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Coronavirus

AlanSubie4Life

Efficiency Obsessed Member
Oct 22, 2018
10,105
12,167
San Diego
Feels really weird to be near the top of one the the good lists....
Sadly still not fast enough. Really looks like we might need to switch to the one-dose strategy, at least in some places (upper Midwest, Florida, NY and environs). Delaying the second dose for 6-7 weeks or so should be enough to get us through this squeeze I think.

Alternatively we could just surge more vaccine to those areas but then we could have whack-a-mole.
 

cwerdna

Active Member
Jul 11, 2012
3,565
2,461
SF Bay Area, CA

I got my 1st Pfizer dose via leftover list at a Walgreens in Antioch, CA (over 80 miles from home) on Friday as I'm not eligible yet. I've only had a sore arm and some fatigue.

My county (Santa Clara) seems to be a mess in terms of supply. I worry about the CA floodgates opening on April 15 (everyone 16+ becomes eligible statewide whereas right now it's 50+ except for some counties that opened it to all 16+). I spent about 3 afternoons calling many pharmacies to ask if they were vaccinating and if they had a WL that non-eligible people could get on. I got on like 6 wait lists and had 3 pharmacies that keep no wait list but say to call each day at x time and you need to be there within y hours.

Many had no WL or were really full (e.g. 100+ entries) and thus closed. Many had no supply.

For Antioch, I got on their WL on Monday and was called about leftovers on Thursday (I couldn't make it due to work deadlines) and Friday (made it). I made it super clear that I wasn't eligible yet per CA guidelines each time I contacted them and when was there. The injection person balked though :O, but luckily, she seemed ok w/me being "essential" due to the 24/7 nature of my (well-known) company's service.

I was in the middle of driving to Home in Stockton that thru many reports was taking anyone, regardless of eligibility after 1 pm. I called them twice to confirm before embarking.

There are numerous Bay Area and CA vaccine hunter FB groups that helped, including crowdsourced Google sheet (which I also added to). There are numerous reports that CSU Bakersfield is taking anyone 16+ w/no residency requirements, despite what California State University, Bakersfield says. Might be good for people in So Cal and Central Valley who aren't eligible yet but want to get it sooner. They are closed Easter Sunday though. Would be good to get confirmation before going on a road trip.

Example reports (you'll need to join the group):

Even Wil Wheaton posted about it.
 
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AlanSubie4Life

Efficiency Obsessed Member
Oct 22, 2018
10,105
12,167
San Diego
seems as if we are getting plenty of vaccine

It probably depends on specifically where you are. NY would do well to be vaccinating people twice as quickly right now. They are not going fast enough. Though honestly NY area seems to have a less severe issue than the Upper Midwest.

To be clear, I still think vaccinations will bring things to a close (final declines) for good (barring new unknown variants) in about four weeks; this is just a question of how many lives we lose unnecessarily in the interim. It’s a tricky problem.

In any case the FDA has decided we’re not going to do single doses, so that is that.
 
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dhanson865

Active Member
Feb 16, 2013
4,618
7,343
Knoxville, Tennessee
You didn't get an appointment when you got the first shot?

Nope, they let us set up our own appointments, they verbally told me to set it for 4 weeks later. Web site says to do that. Nothing setup on the day of the shot and I figured I'd stay flexible and pick a date a few weeks in.

The pharmacy I got it at has this on the website

*** If you received your first dose of vaccine at Volunteer Pharmacy and cannot book an appointment within the recommended time frame, you may come as a walk-in for your second dose within 4 to 6 weeks after your first dose. Please arrive between 12 pm –4 pm, Monday through Friday.***
 
