mknox
Well-Known Member
I haven't done a full range charge on 5.9 yet but have also noticed that my numbers for 70, 80 and 90% seem higher than before.
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I haven't done a full range charge on 5.9 yet but have also noticed that my numbers for 70, 80 and 90% seem higher than before.
New Method to Assess Degradation
Apologies if this has been posted before in this massive thread. I have a rather simple idea that we can use to gauge the true capacity of our pack. I noticed while reviewing REST logs that my car gains charge at 10% SOC/hr. I also know that I charge at 240 V, 40 amps = 9.6 kW using my UMC. Assuming 88% efficiency, this works out to 8.45 kW added to my pack in 1 hr, which also tells me that 0.1(total capacity) = 8.45 kW. Therefore, total capacity = 84.5 kW.
I figure that a pack that has lost 50% capacity would gain 20% SOC/hr for the same charge rate, and so on and so forth.
Does this logic hold water?
Apologies if this has been posted before in this massive thread. I have a rather simple idea that we can use to gauge the true capacity of our pack. I noticed while reviewing REST logs that my car gains charge at 10% SOC/hr. I also know that I charge at 240 V, 40 amps = 9.6 kW using my UMC. Assuming 88% efficiency, this works out to 8.45 kW added to my pack in 1 hr, which also tells me that 0.1(total capacity) = 8.45 kW. Therefore, total capacity = 84.5 kW.
I figure that a pack that has lost 50% capacity would gain 20% SOC/hr for the same charge rate, and so on and so forth.
Does this logic hold water?
dennis
Model S Plaid
I upgraded to 5.9 this week. Range charge went from 245 last time on 5.8 to 253 on 5.9. 'A' battery, 12,500 miles in 17 months, usually charge to 80%.
Any chance you have the Ideal miles numbers for the full charge 5.8 to 5.9 change over also?
dennis
Model S Plaid
282 on 5.8. I will check Ideal on 5.9 next time I do a full charge.
I did a comparison between ideal and rated at 225 rated and the ratio was almost the same as 300/265. Extrapolating from that ratio my 253 rated on 5.9 equates to 286 ideal.
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Just another data point: on 5.9 my first and only range charge yielded 246 rated miles. On 5.8 I was getting around 250. My rated miles on 5.9 at lower charge levels, however, are higher than they were on 5.8. Back when this thread first began I was concerned about battery degradation as my rated miles at various charge levels were decreasing steadily from month to month. Now I feel confident that those decreases were due to the different firmware versions and my typically charging only to 70-80%. Since November 2013 my max charge rated miles has leveled off and has been consistently between 246-251 on 5.8. I'm no longer concerned about battery degradation. I range charge maybe once a month at most. My overall W/mi is 298 and I have 20,000 miles on a B pack.
No, I would actually say 253 for his A car before 5.9 would be very good, I'm about 10 below that. But, on my car the rated range with 5.9 jumped because they changed the unit size for rated range, at the same time my ideal miles has remained the same as before the update. (Even with 5.9, I'm down from ~318 Ideal miles to ~281 miles). I'm looking for other cars to confirm this.
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Yes, the basic idea is very sound. The only hiccup to this is how Tesla is doing their SOC. It is not perfectly linear, so for example the delta energy from 10-20% is not the same as 90-100%, which makes these calculations without all of Tesla's BMS data difficult.
Peter
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Yes, the basic idea is very sound. The only hiccup to this is how Tesla is doing their SOC. It is not perfectly linear, so for example the delta energy from 10-20% is not the same as 90-100%, which makes these calculations without all of Tesla's BMS data difficult.
Peter
InTheShadows
Active Member
10,000 mile data point.
Range charged to 266.2 rated miles.
SW v5.9 build .94
D battery pack
We have had the car 5 months. Almost all driving was done in sub freezing temps. Maybe 500 miles at temps above 70 and most of those miles were loaded down with 6 passengers and luggage.
We are extremely pleased with our car.
Range charged to 266.2 rated miles.
