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That's one study that refutes dozens of others. And also runs counter to what we're seeing with our eyeballs in the US since we're essentially living in a petri dish the last 6 months. This study starts out with:

So they're basically taking the tiny tiny percentage of children who are symptomatically infected and treating them as all children. Meanwhile "adult" statistics are essentially one large, untrimmed group.

Some decent chunk of children(most, "a lot", who knows) don't seem capable of being infected, and of those who can, a very large proportion are completely asymptomatic. This study is essentially eliminates all them and gauges the infection nature of severe asthmatic and other compromised or otherwise susceptible children.

to me, at least, the data seems to indicate that kids <10yrs don't get infected or transmit anywhere near at the same rates as adults. Teenagers / High School seems to be pretty close to adults with middle school kids in-between.

Last I looked it seemed to be related to expression of the ACE2 receptor which is what the virus "spike" protein binds to.

Molecular interaction and inhibition of SARS-CoV-2 binding to the ACE2 receptor | Nature Communications

https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jama/fullarticle/2766522
 
AZ announcement claims 3 B doses for next year, twice Pfizer target. Spreadsheet for Colorado (1.78% US total population) updated.

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no way NYC is anywhere close to 60%

Yeah the projection from the website above suggests about 30%. Seems pretty reasonable at this point. I tend to think these numbers are slightly high but he has uncertainty on them and I agree the actual answer is very likely somewhere in the range he gives.

Certainly plenty of fertile ground for the virus to take hold again. If each infected individual exposes more than about 1.4 people to the virus, the epidemic will grow. Expose 1.6 people, and the cases will grow with Rt of about 1.1. Unconstrained, this thing on average seems to expose about 3 people, though it’s highly overdispersed, so if you don’t get rid of the high spread environments, the virus would have no problem overpowering this partial immunity. Obviously depends on who remains sheltered, and who is living live to the fullest.
 
no way NYC is anywhere close to 60%

Probably not, but I think they're the only major U.S. city that is even within a factor of three of that level. :)

That said, it's 60% of the exposed population, which isn't necessarily the same as 60% of the total population. If you manage to get 90% of the public to basically shelter in place and almost never interact with anybody, then herd immunity kicks in at 60% of the remaining 10%. You'll get occasional random one-off cases when you pass that threshold, but not very many.


Manaus, Brazil.

Oh, yeah. Forgot about that one.


We'd see tons of reinfections if that were true.

Not necessarily. Right now, there's not a lot of travel going on. A single strain of a virus can largely burn itself out in a community, and then another strain comes along from outside, and you're back to square one.


A mutation in the next 6 months that renders the mRNA vaccines ineffective but is still highly contagious and deadly? You seriously think that's a virtual certainty?

It's hard to say, and I might just be being cynical here. Either way, the point remains that the number of mutations is directly proportional to the number of hosts the virus has passed through, so the more times the virus is transmitted, the more likely you are to get a mutation that affects the efficacy of a vaccine, of natural immunity, etc.


Hyperbolic statements like this only feed the skepticism of the "unbelievably stupid, selfish, reckless, and irresponsible". And the America south has not been uniquely afflicted, death tolls are higher in the NE, for example.

The northeast was hit hard because it was hit early, before anybody had time to react, and also because its density is high enough to make it really, really hard for people to isolate themselves meaningfully. The fact that the South has relatively low density and had plenty of time to react, yet still epically failed to keep their numbers down to a sane level is a total embarrassment to me as someone who was born and raised there.

Some decent chunk of children(most, "a lot", who knows) don't seem capable of being infected, and of those who can, a very large proportion are completely asymptomatic. This study is essentially eliminates all them and gauges the infection nature of severe asthmatic and other compromised or otherwise susceptible children.

Harvard Gazette disagrees with you. To summarize: In a study of 192 kids and young adults, of which about one in 4 tested positive, during the first couple of days of the disease, the young patients shed a much higher viral load than adults, despite being asymptomatic. This is why I have serious doubts every time I read someone claiming that kids aren't a significant risk for spreading coronavirus. It really sounds like wishful thinking to me.
 
It really sounds like wishful thinking to me

Perhaps. But viral load here is a proxy for infectiousness. It may correlate. Or it may not correlate that well.

