Daniel in SD
(supervised)
I believe it's the same thing. The CDC calls it a "therapeutic option".
Coronavirus Disease 2019 (COVID-19)
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Coronavirus
- Thread starter Wenche
- Start date
Coronavirus Disease 2019 (COVID-19)
bkp_duke
Well-Known Member
Yes, this is, unfortunately, not unique to SARS-CoV-2. We see "myocarditis" to varying degrees from other viruses, with coxsackievirus being the classic example.
I also read a few case reports about SARS-CoV-2 causing encephalitis in a few individuals.
HG Wells
Martian Embassy
And you thought the freezer was safe.
The Tyson pork plant in Columbus Junction is suspending operations after more than two dozen employees tested positive for COVID-19.
Tyson plant in Columbus Junction suspends operations after 24+ test positive for COVID-19
The Tyson pork plant in Columbus Junction is suspending operations after more than two dozen employees tested positive for COVID-19.
Tyson plant in Columbus Junction suspends operations after 24+ test positive for COVID-19
bkp_duke
Well-Known Member
And now I know why Sagebrush loves to put people on the ignore list.
The study reported has as much validity as the ones you "cling" to so desperately.
Norwegians get BCG too. And today our Minister of Health said that we have the epidemic under control. Our R-number is 0.7 with the normal disclaimers ofcourse.
And correlation is not causation etc. But I find it interesting.
SageBrush
REJECT Fascism
Boris Johnson moved to the ICU.
Not to worry though -- doctor trump is "sure he will be fine."
Not to worry though -- doctor trump is "sure he will be fine."
The Kaiser Health News site is geared towards educating the general populace. I’m surprised the news of this hasn’t been rolled out more in the news/press updates when talking to the public. Kids/young adults/middle aged adults particularly with families to provide for might take stay-in-place more seriously if they realized getting infected could compromise their heart as well. For whatever reason heart disease seems to catch more people’s attention than lung. As someone with allergies/asthma I was immediately concerned about the lung issues when I heard the 3 symptoms being mentioned. Has kept me in place. Once had an allergic reaction where my airways constricted, found myself gasping for air and feeling like I was going to die from not getting air. Got so lightheaded I laid down not knowing if I’d die there on the bed. Room kind of spun as I recall. Couldn’t bring myself to even sit up or move from the bed. Not being able to breathe is not how I want to die and I feel for all who go in ICU with these conditions and need to be ventilated.
bubb
Member
A big thanks from me to the (understandably frustrated) medical professionals in this thread for sharing their professional opinions on these HCQ studies thus far. Many people (some with Ph.D.s!) "can read a statistical study", but only those with experience in their field have any hope of putting such things in the context necessary to judge the importance/impact.
AlanSubie4Life
Efficiency Obsessed Member
Malaysia's looking pretty bad for CFR. They have a 6.5% positive rate for testing (though their tests per capita is only 1700/million), with about 3.8k cases. But a 6.5% positive rate suggests decent capture, at least. So perhaps not too much case undercounting...
Their current CFR is 1.6%, which is likely to get considerably worse before all is said and done. (Sounds like they have about 50 more people who are about to die. WHO Expects Malaysia's Coronavirus Cases to Peak in Mid-April ) So looks like they are on target for at least a 2.5% CFR.
In isolation, it looks like this datapoint suggests that HCQ could make things worse!
But of course, it is not really meaningful to use this type of data to assess HCQ effectiveness. There are simply too many confounding factors.
jhm
Well-Known Member
OMG, this could totally derail Brexit!
That's a fair question, @ohmman . I would say that even the proponents of using using HCQ believe that once the disease has progressed into ARDS, it is too late to get significant benefit from the drug. In fact, it's possible the drug could even be detrimental at that point, owing to its side-effects. Including 8 patients with pre-existing conditions in the study rendered it anything but a random trial. Finally, the conclusion reached in the article (and perhaps in the paper as well) was that HCQ does not show efficacy for the treatment of COVID-19. A much fairer conclusion would be that once the disease has progressed into the lungs, HCQ does not show efficacy. It's too small and too tainted a study to draw huge conclusions from, but at least a much fairer conclusion could have been reached.
