Continual supercharging and battery life

[tommie]

I have a supercharger only 3 blocks from my office, and assumed that I would use it whenever I needed charging. Seemed to work fine, but then came my first service center routine maintenance. A very nice associate talked to me while I was waiting for my X100d model, and she warned me against constant supercharging saying it would degrade the battery.

I apologize if this was already a topic. Would appreciate your advice on how often I can use the supercharger....

 

[pkodali]

There isn't any existing evidence that supercharging degrades the battery faster as long as you are charging to a reasonable percentage like 80-90

 

[selfbp]

I have this same predicament except the Supercharger is the only charging resource I have. Fingers crossed nobody is hiding the info behind the scenes!

 

[tommie]

I have this same predicament except the Supercharger is the only charging resource I have. Fingers crossed nobody is hiding the info behind the scenes!

Thank you! I'm reassured.

 

[xyeahtony]

Yes it will degrade your battery but not in any meaningful significant way you’d notice

 

[Christine69420]

The 90 battery will get restricted after too much fast charging ref Teslabjørn:

 

[tommie]

The 90 battery will get restricted after too much fast charging ref Teslabjørn:

Hmm, several replies say no problem then this. Can you give me a little background on Teslabjøm?

 

[stevemc]

When my brother picked up his model 3 he was told not to over use the supercharger because it's to good for the battery. I also found this article where Tesla explained why they reduced the charging speed.

Tesla limits Supercharging Speed

 

[Christine69420]

Hmm, several replies say no problem then this. Can you give me a little background on Teslabjøm?

He is interested in Teslas...

Bjørn Nyland

 

[SubSolar]

Hmm, several replies say no problem then this. Can you give me a little background on Teslabjøm?

Only the most famous Tesla Youtuber ever

Bjørn Nyland Wins Second Tesla Referral Contest

 

[DriverOne]

Ideally, for your own convenience, you'd charge overnight at home. Supercharging was designed to address long-distance travel, when you're away from home. Of course some people have trouble charging fully at home (apartments, 120V only etc), so do end up Supercharging every so often. After significant amounts of Supercharging (estimated 30,000 miles or something like that), your Supercharge speed becomes moderately limited (something like 90kW max vs 120kW max). Still faster charging than anything else out there.

 

[gnuarm]

When using the Superchargers the charging rate can be limited to something lower.

I've always thought it odd that Tesla supports and even promotes usage of the battery in ways that adversely impacts the battery life. For example, rather than giving you the ability to use 100% of the battery charge all the time but to manually set the charging limit back, it would make more sense to me for the safer charge limit to be standard and the longer "trip" range to be a special mode which makes it abundantly clear continual use in this manner would harm the battery.

If repeated fast charging also harms the battery the full Supercharger rate should not be the norm if you are close to home. I've never heard that this is a problem. I've heard reports of batteries lasting over 300,000 miles so clearly if treated properly they can last a very long time, as long as an ICE power train. I'd like to make sure I get that lifespan.

Tesla is talking about batteries and chargers that will charge twice as fast. Personally I would prefer that they get more range so I can stop once for an hour and a half rather than twice for 45 minutes.

 

[TexasEV]

When using the Superchargers the charging rate can be limited to something lower.

No it can’t. You get the max you can get depending on the state of charge of your battery and whether or not another car on the paired charger is charging. Take what you need and move on

 

[Rocky_H]

I've always thought it odd that Tesla supports and even promotes usage of the battery in ways that adversely impacts the battery life. For example, rather than giving you the ability to use 100% of the battery charge all the time but to manually set the charging limit back, it would make more sense to me for the safer charge limit to be standard and the longer "trip" range to be a special mode which makes it abundantly clear continual use in this manner would harm the battery.

That is EXACTLY what they already do. You have to go into the charging screen and specifically, intentionally move it into the "Trips" section of the charging limit, and if you do that a few times, it will "make it abundantly clear continual use in this manner would harm the battery".

Tesla is talking about batteries and chargers that will charge twice as fast. Personally I would prefer that they get more range so I can stop once for an hour and a half rather than twice for 45 minutes.

That's not how that generally works. It is usually more like the choice of one stop for almost an hour, or two stops for 20 minutes. The more frequent stops are shorter and quite a time saver, because you are using the much faster-charging lower portion of the battery capacity.

I'm wondering where you are coming up with these ideas. Do you not have your car yet, so you haven't experienced these things?

 

[jboy210]

That's not how that generally works. It is usually more like the choice of one stop for almost an hour, or two stops for 20 minutes. The more frequent stops are shorter and quite a time saver, because you are using the much faster-charging lower portion of the battery capacity.

In my experience it has been 15-20 minutes for a quick top off, and 40 minutes to supercharge to my full between on long road trips. I avoid going above 92% which is where supercharging really starts to taper the current flow.

 

[Rocky_H]

In my experience it has been 15-20 minutes for a quick top off, and 40 minutes to supercharge to my full between on long road trips. I avoid going above 92% which is where supercharging really starts to taper the current flow.

