CPUC NEM 3.0 discussion

[Lloyd]

This article explains NEM 3.0 well. I wrote the CPUC and complained. Everyone should and request NON-PASSAGE of NEM 3.0

Tesla asks employees to fight back against new proposal that could destroy its biggest solar market

Tesla is rallying its employees to fight back against California’s NEM 3.0 proposal that could potentially make its biggest solar...

electrek.co

 

[holeydonut]

This article explains NEM 3.0 well. I wrote the CPUC and complained. Everyone should and request NON-PASSAGE of NEM 3.0

Tesla asks employees to fight back against new proposal that could destroy its biggest solar market

Tesla is rallying its employees to fight back against California’s NEM 3.0 proposal that could potentially make its biggest solar...

electrek.co

Lol I think it's funny Tesla has been silent during the NEM proceeding up until now. Enphase, LG, Sunrun, Sunpower, Semper, etc have all been meeting with CPUC members and their advisors. They've typically explained how important a useful ROI calculator is to encourage future solar adoption or to explain how drastic NEM changes could harm the residential solar industry.

Tesla has just kind of waited on the sidelines expecting the SEIA and CALSSA to have this under control.

 

[taphil]

You can certainly donate to whomever runs against Lorena Gonzalez. I plan to do so.

She resigned today to suck on another job as as leader of the California Labor Federation.

"The California Labor Federation consists of some 1,200 unions who represent 2.1 million union workers across private and public sector industries. The executive-secretary leads the organization and works with a nearly 50-member executive council comprised of the heads of labor councils and unions across the state." - LA Times

Which union is stronger? Solar or IOU?

 

[sunwarriors]

She resigned today to suck on another job as as leader of the California Labor Federation.

"The California Labor Federation consists of some 1,200 unions who represent 2.1 million union workers across private and public sector industries. The executive-secretary leads the organization and works with a nearly 50-member executive council comprised of the heads of labor councils and unions across the state." - LA Times

Which union is stronger? Solar or IOU?

More info:

Lorena Gonzalez Quits Assembly, Takes Top Job at California Labor Federation

San Diego's progressive powerhouse Lorena Gonzalez announced Monday she would resign from her Assembly seat Wednesday and become the leader of the California Labor Federation.

timesofsandiego.com

She seems crooked and will probably lose in the primary run off, so now, she gets appointed to this new cush gig? No wonder we have career politicians. No accountability.

 

[Merrill]

She is perfect for that job if you have ever had to deal with union leaders you will know why.

 

[h2ofun]

I am amazed how many folks have no idea about NEM3. Was talking to my friend who have solar and a tesla now. He is going to be moving and wants to put in a new solar system and charging on the new house. I asked if he know about NEM3 and he had zero idea. If this passes, shall be interesting how honest the sales folks will be

 

[holeydonut]

I am amazed how many folks have no idea about NEM3. Was talking to my friend who have solar and a tesla now. He is going to be moving and wants to put in a new solar system and charging on the new house. I asked if he know about NEM3 and he had zero idea. If this passes, shall be interesting how honest the sales folks will be

I don't think the average non-solar consumer cares about NEM 3. It's not the type of news that gets people all worked up over something they can feel.

The solar industry cares a lot (hence why companies like Enphase and Sunrun have shed billions in market capitalization in the last few weeks). As with all things, people will adapt or fall. Firms that only have ties to inefficient sales-based residential B2C solar-only will probably close their doors because their old sales tactic of profiting on high margin PPAs and Leases will evaporate. But I think companies that specialize in solar+ESS to higher-end homes will flourish since those are the customers who are now further incentivized to install their microgrids.

Larger firms like Sunrun and Sunpower will probably just start selling more B2B to get big solar on new housing starts and MASH properties. The former being a big bulk sale that is technically required by law and the new home buyer will have lost in the shuffle of the mortgage. The latter being an interesting avenue because landlords can simply pass NEM 3.0 (or VNEM) fixed costs straight to a tenant with impunity. So the landlord gets all the incentives to build the solar and ESS on the multi-home dwelling, but the renter pays the fees and overhead.

Can you imagine some person making $75k a year in the Bay Area renting a 750sq ft apartment for $2,600 then paying $60 a month of solar fixed costs fees to PG&E?

 

[Southpasfan]

I lodged a comment, pointing out how misguided this was, on the CPUC site. The comments are like 100% against, and there are 500 pages of them.

Most of the comments are pretty well reasoned, too.

 

[holeydonut]

I lodged a comment, pointing out how misguided this was, on the CPUC site. The comments are like 100% against, and there are 500 pages of them.

Most of the comments are pretty well reasoned, too.

Yep, some of the comments there are mirroring what we've seen here on TMC.

This Tony Wilcox fellow in Redwood City is also super peeved since he just converted his NG stuff to Electric. He's coming to the realization he made a mistake. He thought he could pull a @h2ofun and generate monster solar energy in the Summer to offset Winter energy consumption to heat his home. But now he's realized NG is the way to go under the current NEM 3.0. Maybe I can convince him the even better way to go is to burn some firewood haha.

