I'm a board-certified physician, and I have a Ph.D. in molecular biology. I've had to use viruses in the lab to further study of metabolism (adenovirus, to be exact). I know scientific method, I know how to parse the junk science from the legitimate science.
You are trying to say just because there isn't evidence AGAINST Vitamin C working, that it COULD work.
No, doctor. I am saying there is strong
preliminary evidence that it works for COVID-19... so strong that clinical trials were launched immediately in China, and Chinese health authorities (Shanghai Medical Association, Guangdong Province Expert Panel) recommended it in the meantime, and the largest hospital system in NY is using it, and a group of eight distinguished critical care doctors around the country published an urgent press release about it, to try to do what the CDC has failed to do.
Cheng Integrative Health Center Blog
https://nypost.com/2020/03/24/new-york-hospitals-treating-coronavirus-patients-with-vitamin-c/
https://covid19criticalcare.com/wp-...seTreating-Covid-19-in-ER-April-15-2030_3.pdf
On the scientific grading scale, that's not evidence in favor of your conclusion. But in psychology it is called a "rationalization" - i.e. coming up with a borderline plausible argument to try to justify one's viewpoint instead of looking objectively at the evidence.
This is the coal mine calling the kettle black. Your post indicates you haven't looked at the evidence I linked at all, much less objectively.
One month ago this forum was ABUZZ with the same arguments regarding hydroxychloroquine. And to be blunt, there was a lot more evidence that it could be a viable treatment against COVID-19 than what you have laid out for Vitamin C. One month later, we see how that has turned out (overwhelming evidence that it does NOT help, and that there are a large number of people with significant side effects).
I would LOVE for something as stupid simple as Vitamin C to be a cure-all for COVID-19. The problem is this is the proverbial "boy that cried wolf" story. Over the past 20 years Vitamin C has been proposed as a treatment for many many different infections. Different groups and governments have poured hundreds of millions of dollars into research into Vitamin C (and D, for that matter). The overwhelming conclusions are that . . . it's a Vitamin. You don't have enough, you have a MILD predisposition toward infection. You are WAY under on Vitamin C, you get scurvy. These are not new findings. We have know this for decades, and all the money spent did not further that knowledge base.
Yet again we have a self-declared authority appealing to his/her authority, without offering a single piece of credible supporting evidence, much less linking it. Sorry, that does not cut it scientifically.
The difference between a trained scientist, and a lay person is that a scientist knows how to read ALL the literature on a subject, evaluate both sides of the argument, and weigh the evidence accordingly and plan out experiments to answer any questions that are unanswered. The lay person just reads one article (or more likely, one TITLE of an article) and forms a ROCK-SOLID opinion based upon that single piece of information, that most likely confirms some bias they already have.
I quoted and linked statements from two trained scientists who are specialists in vitamin C:
Professor Margreet Vissers, Our people, Centre for Free Radical Research, University of Otago, New Zealand
Associate Professor Anitra Carr, Our people, University of Otago, Christchurch, University of Otago, New Zealand
Their statements, including references to the scientific literature, directly contradicted the claim you posted without evidence. Yet you have failed to reply with anything except Disagree ratings and ad hominem attacks.
I STRONGLY get the "holistic medicine is better" vibe from you, and that taints anything you could possibly say here.
Clearly.
What is worse is that the "studies" you have presented really are not very good in their design. They are either case series (the weakest of all evidence in medical field because they are small in number of subjects) or on-going studies that are not double-blinded and randomized.
Show us evidence that the ongoing Chinese clinical trials "are not double-blinded and randomized."
Regardless, scientific evidence for the safety and efficacy of vitamin C for numerous conditions goes far beyond the recent case series and ongoing trials. According to Dr. Cheng, a distinguished scientist and consultant to Chinese expert panels...
Do you know Vit C (or ascorbic acid) is one of the most studied molecules in the world? There are over 65,000 scientific papers written in the world's biggest medical library, the National Library of Medicine, hosted at the NIH (better known as Pubmed.gov or Pubmed.com). So next time when someone tells you that there is not enough research on VC, tell them to do their homework better.
Covid-19, Vitamin C, Vaccine and Integrative Medicine (2) | Cheng Integrative Health Center Blog
Yes, I too can play the game of appealing to authority.
And before you tell me that I'm in bed with "the man" and paid off by big pharma, etc. I'll stop you right there.
This too is a mischaracterization of my position. You don't have to be "paid off" (currently or otherwise) by Big Pharma to have prejudices shaped by the Pharma-dominated system that trained you (including with classic thought-control techniques such as sleep deprivation during Internship).
I have found that conventionally trained doctors fall into two broad categories: those who trust their training and sneer at alternatives, and those who discovered to their shock that drug-based medicine failed them or loved ones, and were forced to consider alternatives. Apparently you escaped the latter trauma. Lucky you.
I left medicine after the *sugar*-show that it turned into due to Obamacare. I am still board certified, licensed, and keep up with the latest research, but I do NOT take a penny from anyone for anything medically-related. I run a business, un-related to the health sciences, and my home life is all the better for it.
I don't doubt it, since conventional doctors are condemned to watch their patients slowly worsen on drugs prescribed for the rest of their lives, instead of getting off the drugs and fixing disease causes instead of symptoms.
If you want to super-juice on Vitamin C, have at it. I won't recommend against it because (unlike hydroxychloroquine) there are no harsh side effects like hydroxychloroquine had. You might get some flushing, headaches, nausea, vomiting, diarrhea, etc. but your heart will keep ticking and you will keep breathing. Just don't pimp it out UNTIL the HARD DATA is in. And contrary to what you are saying the HARD DATA is definitely NOT in to support this as a COVID-19 cure-all, preventative, or treatment.
Again, the data is sufficient to support use (call it compassionate use) in people with no alternative while harder data is pending. If you or your loved ones get seriously sick, you will want every chance you can get.
Thank you for your long and detailed reply. I prefer it to endless Disagree ratings.
