Welcome to Tesla Motors Club
Discuss Tesla's Model S, Model 3, Model X, Model Y, Cybertruck, Roadster and More.
Register

Coronavirus

This site may earn commission on affiliate links.
I guess we'll see the results of the trials. It doesn't sound like they've done any double-blind placebo-controlled randomized trials for vitamin C for COVID-19 yet, based on my perusal of the published data.
As I posted half a dozen times, the clinical trials in China are underway.

I did find that what is claimed on one of the websites you posted is false: (Shanghai government has not approved Vitamin-C as a treament.)

No, the Shanghai government has not recommended intravenous vitamin C as a treatment for COVID-19

As I posted before, that article is disinformation. If you read beyond the headline and first part of the article, you'll find it contradicted by two academic scientists (and a false claim that they didn't contract it). I quoted the scientists here:
Coronavirus

Edit: I'm all for skepticism. How about applying it to unreferenced articles on the Internet.

It sounds like we'll find out whether it actually has an effect later in the year - if the results are significant enough, anyway.

It sounds like it can be a painful treatment, and there are contraindications, but in many cases perhaps there would be no downside (I'm not a doctor so I have no idea).
IV-C is not painful, and the contraindications are rare (G6PD deficiency) and probably irrelevant when a patient is dying. You can read about the safety here:
Vitamin C Evidence for Treating Complications of COVID-19 and other Viral Infections
 
Last edited:
You just don't stop do you. I haven't read this thread in like 2 weeks and I come by to check out the madness and you are still going on and on. You okay bro? Please stop acting like this is some fringe theory Elon is posting about. Do you work for the CDC or something? It doesn't look like you have anything to say that would convince anyone otherwise except just going on and on about how stupid Elon is and your "fringe" theory.
It's no longer a fringe theory, that's the problem!
Elon is a smart guy, it would be nice if he could offer some proof of this global conspiracy.
Why is every country involved? What's the motivation?
Elon has said he believes the numbers out of China. Does he think it became way less deadly when it got out of China? Inquiring minds want to know.
 
Last edited:
So states are reopening, instead of bringing the levels down for test & trace. Did any (reasonable) scientist recommend that? I don't think so.

So what happened? They got the impression that that's what people want, those who made more noise and got media attention by ignoring social distancing. That people will tolerate a death rate of 2,000 per day. It seems even more for lifestyle than for economics. Is that a more likely explanation? I think so.

Will that cause Rt, the infection rate to go above 1? I think so.

So the new way to predict total deaths is not from understanding the COVID-19 dynamics, but from understanding the public opinion dynamics.

At which level will public opinion dynamics change back towards mitigation or going for test & trace ? Perhaps only at 500K ?

At some point the world will realize what has happened, and the US will lose its innovation leadership reputation in the world, it will cease to be the home of advanced research.
 
It's not a fringe theory, that's the problem!
Elon is a smart guy, it would be nice if he could offer some proof of this global conspiracy.
Why is every country involved? What's the motivation?
Elon has said he believes the numbers out of China. Does he think it became way less deadly when it got out of China? Inquiring minds want to know.

there's just no rebuttal at all to the facts that there is an undercount and not an overcount. and that labeling deaths as caused by covid is not some nefarious thing
 
Elon Musk on Twitter

"@slashdot Important to distinguish died with covid vs died because of covid. Also, distinguish between tested positive for covid or only had symptoms."

Just mindbogglingly stupid. im sure people have tried to explain why this isn't evidence of some conspiracy, why the numbers are undercounted if anything but he just doesn't care

Yep, and he wouldn't be wasting his time with this crap if he had a better way "out" of this situation. The only (very cynical) strategy I can see is that he is rallying public support to reopen at any cost because he sees no other viable path. I'd be happy to be wrong, but it is distressing to say the least.
 
As I posted half a dozen times, the clinical trials in China are underway.

I didn't say they weren't doing them. I said they hadn't done them. Big difference. Obviously I know they are doing them.

