Welcome to Tesla Motors Club
Discuss Tesla's Model S, Model 3, Model X, Model Y, Cybertruck, Roadster and More.
Register

Coronavirus

This site may earn commission on affiliate links.
That graph seems to contradict this site, which says over 5k positive cases in Italy today.

Coronavirus Update (Live): 242,017 Cases and 9,991 Deaths from COVID-19 Virus Outbreak - Worldometer
The website i quoted, The Civil Guard, is the most careful in checking the cases, so it could happen is a little bit in delay. The updates are always 5PM Italy time.

Today news for Lombardia, is getting worse, again, for new cases. Considering to involve the Army:
Coronavirus, le ultime notizie in Italia
 
Vigilant testing is only effective in the initial stages when you can have contact tracers sent out by our pandemic response team isolate people. Wonder why that never happened.....

Anyway. Even China was only able to contain it once they lost track of the spread by similar draconian lockdown methods.

I am not optimistic about lock down working. I also think that Elon is assuming the rest of the world will obey the lock down order like in Asia.
The Chinese doctor's report on Italy's lockdown condition pretty much tells of a leaky lockdown. Not wearing masks is understandable. Public transport running is understandable and possible with proper disinfection. The two combined is not.

The worst is having gatherings and get togethers.

Is there a reason why EU can't fine these people or force them to disperse?

How about a registry where if you are found willfully in a large gathering or ignoring quarantine orders, you get put on a registry of people who give up priority access to an ICU bed if you do get sick?
 
News from the guy to 30+million ppl.
Positives in US are dying out since the 8th of march.
End of April US will be out of the story.

Perhaps something doesn't work in this guy's head.

Elon Musk on Twitter

Elon Musk on Twitter

Overall the US is testing more, but the testing is uneven across the country. The Northeast, especially NY, is testing heavily now, but a week ago the biggest tester in the country was Washington state followed by California. New York was getting on the ball with a huge percentage testing positive and there was some testing in Florida. The rest of the country had very little testing.

NY has jumped into the lead in testing, but they also have the most positives. Washington and California are still way up there in testing numbers. Most of the states that were testing heavily a week ago were also putting into place the most restrictions on movement which slowed the spread of the virus.

But slowing the spread does not mean that everyone is out of the woods. With no herd immunity the virus will come back as soon as people are allowed to congregate again.

Michael Osterholm was recently on the Joe Rogan Experience. He's an expert in infectious diseases and how the spread. He expects China to have an increase in cases again now that they have let people move about again. The Chinese may cover it up, but it will probably happen.

With a percentage of people infected being contagious, but completely symptom free, it's impossible to stop the spread without testing everyone everyday and forcing anyone testing positive into quarantine. That's an effort that even the best medical systems aren't going to be able to pull off. Spot testing people for fevers is about the best societies can do, but people who have it without a fever will slip through the cracks.

The social isolation is not intended to stamp out the disease, it is intended to slow down the spread to give hospitals a chance to keep up with the case load.

The last couple of days I've been thinking more about how this is a lot like a forest fire. With an isolated fire, like one house, or a car fire, fire fighters can drown the thing on fire with water or other fire fighting chemicals and completely put the thing out in a short time. With a forest fire it's too small to put out at once and fire fighters have to set backfires (a destructive measure) to starve out the fire and slow it down. They also have planes dumping retardant and water on the fire to slow it down. Ultimately you get the fire contained until it burns out all the fuel and starves to death.

With an epidemic like this, when most of the population has immunity one way or another, it can no longer spread. But because about 20% of cases will require hospitalization, you need to slow the spread so there will be enough hospital resources to go around. When hospital resources get overwhelmed is when the death rate shoots up because a lot of people who could have been saved with hospitalization don't get the care they need and die.

The backfire is doing a lot of damage to the economy, but it's an attempt to keep the death toll down.

About 80% of the population are at low risk for anything more than feeling about as bad as they might with the common flu or less. That's good news for the 80%, but if they spread the virus to the 20% vulnerable, they could kill the vulnerable people in their families and neighborhoods.

In about 2 weeks we'll find out how bad the spread from spring break is going to be. All those college kids congregating together, spreading it between them (even though many may never know they had it), then going back home because a lot of colleges are closed. Their parents, grandparents, and the neighbors back home are going to be exposed. This is like embers from a forest fire drifting on the wind for many miles while still hot and starting new fires. The embers themselves are harmless if they land on something that isn't flammable, but is dangerous if it lands in dry grass or among the needles of a very dry fir tree.
 
I am not optimistic about lock down working. I also think that Elon is assuming the rest of the world will obey the lock down order like in Asia.
The Chinese doctor's report on Italy's lockdown condition pretty much tells of a leaky lockdown. Not wearing masks is understandable. Public transport running is understandable and possible with proper disinfection. The two combined is not.

The worst is having gatherings and get togethers.

Is there a reason why EU can't fine these people or force them to disperse?

How about a registry where if you are found willfully in a large gathering or ignoring quarantine orders, you get put on a registry of people who give up priority access to an ICU bed if you do get sick?

Limitations are increasing in Italy, but, you know what? I don't think that small gatherings are the issue.
The issue is that we closed schools in North of Italy 4 weeks ago, we shut everything else down 10 days ago and still active cases and deaths are increasing. We've not peaked yet.

This is depressing, because uncertainty is max now.
BTW, this is also why I'm flabbergasted by Musk's behavior on Twitter.
He looks at the data, but even journalists are understanding that, at least from Italy, data don't mean anything right now.
Very probably, Italy is undertested and real COVID numbers are underestimated.
Globally, I would'nt really trust Chinese numbers (from the start), or Russia numbers, or Africa numbers.
Even European numbers do have issues.
So I think it's dangerous for a guy with 32M followers to publicly downplay how dangerous this is.
 
