Cost to recharge Model 3

[ecarfan]

I had in mind, and I'm sure many more people too, that driving an electric car was a lot cheaper compared to ICE.

The cost to "fuel" an EV is much less than half the cost of a comparable ICE, plus there are lower maintenance costs long term.

But that isn't the main reason to buy a quality EV like a Tesla. The main reason is that they are fundamentally better cars than ICE vehicles, and the produce much less pollution: CO2, NOX, etc.

 

[socbrian]

Well, you could personally decrease your electricity cost by installing solar, as SageBrush suggested. But there are efforts to lower electricity costs for end-users, such as this one: L.A. County creates a lower-cost alternative for Southern California Edison customers

Additionally, the increased "tax" on EV owners, as far as I know, is through vehicle registration. California recently moved to implement this, I believe. However, they ALSO increased gas taxes (California gas tax increase is now law. What it costs you and what it fixes)

I agree, I think they will add the tax onto registration or pass new laws that you need to report miles on the every x years and you will get a tax bill for the amount of miles. Hard to tax the electricity at home, maybe at the superchargers, but at home it could just be a dryer.

 

[Stolz25]

Are you also taking into account cost of generation and cost of delivery?

Huh? I'm just quoting what I pay my electric company.

Residential Rates (Effective May 1, 2016) | VVEC

 

[SageBrush]

Agreed. Justifying the purchase of an electric vehicle by saving money on fuel is a silly argument. You are paying a huge premium on the cost of the car which easily wipes out any fuel savings.

True for a Tesla, though best not to generalize EVs

I bought a lightly used Nissan LEAF for $6,300 net after tax credits and pay ~ 0.5 cent a mile for fuel.
I figure it is good for 5-10 years and we drive it about 6000 miles a year for a monthly cost of $52 - $107.5

 

[insaneoctane]

The advantage of an EV is the control you have over your fuel costs, unlike gasoline. If your utility company does not give you a great deal on electricity, particularly at night when most charge and energy is cheapest, go solar. You can drive your energy and EV "fuel" costs down dramatically. You can control this.

 

[TaoJones]

Lower running costs over time???? The Model 3 gets more miles per kWh, so it will have lower running costs.

Today's Model S: $0.00/kW at CA SCs. Variable at home.
Today's Model 3: $0.20/kW at CA SCs. Variable at home.

The running costs for the Model 3 are unavoidable.
The running costs for a CPO AP1 Model S under warranty* are and will be less in practical use.

Over time, I expect that SCing will be included with the Model 3 as it is one of Tesla's best competitive advantages. However, for now, it is what it is.

* I consider a warranty an indispensable part of Tesla ownership at this time. Whether you buy it from Tesla or self-insure against future repairs, a budget item this would responsibly be.

 

[Super_Popular]

Who says "recharge"

 

[KarenRei]

Note to everyone in the thread: energy is measured in kWh, not kW

 

[KarenRei]

I know that I probably do more like 22mpg with my M235i on average rather than the 30mpg that I calculated but I also expect to not get the full EPA range estimation with the Model 3.)

Then why did you deliberately use wrong numbers? The rated economy of the M235i is 25mpg. You say you do worse than that, and instead you put a number a lot better than that?

Note that in the EPA calculations that give the 89 kWh figure the range actually works out to around 318 miles, not 310. But let's say that with your driving you actually get only 260 miles on 89kWh. And let's say that you can't get time-of-use rates and pay those crazy-high power rates. So $0.075 per mile. With your gas car at 22mpg and $3,39 per gallon on gasoline (I pay almost $8 USD ), that's $0,154/mi. You have an energy cost savings of $0,0788 per mile. Times 8000 (less than the average person) is $630. Times the 8 year warrantied lifespan of the pack (not that they just die after the warranty, the rate of range loss actually tends to decline over time) is $5,042.

To sum up the reasons you come up with a lower number than you expected:

* US gas is cheap, but US electricity prices are only average
* California electricity is expensive by US standards
* Your electricity is relatively expensive even by California standards
* You drive less than average.

 

[Qbenjamin]

Wish I had more scientific/calculated info for you, but here are my numbers on my S. I put around 125 miles per week on the car or around 500 per month. I noticed a slight spike of about $20 per month in my electric bill. I'll have to do more digging to find out exactly what my rates are locally, but I think it's around $0.0629 per kWh (don't quote me here). Hope this helps.

 

[SageBrush]

Today's Model S: $0.00/kW at CA SCs. Variable at home.
Today's Model 3: $0.20/kW at CA SCs. Variable at home.

kWh

 

[Twiglett]

I may be missing something, but the battery capacity has zero bearing on the cost to drive.
You are never going to drive to totally empty and charge all the way full unless you're trying to set distance records.

You can only charge based on how much driving you do, after that its simple math.
Cost of electricity * watts per mile - dead easy

 

[SageBrush]

I may be missing something,

He used that point to calculate the kWh/mile

The arithmetic was fine

 

[CarlitoDoc]

I live in WA. Power is cheap. But that was never the issue. I honestly believe that the savings come from less "service" costs (i.e., oil, filters, and maintenance in general).