----------------------------------------------------

Tony Willcox
Redwood City, CA 94061

I recently converted my home to full electric with a solar system to provide the net energy (13.5k kWh/yr). I shutoff the natural gas line to the house and replaced all gas appliances with electric/heat pump. I would not have done this (and will struggle to convince others to do so) with the proposed NEM policy changes.

I accept that using the grid needs solar producers to contribute for grid upkeep/maintenance, but please be cautious on how this is executed as we all need to have more clean energy and keep it economically attractive - or clean technologies will cease to be purchased by end-users. Heat pump heating (which uses 1/4 of the energy of even the most efficient gas furnace) requires more energy in cold months - moving electric energy consumption towards the morning/evening and winter - out of sync with Solar.

The removal of net energy metering policy (and a cheap energy source in the winter) will mean there is no financial motivation to change from combusting natural gas, particularly for heating needs - the largest offender of NG consumption in a home. Any anti net-energy-metering policy STRONGLY disincentivizes users from electric alternatives that avoid gas and use less energy (via heat pumping or electric appliances). This would be a terrible and direct hit to GHG reduction in the future as it will not be afforded by end-users due to negative economics.

Further, the removal of a net energy metering policy motivates people to design their solar system to align only with their own personal energy use profile (not the grid total or max clean energy production). This means people will reduce their total GHG reduction (per $$ spent) because they will optimize their solar system only to their use case and cost of energy - not maximum energy production. This can only reduce the total clean energy generated and paid for by the end-user.

For example, a user like myself with more winter electric consumption than summer (due to heat pumping) would opt for heavily south facing panels - and make significantly less annual power for the same $$ into panels. Less net annual clean energy is the wrong direction. Reducing the maximum clean energy available will delay the development of much-needed clean-energy-storage technologies. Excess clean energy is needed before these technologies make economic sense.

 

[h2ofun]

Yep, some of the comments there are mirroring what we've seen here on TMC.

This Tony Wilcox fellow in Redwood City is also super peeved since he just converted his NG stuff to Electric. He's coming to the realization he made a mistake. He thought he could pull a @h2ofun and generate monster solar energy in the Summer to offset Winter energy consumption to heat his home. But now he's realized NG is the way to go under the current NEM 3.0. Maybe I can convince him the even better way to go is to burn some firewood haha.

----------------------------------------------------

Tony Willcox
Redwood City, CA 94061

I recently converted my home to full electric with a solar system to provide the net energy (13.5k kWh/yr). I shutoff the natural gas line to the house and replaced all gas appliances with electric/heat pump. I would not have done this (and will struggle to convince others to do so) with the proposed NEM policy changes.

I accept that using the grid needs solar producers to contribute for grid upkeep/maintenance, but please be cautious on how this is executed as we all need to have more clean energy and keep it economically attractive - or clean technologies will cease to be purchased by end-users. Heat pump heating (which uses 1/4 of the energy of even the most efficient gas furnace) requires more energy in cold months - moving electric energy consumption towards the morning/evening and winter - out of sync with Solar.

The removal of net energy metering policy (and a cheap energy source in the winter) will mean there is no financial motivation to change from combusting natural gas, particularly for heating needs - the largest offender of NG consumption in a home. Any anti net-energy-metering policy STRONGLY disincentivizes users from electric alternatives that avoid gas and use less energy (via heat pumping or electric appliances). This would be a terrible and direct hit to GHG reduction in the future as it will not be afforded by end-users due to negative economics.

Further, the removal of a net energy metering policy motivates people to design their solar system to align only with their own personal energy use profile (not the grid total or max clean energy production). This means people will reduce their total GHG reduction (per $$ spent) because they will optimize their solar system only to their use case and cost of energy - not maximum energy production. This can only reduce the total clean energy generated and paid for by the end-user.

For example, a user like myself with more winter electric consumption than summer (due to heat pumping) would opt for heavily south facing panels - and make significantly less annual power for the same $$ into panels. Less net annual clean energy is the wrong direction. Reducing the maximum clean energy available will delay the development of much-needed clean-energy-storage technologies. Excess clean energy is needed before these technologies make economic sense.

Yep, never would have spent the money to put on so many north panels. Not sure I would have done any solar. What is my ROI and 100K worth of solar? With the 8 bucks per KW, not in my lifetime

 

[sunwarriors]

Another downside with the $8/kW is that northern CA gets less sun than southern CA. Is it fair to charge this fixed fee by panel size so charge more to No. Cal people for less solar production? What about people who only have primarily north facing roofs and need to over-size due to lower generation? At least within the same service area, everyone is paying the same as you.

I think going in any 'one' direction is risky. Maybe Tony Wilcox is a put all your chips in 1 basket type of guy...I personally prefer to spread my risk sorta like it's good to have Roth IRA/401k, regular IRAs, taxable retirement, investment properties, whatever so if any IOU/government makes changes, you can be more flexible and adjust.

Could see NG, big propane tank in the back yard, generator, solar, batteries, wind turbine giving you max flexibility/options.

