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"A UPMC doctor on Thursday made a case the death rate for people infected with the new coronavirus may be as low as 0.25%"

“Many people just didn’t feel sick at all and recovered without difficulty.”

UPMC doctor argues COVID-19 not as deadly as feared, says its hospitals will shift back to normal

Fancy that. Something tells me CNN won't be pushing out the good news.

What say our esteemed genius, bkp "napoleon" duke?

I say you are still a dumbass. Where is your argument gone that this is not any worse than the flu? We've surpassed a year's worth of flu deaths in 2 months from COVID-19.

But I am sure you have some pithy comeback to avoid reality some more.
 
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Agrees with this model! Go machine learning! It's almost as good as having a human brain (this sort of projection is also quite apparent, with a cursory look at the available data, and doing mental pattern extraction)!

COVID-19 Projections | United States


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Different accumulation intervals. Will likely mean a larger number from COVID Tracking tomorrow due to a "hot" afternoon (generally more deaths in the west). All depends on tomorrow morning!

Wow! :

COVID-19 Projections Using Machine Learning
May 1 update: The IHME model has since been removed from the CDC website.

I guess my previous guess of 120K is now on the optimistic side...

EDIT: To my defense, I made that guess before so many states decided on a premature reopening... I hesitate to make a new one.
 
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NYS has ~ 1000 new Covid hospitalizations a day. That works out to ~ 200 deaths a day, and using a 1% IFR it implies ~ 20,000 new infections a day. If contract tracing leads to e.g. 50 contacts per infection then the plan is to apply 14 day quarantines on 1M people a day.
SAH has failed in NYS, and barring other successful measures this test,trace and quarantine strategy just amounts to another somewhat worse SAH outcome.

It is possible that the 14 days is modified/reduceable by the improved testing involving prioritization for those exposed. If contacts were priority retested at 5? days (if the science supports a particular day) then that be helpful. This presumes 24 hr test results, very accurate testing and a functional method of prioritizing testing (yes some heavy lifting).

I think this is somewhat pessimistic. It probably is 10-20k new infections per day (20% of people are hopefully immune now, so that may cut down the undercount). I think contact tracing is not going to identify that many close contacts in the current regime, or even the first phase of reopening.

That being said, I think it IS important for NYC to wait a bit longer before relaxing restrictions. The curve is rapidly decaying (much more rapidly than it will decay elsewhere, probably due to the partial herd immunity), so even waiting another week or two should dramatically reduce the heat of the infection.

They just need to stand up their contact tracing teams and phase them in, starting immediately. And then in a couple or three weeks they can consider phasing open some new businesses.

We'll see how it goes.


Would opening factories and other similiar low-interaction businesses that can control the spacing between employees, really significantly add to the spread?

t's about the sensibility of keeping low-risk businesses closed, while permitting high-risk ones to remain open,

The thing is, the factory is NOT a low-risk business. There are 10k people there. If there's an outbreak, that's basically 10k people immediately who will need to be quarantined. We've seen what happens in the meat packing factories. We can't just assume that's happening only because of the meat saws and meat grinding and aerosolization, and poor practices.

So yeah, I think it would have significant impact. And again, there are likely 10-20 employees in that factory who are in mortal danger (and we can't identify them all). It's a bad look (and bad practice!) to have employees die on the job!

They need to have testing in place at the factory doors, and go above and beyond in various other ways, to establish an environment that really should be "safe".

There are a lot of companies pondering this problem right now. It's not an easy one to solve. But I think it can be solved, and it will be solved.

The other thing that helps is an additional two weeks of cool-down of community transmission. Once the public health department has identified the patterns of transmission (which will be easier the larger their workforce and the lower the caseload), there will be more visibility and ability to track down people before they start new fires.

But that cool-down alone isn't going to be enough to ensure no outbreaks at the factory. That requires a system that is correct & robust by design. Not just some temperature monitoring and gloves and masks for everyone.
 
In other instances, high-level diplomacy was needed behind the scenes on deals that, on the surface, looked like commercial agreements. In April, Australia reached a deal with Taiwan to send 1 million litres of alcohol to make sanitiser and vaccines in exchange for three tonnes of material to make face masks

Rum, our old currency.

https://www.smh.com.au/politics/fed...lia-s-national-stockpile-20200422-p54mbi.html

On a more serious note, at that rate its of 1,000 litres of medical grade alcohol per 3 kg of PPE fabric.
 
We all know Elon Musk is both brilliant and crazy. This guy head butted a car on the production line the last time he had a meltdown (2018). I'm not surprised that a month of isolation is bringing out the crazy.
Musk thought they can reopen the factory on May 4th. That's what they told employees in the mail too.

Looks like CA will extend the stay-at-home order with some modifications. Probably manufacturing is not included - and Musk knows about it. That's why he has now become a raving maniac. Not sure whether its the frustration or some calculated "putting pressure".