I don’t think anyone thinks kids don’t spread the disease. Well, maybe they do, but obviously that would be wrong.

But as long as businesses, restaurants, bars, and gyms are open for business, the schools (especially elementary schools) can very safely stay open. Once every single other business other than essential businesses are shut down (or are in full “lockdown” operation mode (no inside stuff and no gathering), and universities are online only, and high schools/middle schools are closed, then the elementary schools can be shut down.
 
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But as long as businesses, restaurants, bars, and gyms are open for business, the schools (especially elementary schools) can very safely stay open. Once every single other business other than essential businesses are shut down (or are in full “lockdown” operation mode (no inside stuff and no gathering), and universities are online only, and high schools/middle schools are closed, then the elementary schools can be shut down.

I disagree. If school were only 30 minutes or an hour per day, that might be true, but even if kids are only a tenth as likely to spread the virus as adults, having kids together for seven hours at a time still poses a higher risk of transmission than adults eating in a restaurant for half an hour, because the exposure is 14x as long.

IMO, K–5 schools should have capacity limits just like any other business. If businesses are running at 25% capacity indoors, then 25% of the class should meet on each day of the week, with the fifth day rotating between cohorts. And even that might not be cautious enough because of the duration involved.

Grades 6–12 should IMO be remote learning exclusively for the remainder of the 2020–2021 school year nationwide.
 
I disagree. If school were only 30 minutes or an hour per day, that might be true, but even if kids are only a tenth as likely to spread the virus as adults, having kids together for seven hours at a time still poses a higher risk of transmission than adults eating in a restaurant for half an hour, because the exposure is 14x as long.

IMO, K–5 schools should have capacity limits just like any other business. If businesses are running at 25% capacity indoors, then 25% of the class should meet on each day of the week, with the fifth day rotating between cohorts. And even that might not be cautious enough because of the duration involved.

Grades 6–12 should IMO be remote learning exclusively for the remainder of the 2020–2021 school year nationwide.

In the end, these decisions should be driven by data. Which we probably do have at this point. It's just not readily available to the public.

In any case, at this point, just give everyone a fast antigen test every day and be done with it. Low drama, easy solution when layered with everything else.
 
I don’t think anyone thinks kids don’t spread the disease.
Scott Atlas has joined the chat :)
The northeast was hit hard because it was hit early, before anybody had time to react, and also because its density is high enough to make it really, really hard for people to isolate themselves meaningfully.
NYC saw it shut down Wuhan and saw it taking off in Italy and Spain. They just thought they were different. Then the southern states thought "we aren't like NYC". Then the Plains states thought "we aren't like Texas". Everyone finds reasons to believe it won't hit them.

The density number that seems to matter most is persons per housing unit. Congregate settings are the worst, of course. Singapore had it licked until it got into the worker dorms. California's worst spread happened in the fields where population density is low but immigrant workers share living quarters.

NYC housing units per square mile is very high, but household size is well below average. Poor folks in the south living 4/6/8+ to a house are actually more vulnerable.
 
From Reuters article today but seen similar statements made by other medical staffs in midwest especially.

‘We’re drowning’: COVID cases flood hospitals in America’s heartland

“One patient at SSM Health in Janesville, Wisconsin, refused to believe COVID-19 was a serious threat, even as it consumed him, said Dr. Alison Schwartz, an infectious disease physician there. When he died, “the family did not want to admit this patient had died of COVID, because they didn’t believe COVID kills people,” she said.”

So if you are of that deny mindset, and you acknowledge that the flu kills people, why not covid-19? This thinking they take to their death makes no sense to me. Sadly still a huge problem in getting them to wear masks even. I feel for hospital workers and especially those doctors in small rural towns not trained or even equipped to handle this. More personal to them as they see neighbors affected, many needlessly and sometimes taking out both parents or multiple family members. Hopefully these doctors/nurses and support staff won’t succumb to it from dealing with patients, leaving their hometowns even more vulnerable and helpless to treat. Some tough realizations are ahead for these communities by year’s end. Don’t see this being a happy Thanksgiving or Christmas for many.
 
