Yeah, I think I'll probably shoulder that burden, as well! Talk about problems I never thought I had.....
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Critique My Strategy: Blindly Buying the Base Model
- Thread starter Eric S
- Start date
Yeah, I think I'll probably shoulder that burden, as well! Talk about problems I never thought I had.....
Clarification:
Navigation (Turn-by-turn) is standard now, so you can dismiss my suggestion earlier. This was not always the case. It used to be part of the "Tech Package". Maps were always available.
The only reason I pointed this out earlier is because I got a loaner once that did not have turn-by-turn navigation. You could enter a destination, it would show it to you on the screen, but there was no way to get the car to tell you how to get there.
Navigation (Turn-by-turn) is standard now, so you can dismiss my suggestion earlier. This was not always the case. It used to be part of the "Tech Package". Maps were always available.
The only reason I pointed this out earlier is because I got a loaner once that did not have turn-by-turn navigation. You could enter a destination, it would show it to you on the screen, but there was no way to get the car to tell you how to get there.
That means Tesla's bean counters have done a good job at pricing. They know their market, and what people will spend for what things at what points. It's also, surely, a function of the passion and enthusiasm the products incite. Emotionally-involved customers are far more likely to up-pay.
I'm NOT in this market, so the numbers don't hit me that way. And I work hard to contain my consumerist emotions (hence this thread, about my strategy of not even vetting options).
To add my 2 cents, I have what seems to be a low-option car (Dec 29/15). I came from a Subaru Outback, which was up until then the nicest car I had owned. I got a few options, and can provide my reasoning. Had my use-case been different, I would have gone for no options.
Options I did get:
-D. Got it because it is generally snowy 5 months of the year here, and after having driven AWD for the past 10 years, couldn't imagine not having it. If I lived in balmier climes, it would be out.
-Winter package. Got it because it's cold here 7 months of the year. Again, if I lived somewhere warmer, wouldn't do it. As it is, I mainly got it for the heated wipers. Used the heated steering wheel twice last winter even after having the car parked outside at work all day at -30C.
-Premium interior. Got it for the black headliner, since I have two young kids. Now that it is a stand-alone option, I would just get the headliner. If I didn't have little kids, I wouldn't do it.
-90 kWhr battery. Got it because there are two Superchargers in all of Alberta, and I have a regular trip of 360km with only a 110V outlet waiting for me at the end, which I need to do in the winter as well. If I had robust Supercharger support, or didn't have that drive, I would have gone lower. For now though this is one I would do again until the infrastructure situation here improves, which is not likely in the next 10 years.
-Blue. Got it cause it looks nice. Would be just as happy with basic white. This was an option I changed in my 5-day thinking period after placing the order before confirming it. No regrets, but certainly not required.
Lastly, I'm leasing mine. 4 yrs, 80,000 km. I figure by the time the lease is up the 3 will be out and I can decide to buy my lease out, or change to a 3 (really waiting for a Y, actually).
Zero regrets, zero envy of Ps or panos or air suspension etc. Those might take the car to 11, but the base car is still a 10 to me.
Best of luck with your decision. Oh, and for what it's worth, I had never even seen a Tesla in person, much less sat in or test-driven one, before I took the plunge. Uncharacteristic for me, but it's worked out nicely.
Options I did get:
-D. Got it because it is generally snowy 5 months of the year here, and after having driven AWD for the past 10 years, couldn't imagine not having it. If I lived in balmier climes, it would be out.
-Winter package. Got it because it's cold here 7 months of the year. Again, if I lived somewhere warmer, wouldn't do it. As it is, I mainly got it for the heated wipers. Used the heated steering wheel twice last winter even after having the car parked outside at work all day at -30C.
-Premium interior. Got it for the black headliner, since I have two young kids. Now that it is a stand-alone option, I would just get the headliner. If I didn't have little kids, I wouldn't do it.
-90 kWhr battery. Got it because there are two Superchargers in all of Alberta, and I have a regular trip of 360km with only a 110V outlet waiting for me at the end, which I need to do in the winter as well. If I had robust Supercharger support, or didn't have that drive, I would have gone lower. For now though this is one I would do again until the infrastructure situation here improves, which is not likely in the next 10 years.
-Blue. Got it cause it looks nice. Would be just as happy with basic white. This was an option I changed in my 5-day thinking period after placing the order before confirming it. No regrets, but certainly not required.
Lastly, I'm leasing mine. 4 yrs, 80,000 km. I figure by the time the lease is up the 3 will be out and I can decide to buy my lease out, or change to a 3 (really waiting for a Y, actually).
Zero regrets, zero envy of Ps or panos or air suspension etc. Those might take the car to 11, but the base car is still a 10 to me.
Best of luck with your decision. Oh, and for what it's worth, I had never even seen a Tesla in person, much less sat in or test-driven one, before I took the plunge. Uncharacteristic for me, but it's worked out nicely.
f-stop
Active Member
then I'm thinking you'd really like the next gen seats - did you test drive an S with them? the next gen are nicely shaped w/ good bolsters and are very comfortable, much more so than the std seats IMO. I think the next gen look so much better too.
