daughterboards. They had been having MCUs disassembled, daughterboards removed, repaired and reinstalled. Not done at the SCs. SCs were only swapping MCUs, then lately swapping daughterboards.He and I agreed to stop trying to collect data in Jan '21 since there is almost no new failures being reported on these forums. Complaints about issues and replacements but too few to mention.
It appears that Tesla got their hands on a big lot of daughterboards in July and they lasted into Sept. But they are again apparently in short supply again. Don't forget, Tesla dis not design or manufacturer/have manufacture these boards. They were bought from nVidia. And no longer in production Did nVidia sell the rights to Tesla to make that summer batch? I don't know. Where else could they have gotten that big batch - I don't know. But they are surely going to need thousands of extras at least even to use some as cores as they swap out the 8 for 64 boards in the coming years.
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mspohr
Well-Known Member
Manufacturing 100,000 daughterboards is trivial is the world of electronic manufacture. It's all automated.
(They are not going to be unsoldering chips from the old boards. Just plug in a new daughterboard.)
I don't think Nvidia is making, or has a supply of, Tegra 3 chips available to make new daughterboards...
Akikiki
A'-Lo-HA ! y'all
I agree. Do they have permission to have a board manufactured they didn't own in the first place.
And my comment about repairing the existing was based on not being permitted to manufacture a designed owned by someone else.
And my comment about repairing the existing was based on not being permitted to manufacture a designed owned by someone else.
mspohr
Well-Known Member
Do you think Tesla would buy a part from someone and not have the right to make/buy spares?
Does the daughterboard contain just the eMMC chip or does it also hold the processor?
It contains the processor as well as a lot of other circuitry/components.
The arrow points to the eMMC chip.
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