Sorry to hear about this, Measton. I have a stack of dead MCU's (Multimedia Control Units) accumulating in my lab. All but one has a failure of the eMMC flash drive used on the Tegra module. This is what holds the Linux operating system the CID (Center Information Display) uses for display functions on the 17" screen. The MCU also contains some other stuff, one is the gateway which is a separate computer (doesn't run Linux or depend on the eMMC flash). The gateway is critical to making the car drive, but the CID is not. Your car will usually still continue to drive with a black screen.
The reason the eMMC is failing is because they use it for continuous logging. Because it's unlike a normal hard drive, it has a limit on how many times it can be written to, and the vast logging data quickly pushes this over the limit. These Linux log files are not needed for functioning of the car, and in fact on all salvage cars I support, one of the first things I do is disable it. The car logging functions possibly needed for service diagnosis are unaffected, as these are logged onto a 4G SD card that happens to also be easily replaceable.
Lately Tesla has toned down the logging somewhat, but it's still way more than I would consider with eMMC flash.
The eMMC flash chip is soldered in and not easily replaceable, but I'm working on a repair procedure for this. It's cost is under 10 dollars even in low quantity, so the bulk of the repair cost is going to be the labor to remove (and reinstall) the MCU from the car, which takes about an hour, and the more extensive and highly specialized work to remove the bad eMMC and install a new one. Then the data must be recovered from the old one and the operating system recreated on the new one. When the eMMC dies, there is usually some corruption so sometimes this can take awhile, or I'll just start "fresh" and the car will be all reset to factory conditions. Not easy, but I expect this will cost a small fraction of what Tesla is charging and I will also be able to offer a much better warranty.
Sadly, unless Tesla takes action now, probably all cars are going to succumb to this at some point.
I can't say how Tesla fixes these when the "refurb" them, but likely they just install a new Tegra module and toss the old one, as the rework like I'll be doing is difficult and specialized. I would replace the module too, except Tesla will not sell them.
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Death of a center screen / touch screen after warranty
- Thread starter measton
- Start date
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- Model S User Interface
Did you end up getting the 17" LCD?
What I'd be pissed about is if I had to pay for both the Center console computer plus the LCD. Those are separate components so why did you have to pay for both?
It's likely that there is nothing wrong with the LCD itself.
What I'd be pissed about is if I had to pay for both the Center console computer plus the LCD. Those are separate components so why did you have to pay for both?
It's likely that there is nothing wrong with the LCD itself.
I was able to drive, but I was not able to charge the car when I got home.
Seems like one might want to move the flash drive to an external location so that it could easily be swapped out.
My problem happened when I was doing a soft reset using the two scroll buttons on the steering wheel. I read a couple other accounts that sounded like this is when they had a problem as well. Given that Tesla referred to it as a short. I wondered if the reset signal might be a higher voltage signal that was causing a short somewhere. Your description suggests that this could happen at anytime as the flash drive is constantly getting used.
What are you doing to disable the logging? I have a rebuilt module installed now, so I would like to do one of two things.
1. If the problem is as you say constant use I'd like to figure a way to reduce the wear and tear on the unit and find out if Tesla's fix in rebuilding it is a band aid that will go out again in 4 years or a re engineering of the unit so that it won't fail as quickly.
2. If the problem was due to a higher voltage during reset procedure (that triggers a short in some but not all units) then I might like to recreate these conditions repeatedly over the next several months to see if I can induce a failure while it was still under warranty or prove that I had a durable unit.
Your work sound encouraging as long as Tesla doesn't prevent people from using this the way Apple tries to limit repairs by outsiders. They really have no argument if the CID plays no role in driving the car. How many cars have you salvaged so far? I assume you are located in California.
Seems like one might want to move the flash drive to an external location so that it could easily be swapped out.
My problem happened when I was doing a soft reset using the two scroll buttons on the steering wheel. I read a couple other accounts that sounded like this is when they had a problem as well. Given that Tesla referred to it as a short. I wondered if the reset signal might be a higher voltage signal that was causing a short somewhere. Your description suggests that this could happen at anytime as the flash drive is constantly getting used.
What are you doing to disable the logging? I have a rebuilt module installed now, so I would like to do one of two things.
1. If the problem is as you say constant use I'd like to figure a way to reduce the wear and tear on the unit and find out if Tesla's fix in rebuilding it is a band aid that will go out again in 4 years or a re engineering of the unit so that it won't fail as quickly.
2. If the problem was due to a higher voltage during reset procedure (that triggers a short in some but not all units) then I might like to recreate these conditions repeatedly over the next several months to see if I can induce a failure while it was still under warranty or prove that I had a durable unit.
Your work sound encouraging as long as Tesla doesn't prevent people from using this the way Apple tries to limit repairs by outsiders. They really have no argument if the CID plays no role in driving the car. How many cars have you salvaged so far? I assume you are located in California.
As ingineer suggests it's likely that < 5 % of the entire unit is bad. They replace one module or flash drive and give the rest back to you.
FlatSix911
Porsche 918 Hybrid
For probably $100 more you can hook up that 17" screen to your computer.
That would be one expensive monitor. Or you could ship it to ingineer.
The aspect I'd be pissed at is not the cost, or replacing the entire thing (there is no way service people can determine the exact failure point), but that it seems like this is a known issue. Where they know they have a problem, and not only charged you for it but they also tried to double dip (in getting the hardware back so they could turn around and fix the root cause).
So I think you have a right to be angry.
Sometimes I joke that the Tesla is both the most sustainable car in the world, but also the least sustainable car in the world.