 

[N5329K]

I drive two excellent hybrids (not at the same time). The first one paid for itself with fuel savings in six years. (I'm in year 15 now). Because I use so little gasoline, the Model 3, even at half the cost per mile, is not going to save significant dollars. Nevermind the purchase price. It will take years for savings to cover the cost of running a 50 amp 240V line to the garage. That's why I think the Tesla "savings calculator" is pretty bogus.
The real payback, it seems to me, comes from never having to wonder if a mined tanker in the Persian Gulf will spike fuel prices over $5. It comes from never having to stop at a gas station again.
How much is that worth to you?
Robin

 

[shrspeedblade]

I am on the SF Peninsula on PG&E's EV rate plan and I charge at night at less than $0.11/kWh.

I'm in the North Bay, I'm on the same plan but went with Marin Clean Energy's 100A% renewable that bumped my nightime rates all the way up to $.12/kWh

If you also get in the habit of running your appliances (dishwasher/dryer/etc.) the same time your rates are cheap it saves a little there and helps defray the cost!

 

[azred]

My per kWh unit cost in Phoenix Winter or Summer on a time of use plan is usually about $.10. (FYI, the monthly bill includes a $20/ month service fee, which is included in the $.10.) However our pump prices are also about a buck a gallon cheaper than California. Sparing you the math details, our Tesla S is significantly cheaper to "fuel" than my Honda hybrid even though it averages a great 45 mpg. But at current gas prices and excellent mpg of my Honda hybrid, I would never switch to the Model 3 as a big money saver.

What concerns me more than "fuel" cost differences are the costs of maintenance. The Honda maintenance isn't dirt cheap but the Tesla seems to be much more costly -- when warranty expires, that is. And of course a good part of that higher cost is it will be years before we can find a good independent mechanic for our Teslas. I know Elon promised that maintenance will not be a profit center, but he didn't say it will be inexpensive.

 

[vgrinshpun]

I would like to discuss cost of recharging a Model 3.

I read on another thread that it needs 89kw to recharge fully a LR Model 3.

I live in San Francisco and subscribed to CleanPowerSF to get 100% renewable energy. Last month my electricity bill was $25.70 for 115kwh used in one month:

• $15.05 for P&G Delivery Charge
• $10.65 for CleanPowerSF Generation charge.

So it's about $0.22 per kWh.

If my math are correct, this means that to fully charge a Model 3, the cost will be 89kw x$0.22 = $19.58 for 310 miles of range = $0.063 per mile.

If I compare it with my BMW M235i, a full tanks cost about 12 gallons x 3.39 (premium) = $40.68 for about 350 miles of range = $0.116 per mile.

I know that I probably do more like 22mpg with my M235i on average rather than the 30mpg that I calculated but I also expect to not get the full EPA range estimation with the Model 3.)

I drive about 8000 miles per year so the savings will be about $424 per year. It's way below what Tesla advertise on their website and much lower than what I thought I would save by driving electric and with 100% renewable energy.
Let's discuss

You are comparing apples and oranges. Your calculated cost per mile for Model 3 is based on EPA rating, but the cost for your BMW M325i is ***not***.

The EPA MPG for your car is 22 for Manual and 25 for Automatic. So assuming Manual transmission, the $3.39/gallon used in your calculation yield 3.39 / 22 = 0.154 per mile (33% higher than what you assumed!)

Based on the above savings would be $0.091/mile (as opposed to $0.053/mile that you estimated). For 8000 miles this works out to savings of $728 (vs.$424 that you calculated)

 

[Uncle Paul]

Interesting how the OP is willing to pay double to get green electricity (compared to standard utility rates in SF), but then compares the cost of using that green energy to fuel his car, compared to running the far dirtier gasoline car.

Solution for economics is to use the least expensive electrical supplier compared to the least expensive gasoline supplier, or to compare each venicle on their eco merits, but not to cross compare the gas economics to the expensive eco electricity.

Not fair to compare a premium eco electric source with the much dirtier gas powered car.

 

[Foxhound199]

Agreed. Justifying the purchase of an electric vehicle by saving money on fuel is a silly argument. You are paying a huge premium on the cost of the car which easily wipes out any fuel savings.

Does it though? The savings math alone was what led me to question the reasoning of those who were disappointed with what they get with the base model. I pay $0.09/kWh, and drive 12k miles a year, so that's $310/yr, or $3100 for 10 years. Over the life of my current car, gas was around $3/gallon on average, and I got about 25mpg. That comes out to $14,400. So say we've got our $35k car, let's say state and federal incentives at $10k, $11k in gas savings, you could be comparing a base Tesla to a car priced at $14k (before tax).

But let's go further: My work lets me charge for free, I plan to charge there almost exclusively, so let's just wipe out energy costs. I also figure $800 in oil changes gone. Plus, my state incentive is a little better than average, about $3200. If all else was held equal (not that I expect it would be), you'd be comparing to a car just under $10k for 10 year cost of ownership.