WA is saying "All remaining manufacturing businesses" will be allowed from phase 2 (end of May). Not sure what that means - but if that means things like Fremont - and CA does the same - Fremont won't open for another month. We can all see why Musk is melting down.
 
Musk thought they can reopen the factory on May 4th.

Fremont won't open for another month. We can all see why Musk is melting down.

I don't understand. It was pretty obvious at least a month ago that that would be the timing! It seems really strange that this is all somehow a surprise to him!

For example, right on this forum, April 7th! It would have been clear a bit earlier than that...(this was a prediction for closer to June 4th - which I think will prove pessimistic):

Tesla announces pay reductions and furloughs. Says they expect to restart the factory May 4 unforessen events withstanding. Have to say if California isn’t seeing a peak until May-Mid May according to Governor, I think the SFBay health departments and Mayors will be extending this another month.

Tesla will slash employee pay and furlough employees
 
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If contract tracing leads to e.g. 50 contacts per infection then the plan is to apply 14 day quarantines on 1M people a day.
50 avg is very high. From various case studies I've seen from Korea etc., usually the # of contacts is very low (5 to 10).

ps : Household members anyway would be put in quarantine. So really talking about outside household - though Korea studies include households.
 
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This isn't about economics over lives. It's about the sensibility of keeping low-risk businesses closed, while permitting high-risk ones to remain open, because of the label "critical business". If you can control the transmission vectors, then you can prevent the spread and wouldn't be adding load to the hospitals (which are currently loaded by the businesses that are _required_ to be open)!

With 80-90 death/day, very high for CA, California has barely reached a positive trend. That's not enough to say we are in control. It is much easier to "control" at a lower level, and less risky if it goes wrong. At this point, if it goes wrong, we are in big trouble.
 
I think Elon Musk is a communal narcissist. The Communal Narcissist: A New Kind of Narcissist? The description of a communal narcissist, the sort of upbringing that causes the trait, the sorts of problems in personal relationships that such a person has, the sorts of causes they pursue, and the ways they lash out all fit Elon Musk to a dot and t.

Elon is genuinely doing good for the world, but it comes with a lot of drama and attention seeking. Elon wants it to be about him. But the coronavirus has taken all the attention away from him, and away from the big problems that he is solving, like sustainable energy. To the mind of a communal narcissist, their favorite communal problem has to be seen by the community as the big communal problem, so that the narcissistic individual can feel important. The coronavirus lockdown has taken all the attention away from Elon's favorite communal problem. In fact, the coronavirus is a problem in a domain where Elon can't do anything to help. This crushes Elon's ego, so to regain his self-worth he needs to minimize the magnitude of that other problem. The personality traits of a communal narcissist are why Elon is saying what he is saying.

We've seen Elon's communal narcissism before, with the Thai cave rescue. The Thai cave rescue sucked up a lot of headlines, and Elon jumped in to help (making sure everyone knew about it) even though it's not really in his domain of expertise. And when the boys were rescued without Elon's help, Elon became overly sensitive to anyone who pointed out his efforts were not useful.

This paper on communal narcissism (Communal Narcissists “Go Green” to Enhance their Social Status: An Abstract) reads like it was written about Elon Musk.
 
Inslee was saying during the press conference that they want to get as aggressive with testing & tracing as Taiwan & Korea. Atleast he is making the right noises - we'll see how they actually do it.

What Inslee’s 4-phase plan to reopen Washington’s economy means for your life

I highly doubt Inslee even knows the lengths Korea has gone to implement contact tracing. I would bet a solid that almost the entire US will not approve of measures that even resembles that of Korea’s tracing program. Even in a very highly liberal state like, I bet something like Korea’s program will be a hard pass.

Also, we have to start with getting everyone willing to wear a mask first. I was at FedEx Kinko yesterday to ship out a package and some middle-aged customer was told to leave because he wouldn’t cooperate with the county & state mask policy, saying it violated his freedom of right.

Furreal??! To some people, the Constitution is incorrectly the go-to argument regarding any matter that goes against their opinion.

I don’t want to sound like a Debbie downer but this country values personal freedom way too much to have an effective contact tracing program nationwide. Plus, contact tracing should be mostly automated instead of this manual brute force method being implemented in some places now.
 
What if Elon Musk truly believes in his heart that every Tesla that rolls out of the factory saves a life further down the road? Both literally and figuratively. I personally don't buy into that earth view, but many do, particularly Tesla owners. Can you blame them?

Elon has went nuts several times and everybody thinks it's the end of the world each time. One thing that's a safe bet, he'll go nuts again. ;)
 
Agrees with this model! Go machine learning! It's almost as good as having a human brain (this sort of projection is also quite apparent, with a cursory look at the available data, and doing mental pattern extraction)!

