CPUC NEM 3.0 discussion

[holeydonut]

I lived in Yolo county in the mid-aughts when there was a (unsuccessful) measure put to voters to expand SMUD into neighboring PGE territory. The amount of money time and favors PGE cashed in on FUD to defeat that measure was staggering. They were willing to spend literally whatever it took to win (and they did).

And the ratepayers covered these costs to prevent the ratepayers from having a choice on who they sourced energy from.

PG&E has lobbying arms paid by employee-sponsored PAC's. They also have the ability to manipulate their interests through direct operating expenses.

 

[sunwarriors]

They were willing to spend literally whatever it took to win (and they did).

Probably cuz that's all your $$ need more $$, raise rates...oh wait, they already doing that.

 

[charlesj]

SF tried to do this as their power comes from a separate source, they wanted to buy all the transmission lines and PGE said no of course.

Eminent domain comes to mind.

 

[ohmman]

I've been chewing on this for the last few days and I've gotta say, the very threat of something so aggressively anti-consumer has me completely re-thinking the way I define "energy independence". I've long planned for an eventual upgrade of most of my house systems to electric after investing in solar and storage but at this point I think those plans are done.

I'm still on board with the transition - I've done the majority already so maybe that's the reason. So long as I can generate power onsite and store at least some of it, I will always be in better shape than being a 100% consumer to the utility. I can't burn wood in my particular location; I've driven through too much Central Valley haze caused partially by us coastal folks and I know the harm it can cause. Your situation may be different, or view on it may be as well; no judgement, just my own personal prohibition. So that leaves me with electric.

The one thing I'd like to keep is a gas wok burner. I like induction for everything else, but for a wok, I want a gas burner.

 

[holeydonut]

You know one thing I'm curious about (has almost nothing to do with NEM)... how come PG&E has not seemed more vocal about taking on (and presumably profiting from) charging so many EVs?

Like instead of profits going to Chevron and BP, now people are refueling at home and using the grid.

Why don't they just stick it to the EV charging infrastructure to pay "their fair share" for all that extra strain on the grid to move electrons that get stored in EV batteries? Like why don't they charge homeowners with EVs some "fixed cost" and charge any EV charging station a mega fixed cost for whatever their draw is?

Seems like an easier sell than slapping homeowners with solar.

 

[ohmman]

You know one thing I'm curious about (has almost nothing to do with NEM)... how come PG&E has not seemed more vocal about taking on (and presumably profiting from) charging so many EVs?

Like instead of profits going to Chevron and BP, now people are refueling at home and using the grid.

Why don't they just stick it to the EV charging infrastructure to pay "their fair share" for all that extra strain on the grid to move electrons that get stored in EV batteries? Like why don't they charge homeowners with EVs some "fixed cost" and charge any EV charging station a mega fixed cost for whatever their draw is?

Seems like an easier sell than slapping homeowners with solar.

^^ Bold post on an EV forum.

 

[Vines]

You know one thing I'm curious about (has almost nothing to do with NEM)... how come PG&E has not seemed more vocal about taking on (and presumably profiting from) charging so many EVs?

Like instead of profits going to Chevron and BP, now people are refueling at home and using the grid.

Why don't they just stick it to the EV charging infrastructure to pay "their fair share" for all that extra strain on the grid to move electrons that get stored in EV batteries? Like why don't they charge homeowners with EVs some "fixed cost" and charge any EV charging station a mega fixed cost for whatever their draw is?

Seems like an easier sell than slapping homeowners with solar.

Because the first taste is always free or cheap. They want us hooked on what they have first.

It's not until you absolutely rely on them that they will jack up the rates even more. For now, EV charging is actually very good for PGE. Much of it is done overnight when there is already excess generation capacity and they need to throttle down the generation facilities if the baseline is lower.

Imagine the strain on the grid when 50% of all cars are EV.

EVs with a networked charge infrastructure could theoretically also prevent brownouts if they are drawing too much, or soak up excess solar generation in the mid-day if there is an overproduction issue.