Some medication related thoughts.

'Notably, the most frequent comorbidities reported in these three studies of patients with COVID-19 are often treated with angiotensinconverting enzyme (ACE) inhibitors'
https://www.thelancet.com/pdfs/journals/lanres/PIIS2213-2600(20)30116-8.pdf

Could Italy have predisposed itself to high CoVid19 fatality rate due to choice of hypertension medication?

Could parts of india have predisposed itself to improved covid19 survival rate due to antimalarials?

I would also add that high ldl in the presence of high hdl is correlated with improved survival against infectious diseases requiring hospitalizations https://www.ahajournals.org/doi/10.1161/ATVBAHA.119.313381 could low HDL dietary patterns are also a cause for increased severity of covid19 infections?
 
California Governor Gavin Newsom has upgraded the entire West Coast population to stay at home.
The curfew for nearly 40 million people came into effect on Friday night, Newsom says.
link
twitter

Is this true or is it fake news?

Update: Seems to be true, link

Just to clarify, Gavin Newsom is governor of the largest west coast state and the most populous US state, but there are two other US states on the continental US Pacific coast, as well as a Canadian province and Alaska. Newsom didn't close down anything outside of California, but the other Pacific coast states are all doing similar actions.

Much of Washington and Oregon are locked down almost as much as California right now. My more extroverted neighbors are climbing the walls.

Newsom much have seen some growth numbers the public hasn't seen to react like he did. California has been relatively lightly hit per capita thus far.

As an italian, i cannot agree more on every line of @aubreymcfato.

I want to add to that story that Italy have lots of old people hence high number of deaths. It does'nt seems so:

Median age in Italy 45.5, Germany is worse, EU average 42.9,

US 38.1, China 37.4

List of countries by median age - Wikipedia

I believe in Italy it's more common for the elderly to live with younger family members while in Germany it is much less common. At least that was one speculation I read.

Somebody mentioned something with the Ace2 gene expression and my SO got interested when I read her the post and did a deep dive into the medical literature. In her reading she was reading about the Ace2 link with east Asian men and came across some information that the part of Northern Italy that has the worst outbreak there are a number of Asian immigrants who moved there to operate Asian owned companies with presences in the region (such as manufacturing).

I haven't seen any data on the hospitalized and deaths in the affected part of Italy. I don't know if those immigrants have been hit harder than the native Italian population the same age or not.
 
Some medication related thoughts.

'Notably, the most frequent comorbidities reported in these three studies of patients with COVID-19 are often treated with angiotensinconverting enzyme (ACE) inhibitors'
https://www.thelancet.com/pdfs/journals/lanres/PIIS2213-2600(20)30116-8.pdf

Could Italy have predisposed itself to high CoVid19 fatality rate due to choice of hypertension medications?

Keep in mind
Position Statement of the ESC Council on Hypertension on ACE-Inhibitors and Angi
'The Council on Hypertension strongly recommend that physicians and patients should continue treatment with their usual anti-hypertensive therapy because there is no clinical or scientific evidence to suggest that treatment with ACEi or ARBs should be discontinued because of the Covid-19 infection"

 
  • Helpful
Reactions: Dr. J
I wouldn’t count on the Tesla factory to be closed for only 2 weeks. Our local virologists are now saying that we shouldn’t count on going on holiday this summer, or even having a barbecue with friends this summer. Imagine what impact this would have on the economic activity, and for Tesla, on the demand for Tesla cars.
We will hopefully (I say hopefully, because there are no signs that Italy (being the first western country impacted) is anywhere near an improvement in situation) get to a situation with a low number of new cases, but that is not enough to stop the economic disaster. We need a way to go on with our lives without too much fear for Corona. I think that’s only possible with a technology that allows very fast testing to quarantine any new cases, like e.g. a breathalizer test.

How quickly we went from "flatten the curve" to "there must be no curve at all."

Our models have our local hospitals being overwhelmed in just a few days. If the number of dead doesn't skyrocket, I expect a backlash from the public. A huge number of people are out of work and this is just the beginning. The only people who will be able to afford Teslas in the near future are those working in healthcare, if this keeps up. I can't imagine life stays like this for as long as we're being told it must.
 
How quickly we went from "flatten the curve" to "there must be no curve at all."

Our models have our local hospitals being overwhelmed in just a few days. If the number of dead doesn't skyrocket, I expect a backlash from the public. A huge number of people are out of work and this is just the beginning. The only people who will be able to afford Teslas in the near future are those working in healthcare, if this keeps up. I can't imagine life stays like this for as long as we're being told it must.
Just watch the video in this article (the video is in English, from Sky News): Privacy settings Just watch it.
 
Just watch the video in this article (the video is in English, from Sky News): Privacy settings Just watch it.

Few if any are advocating for "no flattening of the curve whatsoever". But there exists a real danger of, if you go to far and there's no visible stressing of the hospitals, people interpreting the resultant mass unemployment and disruption in their lives as an intrusive government abuse of power, and responding accordingly.
 
Just watch the video in this article (the video is in English, from Sky News): Privacy settings Just watch it.

I prefer to read. Do you have a link to an article, instead?

I work in healthcare. I get daily updates that I can't comment on, specifically, but they're basically forecasting the end of the world if we don't stay locked inside for a very long time. The people making decisions right now seem to have no idea how important the economy is to your health and the future of the world. I am well aware of the threat of COVID-19. It's real. But we're not making reasonable choices in the face of uncertainty and danger. People scare me more than this virus does.

Edit: Sorry, just noticed you said the video is part of an article.