COVID-19 Projections | United States


View attachment 537909



Different accumulation intervals. Will likely mean a larger number from COVID Tracking tomorrow due to a "hot" afternoon (generally more deaths in the west). All depends on tomorrow morning!

Looks way more plausible. Thanks for the link.
 
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Musk thought they can reopen the factory on May 4th. That's what they told employees in the mail too.

Looks like CA will extend the stay-at-home order with some modifications. Probably manufacturing is not included - and Musk knows about it. That's why he has now become a raving maniac. Not sure whether its the frustration or some calculated "putting pressure".

WA is saying "All remaining manufacturing businesses" will be allowed from phase 2 (end of May). Not sure what that means - but if that means things like Fremont - and CA does the same - Fremont won't open for another month. We can all see why Musk is melting down.

Musk was seeking out fringe sources on Twitter 8 days ago. It's when he latched on to the overcount deaths conspiracy. It's around the time when he was asking random conspiracy accounts to explain the big FT excess deaths piece. Shortly after that he started parroting the McAfee conspiracy theory language. I don't think that is some plan, it's just falling deeper and deeper down a conspiracy rabbit hole. His tweets and tweet likes kind of show a rapid descent in to full looney tunes.
 
Ah, don't be too negative - read to the end of his thread! He fully admits that it's quite possible that cases ARE reducing, but the decrease has been hidden by increasing testing. There's evidence of this! We had about 35k positives back on April 10th, with 160k tests. 36k positives on April 25th with 270k tests. And 35k positives today, with 320k tests!

This is good news. The fatality count will still be tragically high (I think it will definitely exceed 150k and may get to the 250k number eventually depending on how things go - but I also think IFR is closer to 1% than 0.5%).

But the trajectory of cases may well be on a downward trend.
GA today is a perfect example. Daily positives jumped from 583 to 1115 ... but daily tests jumped from 5105 to 19,323. Four times the test results but only two times the positives. You have to look at the overall curve to get a feel for what's going on out there.
 
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Musk was seeking out fringe sources on Twitter 8 days ago. It's when he latched on to the overcount deaths conspiracy. It's around the time when he was asking random conspiracy accounts to explain the big FT excess deaths piece. Shortly after that he started parroting the McAfee conspiracy theory language. I don't think that is some plan, it's just falling deeper and deeper down a conspiracy rabbit hole. His tweets and tweet likes kind of show a rapid descent in to full looney tunes.
I can see why you think so, but context matters here:

He opened GF-Shanghai successfuly;
The Bay area of CA has been relatively quite successful in tamping down Covid, the general populace is less stupid than the USA overall, and his workforce is exceptional. I think he wants an exception, and if I was the deciding politico in the area I would give it to him.

The loonies are dead wrong because they apply their idiotic numbers and demands to anywhere USA. I don't think they would be wrong for the Bay area, and certainly not wrong for Tesla.
 
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I can see why you think so, but context matters here:

He opened GF-Shanghai successfuly;
The Bay area of CA has been relatively quite successful in tamping down Covid, the general populace is less stupid than the USA overall, and his workforce is exceptional. I think he wants an exception, and if I was the deciding politico in the area I would give it to him.

The loonies are dead wrong because they apply their idiotic numbers and demands to anywhere USA. I don't think they would be wrong for the Bay area, and certainly not wrong for Tesla.

I agree with everything you said, but Elon did latch on to a debunked conspiracy theory as he seemed out information sources that backed up his C19 priors no matter how fringe like McAfee.
 
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I agree with everything you said, but Elon did latch on to a debunked conspiracy theory as he seemed out information sources that backed up his C19 priors no matter how fringe like McAfee.
If you are suggesting that it was a bad mistake for Elon to legitimize the loonies and to rely on them as surrogates for his message, I could not agree more.
 
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His tweets and tweet likes kind of show a rapid descent in to full looney tunes.

I think I'm starting to understand your issue. You are looking as any tweet Elon has liked or retweeted as something he wrote and 100% agrees with. As someone who follows Elon closely I don't stalk him to the point of monitoring his likes, so I have no idea what he has liked. As far as retweets, just because you retweet something doesn't mean you 100% agree with it. Sometimes you don't even agree with it a little bit, it is more of a can you believe this?

As far as mis-reported deaths, I can verify that it 100% is happening. The hospital that I have inside information from will flag any death for someone that as much as coughs once, or reports having a cough, as being COVID-19 related, even if they tested negative. (Even a gun shot victim.) So yes, the death numbers are not accurate. I don't know if overall they are high or low, but they are wrong. I have no idea if they will end up going back and testing/re-testing/correcting those reports or not... Anything even tangentially COVID-19 related gets flagged to include in submitting for more government money/reimbursement. And I understand why, they are hemorrhaging money and trying to stay afloat. Most of their employees are in a contract, so they can't reduce pay and they don't want to do a big layoff.