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scottf200

Active Member
Feb 3, 2013
3,981
3,666
Chicagoland ModelX S603
Got our second dose yesterday at Walgreens. Their system automatically sets the second dose 28 days later. If you get J&J, they cancel the appointment. If you get Pfizer (we did) you can reschedule the second dose (starting on day 20) for 21 or more days after the first. We spent way too much time on their system figuring this out. . .
Title: Walgreens to switch second dose of Pfizer COVID vaccine to CDC's recommended timing
USA TODAY 5-Apr-2021
_ Walgreens has been administering the second dose of Pfizer's COVID-19 vaccine a week after federal guidelines say it is ideally delivered, but the chain will change its policy to come into line with the government's recommendations.
_ While the extra time is not feared to be a problem, the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention asked the drugstore chain to follow its guidelines, the New York Times reported Monday.
_ Until now, Walgreens had been administering the second dose of the Pfizer vaccine four weeks after the first, the company confirmed Monday to USA TODAY. Federal guidance is three weeks.
_ "We have been automatically scheduling patients’ second doses to occur a minimum of 28 days following their first dose to ensure that no dose is administered earlier than the authorized intervals and patients are able to complete the series vaccination," Walgreens spokesperson Rebekah Pajak said in an email.
 
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AlanSubie4Life

Efficiency Obsessed Member
Oct 22, 2018
10,105
12,167
San Diego
Michigan is not so fortunate, but we're quite fortunate that as a nation what is happening in Michigan is not happening in more places. It's interesting how much worse it is than anywhere else. Though there are early signals elsewhere, we'll see whether or not they actually have time to explode as vaccination continues. Just a few weeks away now from a level of immunity where rapid outbreak growth will be difficult...hopefully.


Good thread showing the basic breakdown of cases & hospitalization by age. Definitely need to continue to get older people vaccinated!
 
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dhanson865

Active Member
Feb 16, 2013
4,618
7,343
Knoxville, Tennessee
Title: Walgreens to switch second dose of Pfizer COVID vaccine to CDC's recommended timing
USA TODAY 5-Apr-2021
I looked up the CDC page for Moderna and it still has 28 days listed there. Not sure why they moved to 3 weeks for Pfizer and stay at 4 weeks for Moderna.

 

AlanSubie4Life

Efficiency Obsessed Member
Oct 22, 2018
10,105
12,167
San Diego
Not sure why they moved to 3 weeks for Pfizer and stay at 4 weeks for Moderna.

Maybe I'm confused by what you're asking, but that's because those are the recommended intervals that were tested during the clinical trials, so that is what the CDC is recommending (3 weeks for Pfizer, 4 weeks for Moderna).
 

cwerdna

Active Member
Jul 11, 2012
3,565
2,461
SF Bay Area, CA
For those in So Cal, Central Valley or on your way between Nor Cal and So Cal, if you're not eligible yet per CA guidelines and had hesitancy about CSUB given what their web page said... finally California State University, Bakersfield has been updated to say
Now Open to Everyone 16 and Older

The CSUB Mass Vaccination Hub is now open to everyone 16 years and older. The hub is open seven days a week, from 8 a.m. to 6 p.m. at the Student Recreation Center. Appointments can be made at California’s My Turn website or you may simply walk in without an appointment.

The vaccinations are free, and the entire process takes approximately 40 to 60 minutes.
 

TespaceX

Member
May 1, 2020
472
719
CA
Michigan is not so fortunate, but we're quite fortunate that as a nation what is happening in Michigan is not happening in more places. It's interesting how much worse it is than anywhere else. Though there are early signals elsewhere, we'll see whether or not they actually have time to explode as vaccination continues. Just a few weeks away now from a level of immunity where rapid outbreak growth will be difficult...hopefully.


Good thread showing the basic breakdown of cases & hospitalization by age. Definitely need to continue to get older people vaccinated!

Almost 300 known breakthrough cases and 3 deaths so far in Michigan among the vaccinated population. Likely more that haven’t been reported yet.
 

dhanson865

Active Member
Feb 16, 2013
4,618
7,343
Knoxville, Tennessee
Maybe I'm confused by what you're asking, but that's because those are the recommended intervals that were tested during the clinical trials, so that is what the CDC is recommending (3 weeks for Pfizer, 4 weeks for Moderna).

* Walgreens was doing 4 weeks for Pfizer, 4 weeks for Moderna
* CDC says 3 weeks Pfizer, 4 weeks Moderna

* why was walgreens not on the same page to begin with?
* why did they change? (note the answer to that isn't to follow CDC guidance, it has to explain why the change, not what they changed to, or who they decided to follow).

if you want to go back and talk about 3 weeks pfizer vs 4 weeks moderna you could ask

* why did pfizer choose 3 weeks
* why did moderna choose 4 weeks

it all comes back to walgreens starting it but there are a dozen questions that can be talked about here once you start the conversation.

and if all you have is "that's what the clinical trials did" and "the CDC follows the trials" I got that already, no need to comment.
 