If you read beyond the headline and first part of the article, you'll find it contradicted by two academic scientists (and a false claim that they didn't contract it).

I read the entire article including the comments of the scientists from U of Otago at the end. Those scientists say "unfortunately for many years lots of claims have been made both by proponents and skeptical medical doctors that are not founded in fact." and "Interestingly, a clinical trial for administration of vitamin C to patients with coronavirus has been registered in China. This will take the hype out of the discussions, hopefully." and "We really have no idea whether having more vitamin C will prevent anyone contracting the coronavirus." and "Clinical trials are currently underway to assess the effects of high-dose intravenous vitamin C in patients with COVID-19, however, the results from these studies are not likely to be available until later in the year."

All seems very reasonable - and the answer is we don't yet know.
 
  • Informative
Reactions: KG M3 and madodel
Yep, and he wouldn't be wasting his time with this crap if he had a better way "out" of this situation. The only (very cynical) strategy I can see is that he is rallying public support to reopen at any cost because he sees no other viable path. I'd be happy to be wrong, but it is distressing to say the least.

I don't think it's that deep, he's just following selective biased bad science. He said this dude Levitt rocks and I just read an article summing up his views and they are incredibly dumb. One example is he cites Germany as not having done a full lockdown when their lockdown has been more strict than ours or the UK based on mobility data. Just surface level reasoning without bothering to look at the data any deeper.

his central point that the spread stops once a certain level of herd immunity is in the population is just flat out wrong. Germany, SK, Australia and numerous other countries didn’t achieve a suppression of the curve through herd immunity

Nobel prize-winning scientist: the Covid-19 epidemic was never exponential - The Post
 
Last edited:
So states are reopening, instead of bringing the levels down for test & trace

To be fair, they aren't really going back to normal, and they are still increasing test & trace capacity.

Will that cause Rt, the infection rate to go above 1? I think so.

I am not so sure. Obviously there's going to be an increase in cases, but if testing and tracing is scaled up in parallel, it's possible this will result in an optimal outcome (not optimal for the additional people who will die, however) - commerce opened on a limited basis, while public health catches up.

I think there's likely to be a few screw-ups in some states, but in general I'm optimistic about the prospects as long as testing & tracing continues to scale up. Definitely lives will be lost as a result.

I'm not sure it's quite as grim a picture as the media is painting it to be. Time will tell. In spite of the focus on people not wearing masks, etc., a lot of people are being more careful. That will help.

People are also staying home (the economy won't be coming back any time soon regardless of reopening). So combination of:

1) Reduced mobility
2) Improved sanitation
3) Improved containment by public health
4) Possible increase in heat very slightly reducing transmissibility

Combined, may still result in a slow steady decline.

The continued underperformance of the economy is going to place huge value on testing & tracing. (Think of the major sporting leagues, etc. - many tens of billions of dollars there, likely hundreds of billions.) They can't do anything until the virus is gone, so there's going to be massive, widespread testing, sooner rather than later (don't think there's really any other way out of it - temperature checks and such don't work).

I'm not saying it's as good as it would have been if we'd had some leadership, but I think we'll stumble along and survive. Still hoping we manage to keep deaths below about 160k by August.
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: kbM3
It's no longer a fringe theory, that's the problem!
Elon is a smart guy, it would be nice if he could offer some proof of this global conspiracy.
Why is every country involved? What's the motivation?
Elon has said he believes the numbers out of China. Does he think it became way less deadly when it got out of China? Inquiring minds want to know.

So what you are saying is that you all can't figure it out and you need Elon to explain it to you? Yea, you guys just stay inside your holes. Don't worry, you will be safe there and we will all be better for it. Talk about sad.
 
So what you are saying is that you all can't figure it out and you need Elon to explain it to you? Yea, you guys just stay inside your holes. Don't worry, you will be safe there and we will all be better for it. Talk about sad.
Yes, that is what I'm saying. I'm hoping a smart person can explain it to me.
You're certainly not doing a good job. :p
 
You guys post here literally all day and nite and you've made no progress from I can tell. Don't you have yard work to do or something?

