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CPUC Nem 3.0 discussion as it relates to Energy Products

jjrandorin

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Nov 28, 2018
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Riverside Co. CA
Wow, maybe I have been sleeping...Need to see what's going on lately with this CPUC proposal...

I think the grandfathering of NEM1.0 and NEM2.0 is 20 years, not 15 (unless they just retroactively changed it?)


The other thread that is being referenced by @h2ofun is here:

 

holeydonut

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Jun 27, 2020
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Zorg

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Oct 24, 2017
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Fremont, ca
I just read that the credit per KWh, starting NOW for everyone, would be like 5 cents per KW hour. Since we cannot make solar in the winter, I sure would consider resorting to the hack to just let me batteries charge from the grid and see what happens.

But the 240 per month just to have panels is NUTS!
If you have 30KW in solar panels and a crap load of PW (IIRC), wouldn't you be better off financially terminating the PGE service and get a natural gas generator to back up solar in the winter/rainy/smoky days? $240 a month would easily pay for a generator.
 

holeydonut

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If you have 30KW in solar panels and a crap load of PW (IIRC), wouldn't you be better off financially terminating the PGE service and get a natural gas generator to back up solar in the winter/rainy/smoky days? $240 a month would easily pay for a generator.

Will PG&E allow a home to sever its electricity service but keep its NG service?

I’m sure California is going to ban home generators entirely by 2030 lol.
 

ucmndd

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Mar 10, 2016
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California
When will existing paired customers have to pay the $8/kw? I may very well upsize my system some, add a few more poweralls, and then go off grid. I already have enough but want a buffer. I did it for 2 weeks after the install in late October of last year so not so far off lowest production of the year.
I believe adding new panels results in a new interconnect agreement at whatever the current tariff is.
 
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h2ofun

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Aug 11, 2020
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auburn, ca
If you have 30KW in solar panels and a crap load of PW (IIRC), wouldn't you be better off financially terminating the PGE service and get a natural gas generator to back up solar in the winter/rainy/smoky days? $240 a month would easily pay for a generator.
Great question. I have a 22kw propane generator. This is going to be interesting to watch. So they force new homes to have solar, and new they add another cost. Follow the money
 

jjrandorin

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Grid defection has been claimed illegal before without any proof. Usually starts with "I don't think....".

Last time I looked into this even a little bit, it appeared to me that if you are currently connected to the grid, you cant simply tell them to "come get your meter, I am disconnecting".. but I am not a legal expert by any means. Here is a document I found on the subject.

I am waiting for someone in a neighborhood to actually do this and be successful. I havent heard of it. I did read of a story of a person putting a powerpack in, because they wanted to be off grid and the requirements that were pushed on them.

 
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holeydonut

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Last time I looked into this even a little bit, it appeared to me that if you are currently connected to the grid, you cant simply tell them to "come get your meter, I am disconnecting".. but I am not a legal expert by any means. Here is a document I found on the subject.

I am waiting for someone in a neighborhood to actually do this and be successful. I havent heard of it. I did read of a story of a person putting a powerpack in, because they wanted to be off grid and the requirements that were pushed on them.


Yeah this topic came up the last time NEM was a hot issue in April. There's also this article about the challenges of 100% grid defection. IIRC wwhitney disagreed with some of their points, and it seems there are some examples of homeowners achieving grid defection by having multiple generation sources, storage, and enough land (edit: and money) to pull it off.

 
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jjrandorin

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Nov 28, 2018
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Riverside Co. CA
Yeah this topic came up the last time NEM was a hot issue in April. There's also this article about the challenges of 100% grid defection. IIRC wwhitney disagreed with some of their points, and it seems there are some examples of homeowners achieving grid defection by having multiple generation sources, storage, and enough land to pull it off.


I am in a "neighborhood" (track home). Even if I wanted to grid defect, I cant get enough solar to do so. Of course it depends on usage, etc, but in order to have enough solar to run a home in the winter, you have to have WAAY more than you would need in the summer. Even @h2ofun doesnt have enough for his winter needs, for example, for full grid defection (but he probably has a better way to get there than most of us, most likely, with land, lake etc).

Im on NEM 1, installed in late 2015, PTO'd in March of 2016, so under these new guidelines it sounds like I would be good till 2031 instead of 2036.

On a somewhat related but separate note, I expect that CA will try to do something similar with taxing EVs on registration, because a large portion of revenue comes from gas tax, and we are not paying that but still using the roads (and causing wear and tear on roads, as they state).

Trying to take my own needs out of it for a moment (which is very hard to do, admittedly), I dont know whats "right" or "fair". I dont feel like its "fair" to punish people for doing what was encouraged (getting solar, buying EVs), but I also dont know whats "fair" about paying for grid usage. The problem the utilities face is, the people who were paying the most for Electricity in this state (always in highest tier for example) were heavily incentivized to get solar because of that.

Then, they went from paying the utility 100s and 100s a dollars a month, to basically nothing, after install of solar (those that could afford to install solar). Their "most profitable" people turned into "No revenue at all" people. I used to pay 400+ dollars a month for electricity during the summer, and 200 ish a month during the winter, pre solar. I now pay $10 a month during the summer (which I net generate) and like $1 a month during the winter, when I net consume and pull back what I put in. My net yearly true up is less than $100.

I personally think this is fine, as I have very little impact on my local grid any longer, especially since I got powerwalls, but the utility sees me as lost revenue, I am sure (and thinks that I am not paying "my fair share" to upkeep the grid).

I dont know what the answer is. Even though I am born and raised in this state, and never lived outside it for any real length of time other than "months long" job re locations, I was always planning to move "somewhere else" when I reach my retirement years. Not sure where that is, frankly. This just helps solidify that decision for me, and I will start planning as such.
 

Zorg

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Oct 24, 2017
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Fremont, ca
Yeah this topic came up the last time NEM was a hot issue in April. There's also this article about the challenges of 100% grid defection. IIRC wwhitney disagreed with some of their points, and it seems there are some examples of homeowners achieving grid defection by having multiple generation sources, storage, and enough land (edit: and money) to pull it off.

Obviously, it's not feasible in urban areas where folks don't have enough land to pull off the Propane tank, generator, 4-5 PW and a ton of solar, so it's a moot point for most Californians. That being said, if you stop paying your IOU, don't they simply disconnect you? All in all, it's most likely not financially interesting to do so, but the pleasure derived from telling PGE to pound sand is close to priceless. :)
 
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