That is why I think the in-car "Beta Trip Planner" is idiotic, and I won't let it try to pick my Supercharger stops anymore. It seems to have this burning desire to make charge stops as long as possible to try to skip over other Supercharger stops whenever it can, which is a horrible waste of time and feels really uncomfortably inconvenient. It will very frequently recommend 50+ minutes and charging to nearly 100% to skip over a Supercharger and arrive with 7% remaining. That is dangerous nonsense.

 

[gnuarm]

That is EXACTLY what they already do. You have to go into the charging screen and specifically, intentionally move it into the "Trips" section of the charging limit, and if you do that a few times, it will "make it abundantly clear continual use in this manner would harm the battery".

I guess I haven't charged to 100% enough to have seen a warning. You only need to change the max charge limit once and it will forever charge to 100% after that. Why would they not make the potential battery damage clear before you cross an invisible and unknown threshold? That sort of programming just makes the car more confusing and frustrating to use. The charging screen is very simple. A bit of text would go a long way or as I originally suggested, they could just change the actual range to the conservative value with "reserve" like they do in ICE cars. If they are counting something, they should make that counter value and the threshold abundantly clear as well.

That's not how that generally works. It is usually more like the choice of one stop for almost an hour, or two stops for 20 minutes. The more frequent stops are shorter and quite a time saver, because you are using the much faster-charging lower portion of the battery capacity.

That's not how what works? I was talking about how they are working on new batteries with faster charge times with the same range. My point was I'd rather they work on batteries that can give you more range with the same charging rate. Every vehicle I've ever owned would let me drive well over 300 miles before refueling. In the Tesla it is more like 220 at best if I don't want to compromise my battery. That's just over 3 hours of driving before a significant time to recharge.

I'm wondering where you are coming up with these ideas. Do you not have your car yet, so you haven't experienced these things?

Which ideas would these be? I got my model X in August. I have over 6000 miles, mostly on trips. I do very little local driving so my concerns are mostly trip charging.

 

[roblab]

I have this same predicament except the Supercharger is the only charging resource I have.

I can hardly believe this. I can't imagine myself living in a house, rented or owned, or an apartment where I couldn't figure out how to charge overnight instead of driving over somewhere and sitting, and sitting, and sitting, to finally unplugging and driving home again, only to repeat several times a week or month. My time is worth more than that, and I'm retired. I also have figured out how electricity works, how to tighten screws on an outlet, how to run plastic pipe for conduit, how to dig a ditch, etc. Supercharging is one resource. Getting educated is another.

 

[TexasEV]

I guess I haven't charged to 100% enough to have seen a warning. You only need to change the max charge limit once and it will forever charge to 100% after that. Why would they not make the potential battery damage clear before you cross an invisible and unknown threshold? .

Charging to 100% occasionally when you need it for a trip does not cause damage. Charging it to 100% repeatedly and leaving it there does. It’s a cumulative effect, not a threshold of damage or not. If you forget to set the charge level back down to 90%, after three days you get a warning on the screen to not leave it set at 100%. That’s been sufficient warning for everyone else it seems. Also it’s well explained in the manual.

As one data point, I charged my Model S to 100% just before a trip several times/ month over five years with no ill effect. (Typical 5% range loss in 5 years).

 

[gnuarm]

Charging to 100% occasionally when you need it for a trip does not cause damage. Charging it to 100% repeatedly and leaving it there does. It’s a cumulative effect, not a threshold of damage or not. If you forget to set the charge level back down to 90%, after three days you get a warning on the screen to not leave it set at 100%. That’s been sufficient warning for everyone else it seems. Also it’s well explained in the manual.

As one data point, I charged my Model S to 100% just before a trip several times/ month over five years with no ill effect. (Typical 5% range loss in 5 years).

Yes, it is a cumulative effect, like x-rays. At least we take that seriously. My point is I have no idea what the threshold is for "significant" damage and I have no way to measure the damage I am doing other than keeping a notepad in the car and manually tracking the number of times I charge. My understanding is Tesla is keeping track of this and if it whacks your battery they won't be sympathetic.

Nice to know the system will warn me of leaving the setting at 100%. I'm surprised to hear of that. I recall a Tesla owner who is a fairly well known poster somewhere (likely a private blog or something) who ended up getting a new battery around 200k because he always charged to 100% and didn't realize this was doing harm. The word I read was he got a new battery for free because... well Tesla was playing nice with him. I'll keep an eye out for info on him so I can get more details. I don't like to relay what might be fake news.

I have also read that the fast Supercharging is bad for the batteries and at some number of uses Tesla will dial back your charge rate for the rest of your battery life. That would be no fun! Again, no info from Tesla in a manner for you to make informed decisions on how many times you want to use the Superchargers.

Someone told me you can't dial back the Supercharge rate yourself. Is that true that all Supercharger use will be full rate until Tesla decides to dial it back? I need to check this at some point.