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A huge reason I wont take any car, especially a car of this cost and complexity, out of warranty. Just not worth these type of issues... Should NOT have to be this way, but historically that's what I've personally learned.
Unfortunately even some Extended warranties are worthless
NeverFollow
Active Member
I had a similar problem recently with my Apple 2011 MacBook Pro 17" laptop when my screen went black.
I never purchased any additional warranty and had only the default 3 months warranty when I bough my laptop new in 2011.
However, my local Apple store told me that they replaced the full mother board to fix the video problem and they also
put a new 1TB disk drive and gave me back the previous 750GB disk that I use now as external backup.
I didn't have to pay a dime for anything.
I wish my ICE car's mechanics were that pleasant instead of overcharging customers and replacing not need parts.
I never purchased any additional warranty and had only the default 3 months warranty when I bough my laptop new in 2011.
However, my local Apple store told me that they replaced the full mother board to fix the video problem and they also
put a new 1TB disk drive and gave me back the previous 750GB disk that I use now as external backup.
I didn't have to pay a dime for anything.
I wish my ICE car's mechanics were that pleasant instead of overcharging customers and replacing not need parts.
But, there is a reason you didn't have to pay for anything.
The lawsuit
Apple sued over MacBook Pro GPU failures
And, the admission
Apple admits to MacBook Pro GPU design flaw
You didn't have to pay a dime because of all that.
Dborn
Confirmed
FlatSix911
Porsche 918 Hybrid
I think that if you look in the wiki for the history of changes the MCU was replaced once before but I am not certain. I thought there was a resolution upgrade a year or so ago.
Electric Joe
Member
This is really worrisome. My center screen has been failing to power on intermittently lately, and now has been off for almost a week. Obviously this is a big problem as I can't even turn on the blower to defrost the windshield. My car is covered by the CPO extended warranty but won't be for much longer and I really can't afford a $5000 repair bill if this happens again. I was reading this post hoping to see something encouraging like "Tesla said this is a known problem and will cover it out of warranty." But nope.
If the display is bad now and still under warranty, why not report it to Tesla now and get it fixed?
The comments about purchasing the ESA, or not keeping a MS once it's out of warranty is very troublesome to me, and doesn't really address the cost of long term ownership.
My MS was delivered the end of Sept, 2014, and I did purchase the ESA, I'm now coming up on 27 months of ownership, and I have more than 89,000 miles on it. The 100k expiration will happen years before the 8 year time period.
I bought this car new,and expect luxury car parts to be expensive, but the costs mentioned about this failed MCU are quite significant when contrasted with Tesla's statement about non-profit generating. I would seriously consider buying a 90 or 100 kW pack, but $20,00 (or more) means I'm not going to turn in my old one. Tesla states that they are not doing service as a profit center, but if they are selling me a 90 kW pack for $20k and want the old one, then they are not selling me one, but are selling me one with a rather steep core fee. It is not logical that a 90 kW pack would be $20k along with a core fee approaching that. If my 85 pack would suffer an complete failure rather than a degradation in range, then Tesla should honor their 8 yr unlimited warranty, and replace it. However, if it degrades below what I want, then let me buy a bigger pack, keep mine, and pay a reasonable price for the new pack.
It's not unreasonable that my used 85 pack could still be appealing to a lesser kw MS owner. I own it, after all. I'm thinking of going to buy a low mileage salvage 85 or 90, as I approach the end of my ESA.
BTW, why should I have to buy a new MS, when the warranty expires, since they should last a long time. However, a failure in the Center Display does prevent the majority of 'switch' functions to operate. AC, Blower, door locks, lights, plano roof, etc.
I expect the profit to be gained by repairing failed MCU's will become a good secondary business model. I currently perform a similar function in electronic repair and upgrades to an electric vehicle made by Ford in 2002.
My MS was delivered the end of Sept, 2014, and I did purchase the ESA, I'm now coming up on 27 months of ownership, and I have more than 89,000 miles on it. The 100k expiration will happen years before the 8 year time period.
I bought this car new,and expect luxury car parts to be expensive, but the costs mentioned about this failed MCU are quite significant when contrasted with Tesla's statement about non-profit generating. I would seriously consider buying a 90 or 100 kW pack, but $20,00 (or more) means I'm not going to turn in my old one. Tesla states that they are not doing service as a profit center, but if they are selling me a 90 kW pack for $20k and want the old one, then they are not selling me one, but are selling me one with a rather steep core fee. It is not logical that a 90 kW pack would be $20k along with a core fee approaching that. If my 85 pack would suffer an complete failure rather than a degradation in range, then Tesla should honor their 8 yr unlimited warranty, and replace it. However, if it degrades below what I want, then let me buy a bigger pack, keep mine, and pay a reasonable price for the new pack.
It's not unreasonable that my used 85 pack could still be appealing to a lesser kw MS owner. I own it, after all. I'm thinking of going to buy a low mileage salvage 85 or 90, as I approach the end of my ESA.
BTW, why should I have to buy a new MS, when the warranty expires, since they should last a long time. However, a failure in the Center Display does prevent the majority of 'switch' functions to operate. AC, Blower, door locks, lights, plano roof, etc.
I expect the profit to be gained by repairing failed MCU's will become a good secondary business model. I currently perform a similar function in electronic repair and upgrades to an electric vehicle made by Ford in 2002.
davidc18
Active Member
The theory that these car will be less expensive to maintain has proven to be false, which is very sad. It was one of the core reasons we bought into the "Tesla" story.
