Coronavirus

[AlanSubie4Life]

This thread has completely gone off the rails, to the point that some are wishing for others to get sick and possibly die in order to prove their point.

Please seek help!

Like I said, up until now I haven't really wished this on anyone. And I still mostly don't. I just wonder whether it is best for public health. It's a good question. It has nothing to do with proving a point. I hope that I'm wrong and the virus disappears without further effort on anyone's part.

 

[SMAlset]

After collapsing the market for salmon, the Chinese retracted these statements. But now they appear to be doubling down?

Coronavirus Fears in China Find a New Target: Salmon

It's much less likely to be transmitted by food. According to Michael Osterholm, anyway, he is primarily concerned about the air we breathe, as is the case for other respiratory viruses. He wants people to wash their hands, etc. (since other viruses do transmit that way), but generally he said he doesn't worry about boxes, food, etc. Likely no need to wipe everything down with Lysol. Though certainly fine to continue as long as you don't contaminate your food and you have the patience for it.

If you're wiping your food down, though, you DEFINITELY should be wearing an N95 mask AND a face shield or goggles when you go into an enclosed area with other people (likely a much higher risk reduction than food wiping, when you employ those steps). Gloves probably not a bad idea either if you can't help touching your face.

Interesting read and given the fish cutting boards were virus infected, I think understandable that people would stay away from the fish at this point, especially the raw version. At least with our pork and chicken processing plants here with hundreds of workers at each one testing positive, the product they've handled does get cooked and at higher temps. We have been told in the past that it was possible to touch an infected surface and if you touch your face area you could spread the infection to yourself. Fact is I don't think anyone really knows the source of the virus in these cases so I'm not as quick to conclude from where it is coming from or how it is spread. An important question we all have though. Air transmission, a given. But are the food items being the source transferring to the cutting board and then to the handlers who get sick or is it the food handlers who bring it and spread it through breathing, coughing, sneezing or transfer touching? It's good that China is taking immediate action on tamping the spread down once discovered, which is what health departments want to do here too but contact tracing as is being done is a slower process and not everyone contacted will participate.

I did find this quote from the article interesting:

" They have cast foreigners as public health risks, sowed doubt about the origins of the virus and even pushed an unfounded conspiracy theory that the United States military had deliberately brought the virus to China."

Hasn't the WH done of all the above and as far as the military conspiracy theory lobbed that salvo first from our side? I don't see governments or scientists having definitive answers and it leads to public confusion. I don't see any of this as a reason not to proactively wear a face mask in public however as we do know it does limit the spread.

 

[madodel]

This thread has completely gone off the rails, to the point that some are wishing for others to get sick and possibly die in order to prove their point.

Please seek help!

Not just this thread but the entire COVID-19 pandemic, at least in the US. I assume everywhere else it is treated as a public health emergency, but in the US it has become a political event and argument. This thread is just mimicking what is playing out all over this country. People that have to deal with this disease closer than others are getting tired of the insanity and stupidity playing out all across this country. That said this thread has mostly been on topic, even with the politics, except for the recent sugar arguments.

 

[AlanSubie4Life]

Back on topic, after I apparently wished death to those I disagree with....

Interesting study here (this has previously been observed, too) on asymptomatics.

Ignore the asymptomatic numbers (20% of those observed), as it might be skewed by sampling method, and there is some weirdness about the antibody levels (I wouldn't conclude rapidly waning immunity, necessarily).

The most interesting thing in the paper is that ~50% of the asymptomatic patients showed significant abnormalities in their lungs. As has been mentioned before, being asymptomatic is not necessarily a free pass.

Lower inflammatory cytokine levels in asymptomatic folks, though.

Clinical and immunological assessment of asymptomatic SARS-CoV-2 infections | Nature Medicine

Relevant to my prior posts, I would like to see a study of viral levels from those recently exposed. It must be lower...presumably 3 days after infection viral load might still be quite low and shedding of virus might not be going full swing. So there is hope for the defective White House screening policies, still!

As is mentioned in the paper, the decay in viral levels over 4 weeks doesn't necessarily imply infectious for that long - could be non-viable viral RNA particles.

 

[dfwatt]

This thread has completely gone off the rails, to the point that some are wishing for others to get sick and possibly die in order to prove their point.

Please seek help!