I have a D and only test drove 2 other D before purchase, plus I'm used to AWD (prev. Audi S4 for 15yrs) so I can't compare to a RWD Model S which I know others love. yes my 70D feels like it's on rails, dry or wet (it can get very wet around here). It a very heavy car (1000lb heavier than my S4) so it definitely doesn't feel as nimble tossing it into corners as my old car (or your Miata!) but no fear pushing the MS hard around a curve. With a good set of winter tires, hoping it will be as much fun to drive in snow as my old S4. But if you don't live where weather can get severe (whether wet or snow) maybe D won't make much difference to you?
Neuromancer
Member
IMHO, you will be blown away and happy with the base model. I have almost all the options (everything but Air Suspension, rear seats, or dual chanrger), and the only thing I consider indispensable is Auto Pilot. I have a nasty bumper to bumper daily commune though, so if you don't have this, AP may not be that important to you.
Have no fear of the base beauty of MS.
Have no fear of the base beauty of MS.
I have for some reason only pictured autopilot for open highway runs. Can you describe what it's like for that sort of commute?
mikeash
Active Member
I don't have a daily commute, but I have a regular weekly run through DC's evening rush hour on the beltway. With Autopilot, I just pick a lane, engage the system, and relax. Usually I have a friend along to chat with. I watch the road but don't have to manage every little thing.
I had Autopilot fail to engage once (bad frunk latch, turned out) and that time it was just awful. Constantly concentrating on the car in front to avoid ramming them or getting too far behind.
Autopilot is great on the open highway, but bumper to bumper traffic is where it really shines. It takes all the stress away. (Unless you're late. It can't fix that.)
I had Autopilot fail to engage once (bad frunk latch, turned out) and that time it was just awful. Constantly concentrating on the car in front to avoid ramming them or getting too far behind.
Autopilot is great on the open highway, but bumper to bumper traffic is where it really shines. It takes all the stress away. (Unless you're late. It can't fix that.)
I saw a video of an S on autopilot in stop/go traffic. The driver said he keeps an eye out in case someone cuts in really close. In those cases, requiring fast breaking, he says he doesn't trust the AP. But this doesn't make sense to me. That's a circumstance where the car would likely have the edge. He's wrong, right?
If so, what exactly ARE you watching for, aside from intuitive issues (you notice that a car approaching on your side is distracted or drunk and you want to move over as far as possible to avoid, etc.) or edge cases (you see an object in the adjacent lane and need to slow to let the car in that lane come in ahead of you - or speed up so he can come in behind you)?
If so, what exactly ARE you watching for, aside from intuitive issues (you notice that a car approaching on your side is distracted or drunk and you want to move over as far as possible to avoid, etc.) or edge cases (you see an object in the adjacent lane and need to slow to let the car in that lane come in ahead of you - or speed up so he can come in behind you)?
mikeash
Active Member
The main thing I'm watching for is people partially changing lanes in front of me. The car doesn't seem to do a good job at detecting a car angled partly into my lane, as might happen when someone begins changing lanes but doesn't commit (either because they're fearful idiots, or because they're too close to the car in front to complete the maneuver). I'd bet that Autopilot will stop before it collides with them, but I've never been brave enough to let it get close enough to test that theory, plus it gets close enough that it seems rude. I just hit the brake when that happens, then re-engage autopilot once they're fully in my lane.
I also keep an eye on big trucks when I'm next to them, since they may not see me and there's the remote possibility that they'll change lanes into me. Autopilot's side collision mitigation will only move you so far, and it also can't detect trailers reliably, since they don't stick down far enough in the middle. I've yet to actually have a truck move on me while using Autopilot, but it's something I watch for just the same.
Another problem area is if the car in front of me allows a large gap to develop in front of them, and then they change lanes. This gives my car a sudden large gap, and Autopilot will accelerate into it much more than I like. I don't like large speed differentials with adjacent traffic, in case someone cuts over without looking, and it will also brake later than I prefer when it finally approaches the car at the end of the gap.
To be clear, 99.9% of the time it handles everything for me, and I'm just monitoring. But it's not perfect, which of course is why I'm monitoring.
I also keep an eye on big trucks when I'm next to them, since they may not see me and there's the remote possibility that they'll change lanes into me. Autopilot's side collision mitigation will only move you so far, and it also can't detect trailers reliably, since they don't stick down far enough in the middle. I've yet to actually have a truck move on me while using Autopilot, but it's something I watch for just the same.
Another problem area is if the car in front of me allows a large gap to develop in front of them, and then they change lanes. This gives my car a sudden large gap, and Autopilot will accelerate into it much more than I like. I don't like large speed differentials with adjacent traffic, in case someone cuts over without looking, and it will also brake later than I prefer when it finally approaches the car at the end of the gap.
To be clear, 99.9% of the time it handles everything for me, and I'm just monitoring. But it's not perfect, which of course is why I'm monitoring.
Mikeash,
Every word of that makes sense.
