Coronavirus

[dfwatt]

Normative errors and Surgisphere - Peter Attia

Greetings -

On June 4th, the Lancet and the New England Journal of Medicine retracted two high-profile COVID-19 papers after critics challenged the data in those studies. The Lancet paper found COVID-19 patients treated with hydroxychloroquine and chloroquine were associated with more deaths and adverse effects, resulting in the World Health Organization halting its clinical trials that use hydroxychloroquine to treat COVID-19 patients. The NEJM study found that certain blood pressure drugs, including ACE inhibitors, were not associated with an increased risk of death among COVID-19 patients. Last month, the New York Times profiled Dr. Sapan Desai, founder of Surgisphere, the company that supplied the data for both retracted studies. Desai is a co-author on both the Lancet and NEJM papers. The Times story should be a case study on the importance of “normative errors” and why they cannot be brushed aside in medicine (or, frankly, anywhere else).....

Ancient history. Does not change the lack of support in randomized controlled trials.

 

[bkp_duke]

The Washington Post is reporting Trump is going to announce that he is authorizing convalescent plasma treatment. Article is behind a paywall, or I would share.

Well . . . that's not news at all. LoL. We've been saying CP is a viable treatment since the very beginning of this thing.

Typical Trump.

 

[madodel]

Well . . . that's not news at all. LoL. We've been saying CP is a viable treatment since the very beginning of this thing.

Typical Trump.

Yes but he has accused the FDA of being part of the Deep State, so he is defeating them. Huge win for the Q.

 

[TespaceX]

Trump reportedly considers fast tracking AstraZeneca vaccine before election

CP isn't the only news it looks like. He's going to be providing FT for ChAdOx1 nCoV-19 from AZ/Oxford.

So, this is Trump's newest strategy to boost his election hopes? Give authorization to pretty much all possible treatment options to show that he's really committed to turning things around in the US.

 

[Open Interest]

Well . . . that's not news at all. LoL. We've been saying CP is a viable treatment since the very beginning of this thing.

Typical Trump.

Sigh of relief that he’s not authorizing oleander!

 

[eevee-fan]

Trump reportedly considers fast tracking AstraZeneca vaccine before election

CP isn't the only news it looks like. He's going to be providing FT for ChAdOx1 nCoV-19 from AZ/Oxford.

So, this is Trump's newest strategy to boost his election hopes? Give authorization to pretty much all possible treatment options to show that he's really committed to turning things around in the US.

Nevada says "no thanks, we will be the control group"

 

[dhanson865]

My wife is appalled at the numbers of people who work at her hospital who have in the past refused to get a flu vaccine (required to wear a mask if no vaccine) saying they won't get the flu vaccine this year. These people are still scared of vaccines. COVID19 has changed little.

I've avoided the flu vaccine for the last 15-20 years. I got one or two flu vaccinations in that time frame but rarely got sick. Didn't have much money, didn't see the value.

Now I'm late 40s and covid-19 is in play. I plan to get a flu vaccine in a few weeks if for no other reason than to avoid having to wonder if I have Covid (reducing the chance I'll spread Flu and/or Covid is a plus).

Was I cavalier for a couple of decades because I had mild or no symptoms from prior flu bouts, Yep. Will I carry that stupidity into the Covid era, Nope. Not on my life. Not even on the risk of long term lung damage. I won't mess around. Everyone in my circle will be getting a Flu vaccine if I can help it.

 

[dhanson865]

Can't change one's age or need for organ transplant but that BMI figure is staring out as a modifiable factor, as are a few others in the list

hmm, BMI 25-29 doesn't look any worse than BMI 19-24 so I guess those on the 24/25 cusp aren't that bad off.

 

[dhanson865]

I've posted previously on the forum about the two ladies who started the DIY Fix the Mask braces that were developed when covid was first making it's presence in the US. The designer was a former Apple mechanical engineer. They've been improving the design since sharing the DIY patterns and started a Kickstarter campaign I decided to get in on before it closed out this past week. Shipping begins in September but I'm at the end of the list so mine probably won't arrive until October sometime and will comment on them then. They are also planning on selling these on a website down the road. Figured I'd at least make people aware of it. The Kickstarter page shows the improvements they made to the DIY design particularly around the nose area.
Essential Mask Brace | Secure your loose-fitting mask.

I figure it will be helpful to use for a higher level of covid face protection with surgical masks, and even helpful for mask wear in wildfire smoke, which I'm unfortunately experiencing now but probably will again in the future here in California. While N95s aren't selling to the public at this time you can buy the surgical masks in stores now.