 

[RKCRLR]

I'm still on board with the transition - I've done the majority already so maybe that's the reason. So long as I can generate power onsite and store at least some of it, I will always be in better shape than being a 100% consumer to the utility. I can't burn wood in my particular location; I've driven through too much Central Valley haze caused partially by us coastal folks and I know the harm it can cause. Your situation may be different, or view on it may be as well; no judgement, just my own personal prohibition. So that leaves me with electric.

The one thing I'd like to keep is a gas wok burner. I like induction for everything else, but for a wok, I want a gas burner.

I'm on acreage and have trees that die or break off large limbs. If I wasn't burning them for heat I'd be burning them in a pile to reduce fire hazard. I'd more than happy to be able to call someone to come get the excess.

 

[ucmndd]

I'm on acreage and have trees that die or break off large limbs. If I wasn't burning them for heat I'd be burning them in a pile to reduce fire hazard. I'd more than happy to be able to call someone to come get the excess.

Same - I’ve actually been burning pine and oak from my property for like 7 years as we’ve slowly cleaned it up. Just finally got to the point this year where we bought a cord of almond.

We’re rural, about 2500 feet up in the foothills. I feel @ohmman ’s concerns about the impact - particularly down in the valley - but everything is a compromise I guess. I’m also very impressed with the massively reduced amount of smoke from our new-ish stove… it’s dramatically better than the old unit I grew up with and hundreds of times better than an open fireplace. Burns super hot though so you gotta be careful else you turn around and it’s 82 degrees in the house and the windows are open in February.

 

[holeydonut]

^^ Bold post on an EV forum.

Lol, I'm just trying to figure out why PG&E picked the solar-boogeyman when they could have picked the EV-driving-headless-horseman (or woman; I guess the boogey and flaming pumpkin head thing can be a woman).

EV owners also skew to be more wealthy and it'd be easy for PG&E to say EV drivers have more wealth to spend on "the grid." But I think @Vines is right (he's like always right lolz). PG&E needs EV drivers to get complacent and hooked on the grid first. Then you'll see PG&E go through the the CA DMV to attach a luxury/property tax on registered EV's for all that stress they are putting on the grid.

 

[holeydonut]

BTW, here's a funny read about NEM 3.0. It's an opinion piece where someone aggregated public comments the News received about the NEM 3.0 PD

I don't usually read the OCRegister, but this will give you some funny perspectives from both sides.

Lansner’s mailbag: Pay for your own solar, parasite

The CPUC may as soon as Jan. 27 dramatically dial back financial help for those considering new home power generation and prune the amount and length of savings offered by current solar roof owners…

www.ocregister.com

The funniest is probably the one I pasted below. You can always tell who is watching a bit too much Fox News when they put "socialist" to describe whatever it is they don't like.

“Solar subsidies create an aura of need and success for those minions of progressive socialistic ideology. A designed education system that denies truth from pre-school to failed liberal colleges allows dozens of failed socially engineered fantasies to drain our hard-earned tax dollars.”

 

[Zabe]

Same - I’ve actually been burning pine and oak from my property for like 7 years as we’ve slowly cleaned it up. Just finally got to the point this year where we bought a cord of almond.

We’re rural, about 2500 feet up in the foothills. I feel @ohmman ’s concerns about the impact - particularly down in the valley - but everything is a compromise I guess. I’m also very impressed with the massively reduced amount of smoke from our new-ish stove… it’s dramatically better than the old unit I grew up with and hundreds of times better than an open fireplace. Burns super hot though so you gotta be careful else you turn around and it’s 82 degrees in the house and the windows are open in February.

Bucked up and split a cord of Madrone last spring, really good wood. We also burn oak, cedar, pine. The house is all electric with a heat pump water heater at about 2600 feet. For the last 2 seasons all my firewood has come from the property, mostly due to PG&E finally starting to do some of their deferred brush/tree abatement. If they are finally held accountable and actually do the work I expect wildfire danger in the foothills will drop dramatically.

 

[sunwarriors]

BTW, here's a funny read about NEM 3.0. It's an opinion piece where someone aggregated public comments the News received about the NEM 3.0 PD

I don't usually read the OCRegister, but this will give you some funny perspectives from both sides.