We have discussed and refuted the "over count" theory a long time ago. It sounds like you have a lot of catching up to do, as the signal/noise ratio in your messages is close to zero.
 
The stuff Elon is quoting isn't high-quality, peer-reviewed research. It's the sort of crap that gets forwarded around the internet. Elon isn't a research scientist. He's a businessman with some science in his education background. What we're learning about Elon is that he is gullible, and that while he is smart he still falls for internet nonsense. Especially when he's isolated and bored.
 
I read the entire article including the comments of the scientists from U of Otago at the end. Those scientists say "unfortunately for many years lots of claims have been made both by proponents and skeptical medical doctors that are not founded in fact." and "Interestingly, a clinical trial for administration of vitamin C to patients with coronavirus has been registered in China. This will take the hype out of the discussions, hopefully." and "We really have no idea whether having more vitamin C will prevent anyone contracting the coronavirus." and "Clinical trials are currently underway to assess the effects of high-dose intravenous vitamin C in patients with COVID-19, however, the results from these studies are not likely to be available until later in the year."
You have cherrypicked your quotes from the scientists. The sentences you left out between the ones you quoted are (emphasis added):

However, as it is a viral pneumonia, there is a distinct possibility that additional vitamin C may help with treatment. There are no studies with this virus that show this, but some benefit has been suggested with other severe respiratory illnesses.

People with severe respiratory infections, such as pneumonia, have depleted vitamin C status, partly due to the enhanced oxidative stress that occurs during the inflammatory process[3]. Administration of recommended dietary intakes (e.g. up to 200 mg/day) of vitamin C to these people is not sufficient to overcome the enhanced utilization of the vitamin[1]; they instead require intravenous administration of gram doses (i.e. 2,000 mg/day)[4].

One recent clinical study has indicated that intravenous vitamin C may be able to decrease mortality in patients with severe pneumonia[5], which is a major complication of COVID-19.

No, the Shanghai government has not recommended intravenous vitamin C as a treatment for COVID-19

All seems very reasonable - and the answer is we don't yet know.
We don't know for sure if vitamin C will prevent or cure COVID-19. But it is very likely that adequate vitamin C (with other nutrients essential for the immune system) can help prevent infection by this virus, like other viruses, and that IV-C can help cure this viral pneumonia, like other viral pneumonias.

Denying people a cheap and nontoxic treatment, by censoring news of its promise or saying "we don't yet know," is likely condemning thousands to unnecessary death... and very bad medicine.
 
Meanwhile......

Trumpers finally getting the message on facemask

kkk-hood.jpg

I didn't realize this was from the outlying community of Santee (locally, sort of jokingly-if-you-think-that-sort-of-thing-is-funny, known as "Klantee").

So, appropriate. I guess.

Sheriff's Department investigating after man wears KKK hood while grocery shopping in Santee
 
Last edited:
  • Informative
Reactions: madodel
We have discussed and refuted the "over count" theory a long time ago. It sounds like you have a lot of catching up to do, as the signal/noise ratio in your messages is close to zero.

Oh, the experts at the TSLA Investors Coronavirus thread have officially refuted the over count theory, lol. You guys sound more insane than conspiracy theorists. Maybe you could help out Dr. Birx...she isn't too good at providing an answer nor is the CDC. I'm sure Elon is just trolling you guys then. No worries.

Back to your regularly scheduled fear mongering.
 
  • Disagree
Reactions: Mader Levap
You have cherrypicked your quotes from the scientists.

Yes, but that was basically a summary of what a scientist would say, and I wanted to make it clear that they were not making any claims about efficacy with respect to COVID-19. None of their statements were in regards to efficacy on COVID-19 (even the pneumonia one).

We don't know for sure if vitamin C will prevent or cure COVID-19. But it is very likely that adequate vitamin C (with other nutrients essential for the immune system) can help prevent infection by this virus, like other viruses, and that IV-C can help cure this viral pneumonia, like other viral pneumonias.

