Lupus has so many negative cofoundering effects, the question is does the lupus medication reduce severity of the covid19 disease, rather than the incidence of the disease.
Like any comorbidity, accounting gets real messy.
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Coronavirus
- Thread starter Wenche
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Lupus has so many negative cofoundering effects, the question is does the lupus medication reduce severity of the covid19 disease, rather than the incidence of the disease.
Like any comorbidity, accounting gets real messy.
Lupus is an inflammation disease, it may be triggered by a pathogen, but is not caused by a pathogen. Inflammation is a key component of COVID19 fatality, if there is any crossover in mechanism between a lupus mediction for COVID19, then there is a decent chance it has nothing or little to do with virus itself, but rather with the human's response to the virus.
HCD is the primary medication for Lupus, but how it works regarding Lupus is still poorly understood, despite decades of research. If it is useful for Covid19 it could take a long time to find out why? Is it reasonable to prescibe a drug (poison) if you dont know why it works?
Here's one that's interesting. Zinc seems to make the difference. Drug Combo with Hydroxychloroquine Promising: NYU Study
AlanSubie4Life
Efficiency Obsessed Member
For this observational study, it apparently affected the quality of recovery for patients who weren't critical (it decreased the need for critical care):
"Dr. Rahimian says patients in the more critical stages of infection did not fare as well." (Compared to what?)
It's a little bit of a strange summary...because it also says elsewhere in this story they are 44% less likely to die.
So, even if you took the observational results at face value, it's hard to say what to conclude. Perhaps the phrasing would make more sense if the numbers were provided.
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Yes. Key is to give the combo of drugs "before" patients go to the ICU. Those that received this combination compared to those that didn't. The results were favorable. These drugs do little good to those who are already critical. This was effective at prevention, fewer people needing "ICU" admittance. Therefore fewer deaths.
MXLRplus
Active Member
I'm doing something similar. I stir my gin and tonic (quinine) with a galvanized nail. It might not cure anything, but it does make the day a little brighter.
I'll see your one anecdotal and raise you a few hundred Chinese anecdotals. Maybe that someone you know wasn't so good on consistency with the HCQ or perhaps the effectiveness as a prophylactic is something less than 100%. Bottom line: this is why we need a controlled study.
Half the world has been using chloroquine or HCQ as a treatment and one study was called off due to excess mortality that could or could not have been the direct result of the HCQ. We don't really know the politics of the person in charge of that particular study and the politics are a sticky point, unfortunately, with HCQ as a treatment. Again, this is why we need controlled studies that are completed.
Doggydogworld
Active Member
Reposting this chat, start at around 20minute markt for the conjecture of a model re civid19. Note well the author of the theory is an Iranian American gastro doctor, so its outside of his field of expertise, but within his circle of interest.
It is an EmCrit podcast, The presenter is well acquainted with emergency critical care for covid19.
It is an EmCrit podcast, The presenter is well acquainted with emergency critical care for covid19.
Norbert
TSLA will win
I doubt we would have so many dedicated to defending HCQ if it wasn't for Trump's PR-campaign-like promotion of it, which was basically just part of his attempt to convince himself and others that CV will "go away" soon. As if anyone would really believe his pronouncements are coming from a higher authority, somehow still many want to believe it, with almost the same effect.
Try turning this statement around to understand some of us HCQ defenders. There's such a rabid dislike of the orange-haired POTUS who promoted HCQ that the drug was crucified before it had a fair trial. I could care less who supports it. If it works, I want it to have a fair chance of proving itself. If serious studies show it doesn't work, it's time to move on. Let's give this treatment a fair shake, though.
Norbert
TSLA will win
Unfortunately this may just mean that, if so, there are a lot of comorbidities in the 45-64 year old group. The NYC numbers show that the risk for the 45-64 group is almost the same as the average risk (91% of it).
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Norbert
TSLA will win
It may not be always the case, but especially on this thread, since the beginning I had the impression the opposition was about the Trump-caused premature sales pitch, not about the drug itself. Although there may have been some collateral damage...
By the way, doesn't "orange" refer to the supposedly artificial skin tone?
Norbert
TSLA will win
2/2: I think the point is this: Trump should not publicly promote HCQ, considering that is not the medical advice for common people outside trials. What he should do, however, is promote the use of masks, and show himself wearing one. And be more decisive about actively supporting test & trace even beyond the maximum possible.
scottf200
Well-Known Member
May 18, 2020 article.
Utah went all-in on an unproven Covid-19 treatment, then scrambled to course-correct
By ANDREW JOSEPH @DrewQJoseph MAY 18, 2020
Utah embraced an unproven Covid-19 drug, then raced to course-correct
Indeed and this is the topic of a large study initiated in Germany. If you look at the incidence maps there you can see immediately that former East Germany is much less affected than the West. The suspicion is that areas where TBC inoculation was compulsory produce this effect. That particular inoculation has a broad effect on the immune system. I have so far not found a quotable paper on the particular topic, but the press notice was attributed to a CRC Hannover scientist where this is being investigated. In this context note also the difference between Portugal and Spain.
Tiger
Active Member
There is the Hygiene hypothesis, which might explain why kids (filthy!) are less susceptible to this virus. COVID seems to be playing a trick on the immune system, a bit like what happens with allergies and the like.
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