I'd like to get 2 or 3 of those ((1 small), 1 medium, 1 large) but with the shipping costs I'd want to go in on a group order. Might see if I can get a group together here.

also thought this image was new info

 

[SMAlset]

I'd like to get 2 or 3 of those ((1 small), 1 medium, 1 large) but with the shipping costs I'd want to go in on a group order. Might see if I can get a group together here.

also thought this image was new info

The Kickstarter campaign was fulfilled on the 20th, so no way to presently get in on it until they sell them online. Sorry I didn't think to post here sooner. Just got in on the last day myself. The shipping cost in the US was only $5 for packs of 2 through 10 units, $15 for packs of 50 or 100. Can't beat that these days!

 

[dfwatt]

Normative errors and Surgisphere - Peter Attia

Greetings -

On June 4th, the Lancet and the New England Journal of Medicine retracted two high-profile COVID-19 papers after critics challenged the data in those studies. The Lancet paper found COVID-19 patients treated with hydroxychloroquine and chloroquine were associated with more deaths and adverse effects, resulting in the World Health Organization halting its clinical trials that use hydroxychloroquine to treat COVID-19 patients. The NEJM study found that certain blood pressure drugs, including ACE inhibitors, were not associated with an increased risk of death among COVID-19 patients. Last month, the New York Times profiled Dr. Sapan Desai, founder of Surgisphere, the company that supplied the data for both retracted studies. Desai is a co-author on both the Lancet and NEJM papers. The Times story should be a case study on the importance of “normative errors” and why they cannot be brushed aside in medicine (or, frankly, anywhere else).....

Dr. Attia's terminology and unusual jargon in this opinion piece leads to a potential obfuscation of what is really being described here. I've never heard this particular terminology despite serving on ethics boards and having been involved in numerous malpractice suites as a forensic expert. Attia's concept of "normative errors" is very misleading term. What he's talking about are in fact serious ethical violations, of the kind that raise questions about some form of sociopathic or narcissistic character disorder, including serial lying, fabricating of data and other serious ethical violations that don't come from conceptual knowledge or technical/skill deficits. The New York Times article makes it clear that this guy probably was some kind of narcissistic sociopath who's had a large wake behind him for many years. It's unfortunate that these types of serious character disorder are allowed to operate in healthcare and in medicine often times for a long time before they finally blow themselves up. If there is one good thing that can come from having a sociopathic chief executive over the long-term it may be that we seriously rethink our often times high tolerance for and generally poor detection of this particular type of character pathology.

 

[TSLAopt]

This is old news and does nothing to support the supposed effectiveness of HCQ, which has so far failed to stand up to randomized trials.

Interesting about the origin of how HCQ came about as as a solution/treatment:

“Wuhan was the epicenter, and the Chinese physicians at the People’s Hospital of Wuhan University told their Western counterparts that they got the idea of using HCQ because none of the 178 patients they had admitted for COVID-19 had lupus—a surprise, since lupus is an immune disease, and some thought it might have made these patients especially vulnerable. They wondered why this might be, and whether HCQ, which these patients had been taking for this preexisting condition, might in some way be protecting them against COVID-19....”


Hydroxychloroquine: A Morality Tale

This article is very well written and Taleb has retweeted it which is how i came across it..although I’m sure there are people on here who think they are smarter than both Elon and Taleb and seem to be in the ‘unwishful thinking’ boat tragically

 

[TSLAopt]

I just do not feel good about this:
Trump to reveal coronavirus 'breakthrough' therapeutic, WH press secretary says

We'll see what the orange moron has up his sleeve come 6PM EDT, but given we have seen very little on the scientific front, I'm expecting some political theater, and not actual science.

Orangeman Bad...ha..admitting your own bias at least, that’s the first step

 

[eevee-fan]

Hm... looks like back to normal to me.

Heavy traffic causes backup on I-15 at California-Nevada border

 

[JRP3]

because none of the 178 patients they had admitted for COVID-19 had lupus—a surprise, since lupus is an immune disease

Lupus is a rare disease, in a population of 178 patients it should not be a surprise to find none with Lupus. Also not all people with Lupus take HCQ so if Lupus patients do in fact have some sort of unusual immunity it might have nothing to do with HCQ.

In any case none of this explains why HCQ "results" never stand up to RCT's. It's not political, Trump promoted Remdesivir and Dexamethasone, you don't see us arguing against their use do you? (Though a recent study does call into question the effectiveness of Remdesivir Remdesivir has only marginal benefit for moderate COVID-19 patients - Express Pharma) My opinion on these drugs follows the science, nothing else. Your constant assumption otherwise speaks volumes about yourself.