Lansner’s mailbag: Pay for your own solar, parasite

The CPUC may as soon as Jan. 27 dramatically dial back financial help for those considering new home power generation and prune the amount and length of savings offered by current solar roof owners…

www.ocregister.com

The funniest is probably the one I pasted below. You can always tell who is watching a bit too much Fox News when they put "socialist" to describe whatever it is they don't like.

I think as we get more freak weather events like polar vortex/ice storm in Texas, that snow storm 3 weeks back killing power for 2 weeks+ for folks around Auburn, anti-solar subsidy people will be on the anti-utility/I'm fending for myself camp now so I better switch teams and yes, I want my subsidy too.

Texas was 80 degrees yesterday and now 35 tonight? I think I read some article:

MSN

I'd guess business really picks up for solar/storage/generators after these events.

 

[h2ofun]

I think as we get more freak weather events like polar vortex/ice storm in Texas, that snow storm 3 weeks back killing power for 2 weeks+ for folks around Auburn, anti-solar subsidy people will be on the anti-utility/I'm fending for myself camp now so I better switch teams and yes, I want my subsidy too.

Texas was 80 degrees yesterday and now 35 tonight? I think I read some article:

MSN

I'd guess business really picks up for solar/storage/generators after these events.

Yep, I continue to talk to folks around Auburn, grass valley who were out of power for like 2 weeks. Some may still be out. No one was prepared. Solar and batteries will not cut it either. Either generators, or wood.

 

[h2ofun]

I just got my latest PGE bill. I use about 60 to 80 kwh per day with heat pumps, christmas lights etc. And folks think any amount of solar and batteries could cover this and be off grid? Impossible. Even with my 30kw solar, I am lucky to average lets say 30 kwh per day per month in winter. Batteries would be dead if that is all I used. So again, for folks with gas, but thinks we should be all electric with EV's, etc, well, .. I walk the talk with a 99% electric house, and again, impossible, totally impossible, to be totally off grid!!

 

[ohmman]

I walk the talk with a 99% electric house, and again, impossible, totally impossible, to be totally off grid!!

In your location (and many others). It’s definitely possible in some coastal communities where the HVAC load is nearly zero. I have friends on the south central coast who never run heat and don’t have AC.

Like you, however, I would be hard pressed in my location to build a system that comfortably provides me off grid living. I could run a single mini split at 62, maybe, and use the local Supercharger in the winter, but it wouldn’t be “life as usual” or terribly comfortable.

 

[skepticcyclist]

I walk the talk with a 99% electric house, and again, impossible, totally impossible, to be totally off grid!!

Also some municipalities do not allow people to go off grid

 

[holeydonut]

Lol and there are PG&E proponents that think PG&E has everyone's best interest in mind. To the extent they were happy the CPUC just copy-pasta'd the IOU NEM 3.0 proposal.

PG&E Probation Ends As Judge Calls It a ‘Continuing Menace’

(Bloomberg) -- PG&E Corp. is ending a five-year felony probation as a “continuing menace to California,” a judge supervising the company said in his parting observations, noting the company went on a “crime spree” even as he tried to rehabilitate it.Most Read from BloombergEarly Omicron...

www.yahoo.com

“In probation, with a goal of rehabilitation in mind, we always prefer that criminal offenders learn to accept responsibility for their actions,” Alsup wrote. “Sadly, during all five years of probation, PG&E has refused to accept responsibility for its actions until convenient to its cause or until it is forced to do so."

 

[EVDRVN]

Lol, I'm just trying to figure out why PG&E picked the solar-boogeyman when they could have picked the EV-driving-headless-horseman (or woman; I guess the boogey and flaming pumpkin head thing can be a woman).

EV owners also skew to be more wealthy and it'd be easy for PG&E to say EV drivers have more wealth to spend on "the grid." But I think @Vines is right (he's like always right lolz). PG&E needs EV drivers to get complacent and hooked on the grid first. Then you'll see PG&E go through the the CA DMV to attach a luxury/property tax on registered EV's for all that stress they are putting on the grid.

Solar produces power they cant charge for and can use to load blance and Evs use power they get to bill for.

 

[RKCRLR]

It’s definitely possible in some coastal communities where the HVAC load is nearly zero. I have friends on the south central coast who never run heat and don’t have AC.

Those people should be charged a monthly surcharge for not doing their fair share to support the grid.