In all fairness I have to point out the person who said that offered it with regrets. And the issue isn't wishing that people die so that your point is proven. It's wishing that something including possibly even serious illness would knock people out of their denial and minimization. This is a serious illness with serious risks and it's not just a serious illness for people over 80. 60% of American adults have a so-called comorbidity that puts them at elevated risk for at least serious illness if not a fatal outcome. And the folks that have survived this have consistently described it as the worst experience or one of the worst experiences of their lives. And there's increasing anecdotal evidence all those studies are still lacking on this to suggest that a sizable fraction of people who recover have long-term health problems. The seriousness of this issue is still unclear but again it's concerning, The fact that a sizable number of people are asymptomatic does not mean that this is not a serious illness This virus is not something to trivialize, minimize, deny, obfuscate or otherwise tap-dance around.

It's the intense frustration with the refractory nature of those attitudes that has provoked the comment that you find regrettable. And like it or not, those attitudes are being disseminated from the top of our country's political structure.

 

[AlanSubie4Life]

In other news, Sweden 7-day death total fell below 200 today. They paid a higher initial price, but have bent the curve downward without lockdowns or other severe restrictions.

This may have been a premature call. Clearly the reason for the case increase is mostly due to an increase in testing. But they seem to have experienced a bad day. Over 100 deaths yesterday. I would assume this is due to a reporting update or something and not actually a sudden burst of deaths. But still... In general I would expect their deaths to trend upwards a bit, unless they decide to change their strategy (increased testing may be a sign of that; I'm not sure).

 

[shinytop]

There is some irony in that not wearing a mask is a statement now by those who believe most in Trump. The irony is that very act puts them more as risk for the disease thus lowering the number of his voters.

 

[AlanSubie4Life]

It's wishing that something including possibly even serious illness would knock people out of their denial and minimization.

Yeah, death wasn't on my list of desired outcomes. It's unclear to me whether a bout of serious illness for Trump would help the nation or not (I think it's fairly unlikely he would die, due to his generally good health (in spite of his weight and other bloodwork issues, he is generally healthy), and since he has access to early medical care and whatever the optimal treatment regimen is these days (remdesivir, convalescent plasma, early intervention and monitoring, etc.)).

He might just become insufferable, or he might take it more seriously. Didn't really help Boris Johnson though. People cling to their priors.

 

[SMAlset]

There is some irony in that not wearing a mask is a statement now by those who believe most in Trump. The irony is that very act puts them more as risk for the disease thus lowering the number of his voters.

It would be interesting to follow the attendees to these upcoming events and have status reports on each person. Not that that's ever going to happen. If they won't wear masks then they won't participate in any survey or tracking program either unless they end up in the hospital and become a hard statistic. Does seem to me like he's out to infect his base and doesn't care. I have this image of lemmings at the cliff. Just don't get it. Just like don't understand the religious leaders out there that encourage similar behavior among their congregants. Just don't see this as looking out for them. We've also seen among the more red states not wearing mask what populations there are at most risk and suffering the worst.

 

[AlanSubie4Life]

We've also seen among the more red states not wearing mask what populations there are at most risk and suffering the worst.

Both Ducey and Abbott have recently backtracked on their mask policies. So that's progress. I just don't know why this has to be like squeezing out a particularly hard stool.

 

[AlanSubie4Life]

Seen on my drive back from the grocery store today!

It takes all kinds. There's the no masks symbol.

And:

Pandemicus
Maskicus
Stupidicus

And the other thing says (I think) :

No Draconian Sacrificial
Demonic satanic Masks
OR Draconan Demonic
Satanic Social Distancing
allowed on this property

What a treat (you can Google Pandemicus Maskicus Stupidicus)!

The Pet Whisperer

In the car was an older couple, likely in their mid-70's, roughly.

 

[SVMike]

I believe they are specced to filter 95% of particles 0.3um in size because this the most difficult size to filter. They have much higher than 95% efficiency for both smaller and larger particles.
View attachment 552231
N95 Respirators and Surgical Masks | | Blogs | CDC

I think this is mostly early anti-mask propaganda. There are plenty of YouTube videos for health professionals showing how to fit an N95. The only adjustments are the size, position, position of straps and the nose wire!

The official 3M datasheet explains how you fit the mask yourself.

https://multimedia.3m.com/mws/media...espirator-1860-1860s-technical-data-sheet.pdf

 

[bkp_duke]

Seen on my drive back from the grocery store today!

It takes all kinds. There's the no masks symbol.