 

[EVCollies]

hmm, BMI 25-29 doesn't look any worse than BMI 19-24 so I guess those on the 24/25 cusp aren't that bad off.

Low BMI patients usually have a severe illness causing weight loss, they fare poorly in any study.

 

[EVCollies]

I'd like to get 2 or 3 of those ((1 small), 1 medium, 1 large) but with the shipping costs I'd want to go in on a group order. Might see if I can get a group together here.

also thought this image was new info

If you can wear an N95 properly for your complete exposure to those outside of your circle of trust, they are superior.

If you remove the N95 at any time before the end of your chore though, you are better off with a high quality surgical mask which are much easier to wear without removal.

We all need to learn how to put on a mask prior to leaving the car, house, apartment... and then remove when we return to the car, house, apartment or arrive at work.

 

[ZeApelido]

Dr. Attia's terminology and unusual jargon in this opinion piece leads to a potential obfuscation of what is really being described here. I've never heard this particular terminology despite serving on ethics boards and having been involved in numerous malpractice suites as a forensic expert. Attia's concept of "normative errors" is very misleading term. What he's talking about are in fact serious ethical violations, of the kind that raise questions about some form of sociopathic or narcissistic character disorder, including serial lying, fabricating of data and other serious ethical violations that don't come from conceptual knowledge or technical/skill deficits. The New York Times article makes it clear that this guy probably was some kind of narcissistic sociopath who's had a large wake behind him for many years. It's unfortunate that these types of serious character disorder are allowed to operate in healthcare and in medicine often times for a long time before they finally blow themselves up. If there is one good thing that can come from having a sociopathic chief executive over the long-term it may be that we seriously rethink our often times high tolerance for and generally poor detection of this particular type of character pathology.

Attia is another carb-hating fat loving dumbarse who used to obfuscate exercise physiology / nutrition concepts as well.

Taubes, Teicholz and Attia should all line up and snort buttered up zinc until they pass out.

 

[bkp_duke]

Orangeman Bad...ha..admitting your own bias at least, that’s the first step

Um . . . I voted for Trump. Where is the bias?

When it comes to science, my 2nd grader is orders of magnitude smarter than him.

 

[dfwatt]

Orangeman Bad...ha..admitting your own bias at least, that’s the first step

News flash. To regard Trump as a sociopath is not a 'bias'. It simply means that you've absorbed the basic diagnostic criteria, can apply them, and have enough of an observed behavioral set to assess their potential validity. These difficulties have been particularly exposed in the Covid 19 crisis, where lying, manipulation, lack of empathy, grandiosity/arrogance, and lack of regard for the basic importance of establishing the safety of medicines have been on full display.

I'm cutting and pasting the criteria from the Mayo Clinic website because they're pretty representative although there are other criterial sets but the differences aren't really substantive.

Here's the challenge to you as someone who regards this clinical judgement as a bias. Which core criteria in your view does Trump not fulfill? Please advise. We eagerly await your answer.

Overview - Antisocial Personality Disorder
Antisocial personality disorder, sometimes called sociopathy, is a mental disorder in which a person consistently shows no regard for right and wrong and ignores the rights and feelings of others. People with antisocial personality disorder tend to antagonize, manipulate or treat others harshly or with callous indifference. They show no guilt or remorse for their behavior.

Individuals with antisocial personality disorder often violate the law, becoming criminals. They may lie, behave violently or impulsively, and have problems with drug and alcohol use. Because of these characteristics, people with this disorder typically can't fulfill responsibilities related to family, work or school.

Symptoms
Antisocial personality disorder signs and symptoms may include:

• Disregard for right and wrong
• Persistent lying or deceit to exploit others
• Being callous, cynical and disrespectful of others
• Using charm or wit to manipulate others for personal gain or personal pleasure
• Arrogance, a sense of superiority and being extremely opinionated
• Recurring problems with the law, including criminal behavior
• Repeatedly violating the rights of others through intimidation and dishonesty
• Impulsiveness or failure to plan ahead
• Hostility, significant irritability, agitation, aggression or violence
• Lack of empathy for others and lack of remorse about harming others
• Unnecessary risk-taking or dangerous behavior with no regard for the safety of self or others
• Poor or abusive relationships
• Failure to consider the negative consequences of behavior or learn from them
• Being consistently irresponsible and repeatedly failing to fulfill work or financial obligations

Adults with antisocial personality disorder typically show symptoms of conduct disorder before the age of 15. Signs and symptoms of conduct disorder include serious, persistent behavior problems, such as:

• Aggression toward people and animals
• Destruction of property
• Deceitfulness
• Theft
• Serious violation of rules