I'd imagine my conundrum would be to choose one of these mindsets:
1. Watch for certain things (e.g. the things you stated, plus the sort of things I mentioned) plus unexpected edge cases, or
2. Watch just generally/normally.
In other words, to be on alert for AP's deficiencies, or mostly just be on normal alert.
You know what I mean?
Every word of that makes sense.
I'd imagine my conundrum would be to choose one of these mindsets:
1. Watch for certain things (e.g. the things you stated, plus the sort of things I mentioned) plus unexpected edge cases, or
2. Watch just generally/normally.
In other words, to be on alert for AP's deficiencies, or mostly just be on normal alert.
You know what I mean?
mikeash
Active Member
I think it's much the same as watching while you drive. These are all problematic scenarios there as well, after all. The main difference is that with Autopilot you don't have to devote any attention to the routine steering and speed management. This leaves more attention available for watching, chatting, rockin' out, or whatever.
Julesp313
Member
I'm about six weeks into ownership - came from a Lexus, so not exactly a low-end car but still half the cost of the S. I have the 70D - living in Minnesota, AWD and the subzero package were not optional. The pano roof is very nice and I've used it a lot already (didn't need the headroom, I am short) and the next-gen seats are significantly more comfortable for me than the standard ones. I also paid the money for silver because I liked it, but if funds had been tighter, I would've gotten the "comes with" white. My only other option was AP, partly for resale value but mainly because it is a handy option for distance driving - and here in MN, there are a lot of straight and rather boring highways, so AP comes in very handy.
I regret none of my choices (still obviously very new to ownership!) but if I were looking to save money, I would've passed on the pano roof and color only - AWD, subzero, next gen seats and AP are not optional for me.
I regret none of my choices (still obviously very new to ownership!) but if I were looking to save money, I would've passed on the pano roof and color only - AWD, subzero, next gen seats and AP are not optional for me.
jelloslug
Active Member
On my 60D I just ordered I skipped options that I could add later. I know that it will cost more to do so but it helps keep the required monthly payments down to a "reasonable" level and will also give a new toy to play with at a later date...
e-FTW
New electron smell
Your helpful message made a lot of sense, but I'm not grokking the resale value on AP.
e-FTW
New electron smell
A lot of people use a lot of different terms to describe what they feel is the advantage of having a 'D' model S. An accurate description is hard to provide when you don't own one of each (a D and a non-D) and cannot drive them back to back on the same stretch of road. (Somebody should get on that... I'll provide the s70, you provide the D!)
But back to the topic at hand: what exactly is the difference? I don't know, since I haven't performed the above test yet. What I can tell you is that I have driven FWD for most of my life, in the snowy climes of Canada. And with good snow tires (not all-seasons), those cars did just fine. You learned a lot about understeer and how to separate your use of the power and the steering much more than in the dry or wet. Then, for about six years, I upgraded to the aforementioned WRXs. AWD, uneven torque curve, big turbo lag, etc. So very easy to break traction, which made every slow turn on my commute a (controlled) blast. Good times.
Then I moved to CA, and after a bit, got this RWD Model S. This is my first RWD car, or as many car enthusiasts call it, "proper wheel drive". I had little interest in getting a D model, and decided to use the $5k to treat myself to the red color, pano roof and AP. I figured that millions of people over decades have been happy with FWD in the northern climes, and many more millions did just fine before that with RWD in the same slippery climes, so I should be allright in drought-stricken California with RWD. And I am.
This car clearly is well-balanced, and gunning it on a straight line does not induce unexpected oversteer. It pulls out of turns very well, but I know for a fact that this last part is where a D model would have an edge. Coming out of a turn, I will always temper my use of the accelerator, as I have come to learn from my years in FWD cars in the snow. But the TC is there, and I can still be an idiot with the go-pedal if I feel like it. I describe how the car behaves in those circumstances as being "alive" under me, and challenging me to hold on to it. But it is not really, since as I mentioned earlier, the traction control is fantastic, quick and precise, but not overbearing like your mom. When I get on an onramp and give it the beans, I can feel it working over the bumps and can tell that it is allowing a touch of slip up until highway speeds. Since you seem to be a better driver than I am (because Miata), I am sure you may find the TC too intense for your tastes, and feel free to turn it off if you go for a test-drive. Report back with your impressions! And the Tesla employee's...
I think it comes down to everyone's own expectations. Most buyers of cars in this price range expect AWD like they expect electric accessories for most functions, and high-quality materials. Some of this also has to do with perception: AWD sounds safer, and probably is, even in CA. But people often mix handling characteristics with traction, which I do not believe you will @Eric S .
Morristhecat
Member
I think if I had to do it again, with all the new features of the base compared to what I have, I would simply get a base with autopilot. Perhaps a color choice, but that is it. I have air suspension, but don't really use it much. The standard dash trim is nicer than plain black which it used to be. The standard seats are fine. I don't have a sunroof, no regrets. We sometimes get snow here, but I still don't see the point of all wheel drive - rear wheel drive works great if you have snow tires. Since you are trying to save a bit of $, don't forget a referral code - see below...
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