And:

Pandemicus
Maskicus
Stupidicus

And the other thing says (I think) :

No Draconian Sacrificial
Demonic satanic Masks
OR Draconan Demonic Satanic
Social Distancing
allowed on this property

View attachment 553370

What a treat (you can Google Pandemicus Maskicus Stupidicus)!

The Pet Whisperer

In the car were an older couple, likely in their mid-70's, roughly.

Incredible. High risk individuals with high(ish) risk behavior. I hope their wills are in order.

 

[dhanson865]

If you want to be a member of this Glass Action Lawsuit call our office today.

 

[AlanSubie4Life]

Incredible. High risk individuals with high(ish) risk behavior. I hope their wills are in order.

Looks like a PCT sticker on his Hybrid Toyota. Probably fairly granola. COVIDiots come in all political persuasions I guess.

Those of you interested in minimizing exposure, you may want to avoid going out on June 20th...there is website trying to coordinate that day for people to go to stores in every town in the US, on June 20th (Saturday), without wearing a mask. No idea how much traction this will get... I hesitate to even mention it, but I'm sure those who want to be irresponsible already know about it. I am not going to post the link.

It seems to me it is possibly an effort pushed by a foreign power (no idea the likelihood, but obviously wouldn't be the first time some Americans' lack of critical thinking was leveraged). Probably that could explain how there has been good uptake of these ideas in all places on the political spectrum.

This virus is very, very likely picked up primarily by the air you breathe.

 

[SMAlset]

Saw that Gov. Newsom (CA) has issued a mandate today that masks are to be worn in most public places outside and indoors (some exceptions). This is to override any Counties that have a less restrictive one on masks in place now.

California Gov. Gavin Newsom orders residents to wear face coverings in most public spaces

 

[dfwatt]

Seen on my drive back from the grocery store today!

It takes all kinds. There's the no masks symbol.

And:

Pandemicus
Maskicus
Stupidicus

And the other thing says (I think) :

No Draconian Sacrificial
Demonic satanic Masks
OR Draconan Demonic
Satanic Social Distancing
allowed on this property

View attachment 553370

What a treat (you can Google Pandemicus Maskicus Stupidicus)!

The Pet Whisperer

In the car was an older couple, likely in their mid-70's, roughly.

It's like you stepped into Bizarro World!

 

[AlanSubie4Life]

Saw that Gov. Newsom (CA) has issued a mandate today that masks are to be worn in most public places outside and indoors (some exceptions). This is to override any Counties that have a less restrictive one on masks in place now.

California Gov. Gavin Newsom orders residents to wear face coverings in most public spaces

Yeah, thankfully, finally. Hopefully this will slow things down in California. While % positive has not been increasing, case numbers have been going up, not down! Not good. They need to do more testing! And stop infections from occurring.

Nothing changes in San Diego. I don't usually wear a mask when I'm outside (walking the dogs or whatever), as there is no need for it. (You're required to carry one with you if there is a chance of encountering someone.) When bicylcling, even though apparently not required, I carry one, since it presumably makes others feel better if I have to pass near them.

Used my face shield along with the mask in the grocery store for the first time. Solves the problem with fogging, but I'm not convinced it is better than goggles alone. I can feel the air on my eyes, which seems like not what one would want. Need to invest in that 3M full respirator @Daniel in SD has and rubber band some filter material to the "exhaust." Probably the best option.


We've hit our trigger of more than 7 outbreaks in San Diego County in 7 days now, so technically modification of health orders can occur now. We've had outbreaks in these locations:

3 businesses
2 Restaurants
Private Residence
Campground (interesting!)
Social Club

10070 tests reported today (by far the highest we have ever had), with 238 positives (but some of them were backlogged tests). Still, one of the highest case counts we've seen in a month.

 

[SVMike]

In all fairness I have to point out the person who said that offered it with regrets.

Oh, so its now OK to say I regret to inform you that I wish you were dead?
Sorry, there should be no excuse for anyone saying things like this.
Everyone should strive for a high level of decorum or this thread and all of social media just spirals to the least common denominator.

 

[dfwatt]

Oh, so its now OK to say I regret to inform you that I wish you were dead?
Sorry, there should be no excuse for anyone saying things like this.
Everyone should strive for a high level of decorum or this thread and all of social media just spirals to the least common denominator.

I think you're missing the forest for the trees. If you're going to quote my post please quote the whole post