I thought New Mexico was following the science:
How New Mexico Controlled the Spread of COVID-19

They must have stopped right around the time that glowing piece was published:
New Mexico Coronavirus: 86,247 Cases and 1,428 Deaths (COVID-19 ) - Worldometer
I think pandemic fatigue is real. Most people only want to follow the science for so long. San Diego was doing relatively well but now we're hitting record cases every day.
My thinking now is I've only got to avoid COVID until spring. Hopefully we're about 2/3rds of the way through this debacle.
 
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I thought New Mexico was following the science:
How New Mexico Controlled the Spread of COVID-19

They must have stopped right around the time that glowing piece was published:
New Mexico Coronavirus: 86,247 Cases and 1,428 Deaths (COVID-19 ) - Worldometer

Kind of a weird statement. New Mexico is at 25th in per-capita deaths at the moment, and they have about 13% of their population infected (below average; compare to 15% of the US population). Compare to other states if you'd like. As with most states, they were forced to make a difficult set of tradeoffs in reopening known dangerous locations, since federal funds to bail out the appropriate businesses were not forthcoming.

COVID-19 Projections | New Mexico

The question now will be how well they can suppress the surge, and how well they make it through the winter.

There is something to be said for following the science. It works! That's pretty clear at this point, based on the extensive data available and comparing state outcomes.

86% of their cases are amongst Hispanic/Latinos (which make up 48% of their population), and I would guess that co-morbidities & socio-economic factors are playing a role in their somewhat higher than expected mortality. Cultural factors may play a role in the spread, as well.

You may not be familiar with the geography, but you'll note that the southern border of New Mexico is right across from El Paso, which is an absolute nightmare, and cases do not stay confined by state borders. 36% infected as of two weeks ago! Hard to see all the benefits of following the science when your neighbors on two sides are crapping in the pool.

COVID-19 Projections | El Paso

NMDOH COVID-19 Public Dashboard

We'll see how it goes for them, following the science. This extremely contagious virus requires multiple layers of protection to contain it, and certain measures cannot be relaxed (indoor dining, gyms, movie theatres, and large gatherings all have to be indefinitely brought to a halt, and appropriately compensated). It was easy to get complacent, especially during the summer.
 
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I think pandemic fatigue is real. Most people only want to follow the science for so long. San Diego was doing relatively well but now we're hitting record cases every day.
My thinking now is I've only got to avoid COVID until spring. Hopefully we're about 2/3rds of the way through this debacle.

I'm optimistic we'll keep it below 10% infected, at least through the end of the year. Just need to keep those stupid restaurants closed for indoor dining, and keep those gyms closed, etc. There's very little that can't be done outside.
 
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As the coronavirus swept across the world, it picked up random alterations to its genetic sequence. Like meaningless typos in a script, most of those mutations made no difference in how the virus behaved.

But one mutation near the beginning of the pandemic did make a difference, multiple new findings suggest, helping the virus spread more easily from person to person and making the pandemic harder to stop.
Evidence Builds That an Early Mutation Made the Pandemic Harder to Stop
 
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I think pandemic fatigue is real. Most people only want to follow the science for so long. San Diego was doing relatively well but now we're hitting record cases every day.

It's mostly a matter of politicians bowing to political pressure, and opening things too quickly, and ignoring the science about restaurants. Who would have thought that taking off your mask as soon as you get to the table makes you no more safe than not wearing one at all? Oh, yeah. Everybody. :(

It's a shame, too. Newsom did so well at the beginning. We were well on our way to reaching herd immunity among the small percentage of the public who were out and about. In fact, in my county, the numbers were solidly on the decline prior to the start of reopening, with an R0 (estimated using week-over-week case count) of significantly less than 1 on nearly every day from April 14 through May 14, averaging somewhere around 0.7. If we had stayed at that level of lockdown into early July, we would have reached double-digit cases for the county, which is a level at which contact tracing could likely have brought the new case count to zero within another week or two, if it had not done so already.

Unfortunately, instead of holding his ground for those eight weeks, he chose reelection over public health, and started reopening things on May 8. We immediately started seeing an increase in cases, and we crossed the R0 = 1 threshold exactly one week later on May 15. By June 18, I had given up on keeping statistics, because it was so obvious that no end was in sight. What a difference a month makes.