 

[skepticcyclist]

Another downside with the $8/kW is that northern CA gets less sun than southern CA. Is it fair to charge this fixed fee by panel size so charge more to No. Cal people for less solar production? What about people who only have primarily north facing roofs and need to over-size due to lower generation? At least within the same service area, everyone is paying the same as you.

I think going in any 'one' direction is risky. Maybe Tony Wilcox is a put all your chips in 1 basket type of guy...I personally prefer to spread my risk sorta like it's good to have Roth IRA/401k, regular IRAs, taxable retirement, investment properties, whatever so if any IOU/government makes changes, you can be more flexible and adjust.

Could see NG, big propane tank in the back yard, generator, solar, batteries, wind turbine giving you max flexibility/options.

The same question even within the same part of the state under the same utility provider. Coastal SoCal and NorCal get much less sun that inland SoCal and NorCal. Is it fair to charge the same to those on the coast who are constantly under a marine layer while those in the valleys or deserts get a lot more sun?

For example, it is fair to charge someone in Malibu the same as someone in Palmdale? Both use SCE and both are in LA County. Palmdale in the high desert rain shadow of the San Gabriel mountains gets a lot less sun than Malibu and about 1/10 of the rain

 

[brian.c]

Another downside with the $8/kW is that northern CA gets less sun than southern CA. Is it fair to charge this fixed fee by panel size so charge more to No. Cal people for less solar production? What about people who only have primarily north facing roofs and need to over-size due to lower generation? At least within the same service area, everyone is paying the same as you.

This is my biggest issue with the fixed fees. I have a total of 12.7kw of panels, I would be extremely lucky to hit 9.5kw of output. There is also no consideration if the system is down, if the system has degraded over time etc. My original system installed 10 years ago outputs about 80% of what it was new. I need to replace 4 panels, which now I am thinking more of taking it offline when my Nem resets to 3.0 in 4 years. 2/3 of my panels face east, the other 1/3 face west. If Nem3 passes, I would be looking at options to downsize my systems to optimize the benefits. The $8 fee is a killer for larger systems, and you are much better off putting in a system just big enough to power your home during the day. Even if we just removed the $8 fee, my yearly bill would not be too far off of what I was paying before adding the second system. My previous true up was about $1200, with the added second system, under nem 3 without the $8 fee, I calculated about $1000 true up. Add in the $8 fee I am over $2k a year. We added an EV, so our use is higher now, but not that much more. When adding in the second system, we based the size on adding the EV, then having 10% reserve so we could start replacing gas appliances in the future. I guess now no reason to be shopping for new appliances.

 

[getakey]

why not make the charge like NBCs. Charge based on power pulled from grid as well as power sent to grid, but that $.05/kWh credit has to go way up!

 

[brian.c]

why not make the charge like NBCs. Charge based on power pulled from grid as well as power sent to grid, but that $.05/kWh credit has to go way up!

Because they won't be able to charge what they want. Even if we completely removed NEM, 0 credit on exports. I still come out way ahead than the current proposal. Current proposal my average bill will be about $200, no NEM at all, about $125, current bill is the minimum $10 as of now. The export value in NEM 3 really comes out to a few bucks a year, I figure my exports under NEM 3 are only worth about $150 a year... The real fix is raise the minimum bill amount across the board to all customers...

 

[getakey]

Because they won't be able to charge what they want. Even if we completely removed NEM, 0 credit on exports. I still come out way ahead than the current proposal. Current proposal my average bill will be about $200, no NEM at all, about $125, current bill is the minimum $10 as of now. The export value in NEM 3 really comes out to a few bucks a year, I figure my exports under NEM 3 are only worth about $150 a year... The real fix is raise the minimum bill amount across the board to all customers...

but raising the minimum the same across the board is what is unfair. Why should a mixed NG/electric customer pay the same minimum electric bill as an all electric customer?

I know they won't be able to charge what they want. What they want will kill residential solar

 

[h2ofun]

Has anyone called PGE or .. and see if one can get a non export license so in theory, one would not have to pay the 8 buck charge?

 

[brian.c]

but raising the minimum the same across the board is what is unfair. Why should a mixed NG/electric customer pay the same minimum electric bill as an all electric customer?

I know they won't be able to charge what they want. What they want will kill residential solar

I think the minimums are based on service... My minimum electric bill is about $10 a month, I could not find anything for minimum on gas... This begs to ask the question, will they start wanting to charge us a minimum gas charge if we start replacing gas appliances with electric.

 

[brian.c]

Has anyone called PGE or .. and see if one can get a non export license so in theory, one would not have to pay the 8 buck charge?

I am not going to worry about it yet, I have a little over 4 years of nem under the current proposal. At year 3 I will start investigating my options. Too much can change between now and then.

 

[wwhitney]

Has anyone called PGE or .. and see if one can get a non export license so in theory, one would not have to pay the 8 buck charge?

Here you go:

Interconnections

Learn about interconnecting independent power sources to PG&E's electric system.

www.pge.com

If you are interested, you can read through the requirements and the interconnection agreements and tell us what the cost and gotchas are.

Cheers, Wayne