SW v5.9 build .94
D battery pack
We have had the car 5 months. Almost all driving was done in sub freezing temps. Maybe 500 miles at temps above 70 and most of those miles were loaded down with 6 passengers and luggage.
We are extremely pleased with our car.
29k mile 16+ months. Range charge on 5.9 was 262mi, drove ~3 miles before it dropped to 261.
Drive 161 miles and had 100 miles rated range left (291 Wh/mi avg.).
Drive 161 miles and had 100 miles rated range left (291 Wh/mi avg.).
Just did another 2,000 mile round trip. Supercharged 6 times (usually to 230 miles or so) and range charged at 30A twice. The last range charge was to 250 miles. I have an 'A' battery with 17,000 miles. 12 months old. My range charge has decreased from 268 on delivery to 254 last month to 250 with 5.9. I've range charged probably 30 times in the past 12 months.
NigelM
Recovering Member
Mod Note: we have lots of discussions on A packs vs B packs so the latest conversation got moved to Older-Teslas-limited-to-90kW-Supercharging
Just posted this on a different thread:
9,000 mi, 7 months, P85+
263 Rated, 308 Ideal (Max Charge)
5.9
Range mode on
Always plugged in to HPWC, 90% charge routinely, about a dozen max charges, occasional Supercharger use.
Rated range on your car - Page 5
9,000 mi, 7 months, P85+
263 Rated, 308 Ideal (Max Charge)
5.9
Range mode on
Always plugged in to HPWC, 90% charge routinely, about a dozen max charges, occasional Supercharger use.
Rated range on your car - Page 5
Cottonwood
Roadster#433, Model S#S37
19,000 miles, P85, sig
19 months
5.9
258 rated miles. Got 265 long, long ago, loss of 2.6% if you believe that carries across so many versions.
Normally charge to 80% since had the choice. Many (~100) 100% charges for trips, but never left there for more than a couple of hours. Taken to 0, three times, below 20 several times, but charged almost immediately.
Correction:
Rethought the number of 100% charges. It's more like 20-25. Sorry.
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Todd Burch
14-Year Member
Evan,
I find your numbers particularly interesting, because you and I have almost the same mileage (I have 28,000 miles), both have A packs, both have S85s, our cars are almost the same age (mine is 16 months), and we live at similar latitudes (summer heat, winter cold). Yet my range charge is in the low to mid 250s. Since our similar cars eliminate a lot of variables, your answers might give useful information that the "apparent" degredation I have compared to you is partially due to pack imbalance or just algorithmic reasons, since our car's characteristics are very similar.
Can you please share your typical charging habits? I'd like to see your answers to these questions, and I'll give my answers as well:
-What % SOC do you usually charge to when you leave for work? Usually 80%, when it started being possible via firmware.
-How do you typically charge? NEMA 14-50 @ 40 A.
-How far do you drive one-way to work? 35-40 miles
-What does your range sit at most of the day while you're at work? About 150-160 miles rated (Around 60% SOC)
-What %SOC does your car sit at at the end of the day until you recharge? About 40%ish (Around 100-130 miles rated)
-How many range charges per year do you do? About 4.
-How many lifetime supercharges on your pack? About 10.
-How aggressive a driver are you? I usually drive fairly benignly (About 287 Wh/mi lifetime average now), but punch it from time to time.
Do you still have your original pack, Cottonwood?
@efusco, @Todd Burch - FWIW, also have an A pack at 27 K miles, 5.8 range charge = 245 miles. But, I live in a considerably warmer year round climate.
Cottonwood
Roadster#433, Model S#S37
mknox
Well-Known Member
I'm on v5.9 (1.51.94) and charged to 90% yesterday. I happened to be at the car when the charge cycle completed. I got 228 Rated Miles. My car has about 23,000 miles and an "A" battery pack.
Getting 228/231 on 90% charge (was 220/221) v5.9(1.51.94) "A" battery original, 1 year 1 day old, 25,500 miles. Many, many range charges - trips Monterey to Vallejo and Oakland area at least 1 to 2 times per week.
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