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AlanSubie4Life

Efficiency Obsessed Member
Oct 22, 2018
10,105
12,167
San Diego
why was walgreens not on the same page to begin with?
They said it was easier to administer (which does not meet FDA/CDC guidance).

From NY Times:
‘Using the same gap for both vaccines was “the easiest way to stand up the process based on our capabilities at the time,” Dr. Kevin Ban, Walgreens’s chief medical officer, said in an interview.’
why did they change? (note the answer to that isn't to follow CDC guidance, it has to explain why the change, not what they changed to, or who they decided to follow).
I guess I don’t understand. My understanding is that the government asked them to get with the program and follow the guidance, so I don’t see how that is not the answer? It caught the attention of the government, and they were asked to change their system.

I’m just really confused here, sorry. Not trying to be flip, I am just not following where the confusion is. Walgreens was doing what they were doing because it was easier for them, and they probably wanted to avoid accidentally administering Moderna doses 3 weeks apart (another hazard). Still, does not seem that complicated a problem to resolve.
 
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dhanson865

Active Member
Feb 16, 2013
4,618
7,343
Knoxville, Tennessee
They said it was easier to administer (which does not meet FDA/CDC guidance).

From NY Times:
‘Using the same gap for both vaccines was “the easiest way to stand up the process based on our capabilities at the time,” Dr. Kevin Ban, Walgreens’s chief medical officer, said in an interview.’

I guess I don’t understand. My understanding is that the government asked them to get with the program and follow the guidance, so I don’t see how that is not the answer? It caught the attention of the government, and they were asked to change their system.

I’m just really confused here, sorry. Not trying to be flip, I am just not following where the confusion is. Walgreens was doing what they were doing because it was easier for them, and they probably wanted to avoid accidentally administering Moderna doses 3 weeks apart (another hazard). Still, does not seem that complicated a problem to resolve.

you keep answering "what" questions, I'm asking "why" questions. Until you get out of the "what" mindset you won't be answering my questions.

The who and what and how are obvious in this situation, it is the why that is at question.
 
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cwerdna

Active Member
Jul 11, 2012
3,565
2,461
SF Bay Area, CA
They said it was easier to administer (which does not meet FDA/CDC guidance).
For Pfizer, per Pfizer-BioNTech COVID-19 Vaccine Information | CDC, 4 weeks isn't too bad.
Persons age 16 years and older should receive 2 doses at least 21 days apart.
  • Second doses should be administered as close to the recommended interval as possible.
    • If it is not feasible to adhere to the recommended interval, you may schedule the second dose up to 6 weeks (42 days) after the first dose; there is limited efficacy data beyond this window, but a dose after this time does not need to be repeated.
 

AlanSubie4Life

Efficiency Obsessed Member
Oct 22, 2018
10,105
12,167
San Diego

you keep answering "what" questions, I'm asking "why" questions. Until you get out of the "what" mindset you won't be answering my questions.

The who and what and how are obvious in this situation, it is the why that is at question.
I already provided some whys.

Why did they do it this way? It was easier for them. This is completely believable for an automated system, though it is also fairly sad.

Why did they change? The government asked them to.

Why did Pfizer choose 3 weeks? Their data and experience and weighing of the risks suggested that was the best balance, probably. It’s basically the same as four weeks (rounding error). Has to be integer weeks.

What other why questions do you have? It’s fine to ask why questions, I am just saying I have no idea what why questions you are asking - like I said, not trying to be obtuse here - I genuinely have no idea what is not clear about this story, for any of the 5 Ws.

Yeah it is likely totally fine and possibly better. No one knows really.
 
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AlanSubie4Life

Efficiency Obsessed Member
Oct 22, 2018
10,105
12,167
San Diego
Almost 300 known breakthrough cases and 3 deaths so far in Michigan among the vaccinated population. Likely more that haven’t been reported yet.
It’ll be interesting to see the final stats. This certainly is not a surprise. This is why we all get vaccinated - to protect these people who were also vaccinated but for whom it didn’t work!
 

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