So, to answer your original question, I would say the reasons why this study looks like there was an attempt to set it up in a fashion to reach the conclusion that HCQ treatment lacks efficacy are:
* The study was only 11 patients in size
* 8 of the 11 patients had pre-existing conditions
* All of the patients had already reached a severe stage of the disease, indicating less time for the drug to do its work before ARDS set in.
* The conclusion (at least the conclusion reached in the article) was HCQ does not show efficacy for COVID-19 treatment when the only possibly-honest conclusion to reach is that it is not likely a suitable treatment for COVID-19 patients who have already reached a severe stage of the disease.
I couldn’t find a video of his press update from inside stadium today but did locate coverage of it on KPIX’s site for the surge planning (only part of his talk). Not word for word but below is what he said about the peak in May. He spent a decent amount of time explaining the Stage 1 accumulation of necessary equipment/beds etc for the anticipated surge, more in article. At one point I do recall him bringing up the projections his team has been working on but don’t see it mentioned in this article.
“Newsom said that the goal for what he called “Phase 1” of the state’s response through the end of April was to have 50,000 beds available to accommodate the spike in patients as cases of coronavirus surges into mid-May.”
“Newsom said the state was on schedule to acquire the 50,000 beds for mid-May surge. So far, the state has had over 81,000 medical professionals apply to help on new website set up by state last week for staffing.”
Gov. Newsom: State Making Progress To Meet Medical Site And Bed Goals For COVID-19 Surge
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Seriously, @bkp_duke , you really need to remove ridicule from your quiver of arrows in this thread. You're an intelligent physician and an important contributor to the forum. Don't use that standing to unleash low techniques for silencing others. You're a better man than that (I hope).
jhm
Well-Known Member
Is there any bacon left in the supermarkets?
Seriously, the bigger issue here is that industrial food workers are put at risk to keep these processing plants open. These workers don't get paid well to begin with, but they are inclined to keep working even when sick out of financial necessity. We could see more food factories close.
Enjoy your processed foods while they are available.
SageBrush
REJECT Fascism
The study reports "Near zero" transmission above mean maximum temperature of 72.5 F.
Average high temperature in Fremont:
April 69 F
May 72 F
June 75 F
Climate Fremont - California and Weather averages Fremont
Edit: While anecdotes shouldn't trump data I am a bit skeptical of this "hard" upper limit since, for example, Miami and Tampa have average high temperatures of 80F and 76 F in March, but Florida cases still seem to be growing ....
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bkp_duke
Well-Known Member
Published today in JAMA:
Baseline Characteristics and Outcomes of 1591 Patients Infected With SARS-CoV-2 Admitted to ICUs of the Lombardy Region, Italy
Full paper attached as a PDF for those that may not have access to the website.
Very good data here from nearly 1600 ICU patients. Most had at least one pre-existing medical condition. Vast majority were male. 26% of those admitted to the ICU died (this surprised me, I was expecting it to be higher).
Baseline Characteristics and Outcomes of 1591 Patients Infected With SARS-CoV-2 Admitted to ICUs of the Lombardy Region, Italy
Full paper attached as a PDF for those that may not have access to the website.
Very good data here from nearly 1600 ICU patients. Most had at least one pre-existing medical condition. Vast majority were male. 26% of those admitted to the ICU died (this surprised me, I was expecting it to be higher).
The published title of the study is: No Evidence of Rapid Antiviral Clearance or Clinical Benefit with the Combination of Hydroxychloroquine and Azithromycin in Patients with Severe COVID-19 Infection
Doesn't that jive with precisely what you state above? Do you still believe it's a conspiracy to hide valid treatment for some unknown reason?
The most important thing you can do when it comes to studies of any type is read a headline, scroll through the "article" until you find a link to the study, and read the study instead of the article. If the article doesn't include a link to the study, ignore the headline as well.
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