Exactly, we don't know. That was my point. We will see. Doctors who treat patients I am sure are extremely aware of the possibility of vitamin-C being helpful, and it would not surprise me if its use was common in some areas already, where it would not be contraindicated, if those treating physicians thought it was a good idea. (But to be clear I have no idea.)
 
  • Informative
Reactions: madodel
We don't know for sure if vitamin C will prevent or cure COVID-19. But it is very likely that adequate vitamin C (with other nutrients essential for the immune system) can help prevent infection by this virus, like other viruses, and that IV-C can help cure this viral pneumonia, like other viral pneumonias.

I'm a board-certified physician, and I have a Ph.D. in molecular biology. I've had to use viruses in the lab to further study of metabolism (adenovirus, to be exact). I know scientific method, I know how to parse the junk science from the legitimate science.

You are trying to say just because there isn't evidence AGAINST Vitamin C working, that it COULD work. On the scientific grading scale, that's not evidence in favor of your conclusion. But in psychology it is called a "rationalization" - i.e. coming up with a borderline plausible argument to try to justify one's viewpoint instead of looking objectively at the evidence.

One month ago this forum was ABUZZ with the same arguments regarding hydroxychloroquine. And to be blunt, there was a lot more evidence that it could be a viable treatment against COVID-19 than what you have laid out for Vitamin C. One month later, we see how that has turned out (overwhelming evidence that it does NOT help, and that there are a large number of people with significant side effects).

I would LOVE for something as stupid simple as Vitamin C to be a cure-all for COVID-19. The problem is this is the proverbial "boy that cried wolf" story. Over the past 20 years Vitamin C has been proposed as a treatment for many many different infections. Different groups and governments have poured hundreds of millions of dollars into research into Vitamin C (and D, for that matter). The overwhelming conclusions are that . . . it's a Vitamin. You don't have enough, you have a MILD predisposition toward infection. You are WAY under on Vitamin C, you get scurvy. These are not new findings. We have know this for decades, and all the money spent did not further that knowledge base.

The difference between a trained scientist, and a lay person is that a scientist knows how to read ALL the literature on a subject, evaluate both sides of the argument, and weigh the evidence accordingly and plan out experiments to answer any questions that are unanswered. The lay person just reads one article (or more likely, one TITLE of an article) and forms a ROCK-SOLID opinion based upon that single piece of information, that most likely confirms some bias they already have.

I STRONGLY get the "holistic medicine is better" vibe from you, and that taints anything you could possibly say here. What is worse is that the "studies" you have presented really are not very good in their design. They are either case series (the weakest of all evidence in medical field because they are small in number of subjects) or on-going studies that are not double-blinded and randomized.

And before you tell me that I'm in bed with "the man" and paid off by big pharma, etc. I'll stop you right there. I left medicine after the *sugar*-show that it turned into due to Obamacare. I am still board certified, licensed, and keep up with the latest research, but I do NOT take a penny from anyone for anything medically-related. I run a business, un-related to the health sciences, and my home life is all the better for it.


If you want to super-juice on Vitamin C, have at it. I won't recommend against it because (unlike hydroxychloroquine) there are no harsh side effects like hydroxychloroquine had. You might get some flushing, headaches, nausea, vomiting, diarrhea, etc. but your heart will keep ticking and you will keep breathing. Just don't pimp it out UNTIL the HARD DATA is in. And contrary to what you are saying the HARD DATA is definitely NOT in to support this as a COVID-19 cure-all, preventative, or treatment.
 
Oh, the experts at the TSLA Investors Coronavirus thread have officially refuted the over count theory, lol. You guys sound more insane than conspiracy theorists. Maybe you could help out Dr. Birx...she isn't too good at providing an answer nor is the CDC. I'm sure Elon is just trolling you guys then. No worries.

Back to your regularly scheduled fear mongering.

If you want to know, I think Elon is acting like a teenager who got grounded and wants to escape through the back window.