That last one would get worn out here.This showed up in my FB feed--thought it might be apropos here to lighten things up a bit. Hey mods, maybe get some new buttons for the site?
View attachment 248674
-
Want to remove ads? Register an account and login to see fewer ads, and become a Supporting Member to remove almost all ads.
Degradation of the Community...
- Thread starter jeffro01
- Start date
-
- Tags
- Site Feedback
I've somehow never seen you posting on environmental news, or powerwalls, or ...well anything outside of cars, you have lots of other cars? Did you join the BMW site and post 5k posts about what a crappy company and product it is? Just curious...Any other forums? Hmmm
I appreciate the note from @bcsteeve, and yes it was a bit unnecesary, but @JRP3 and I go back long enough that I can take it. Maybe I deserve some of it.
I actually do admit I am negative about many things. Tesla the product is just not one of them, in many ways. The company, the way some things have been handled, yes. OTOH, the drivetrain (outside of some P model limiting ludicrosity) for example is superb, world-changing. And I think Model 3 will succeed, despite personal opinions on its shortcomings.
I do think a lot of us misunderstand each other in the process, though. That's the real shame part. I would like to get along with a lot more people that I do (and I would hope to think others feel similarly about some forum "opponents"), genuinely - however, I would like to do that without sacrificing the ability to debate, at times very hard, tough topics for maximum informational value at the end.
Some people I genuinely like a lot are at times polar opposites of my views and also, IMO, at times I feel mistaken in their information, beliefs and presentation thereof. That is the hard part, how to debate the latter, without changing the former... Often something ends up being taken personally, even when sincerely there is no intention of it being personal. Text is a very difficult medium, no less.
Because when we do debate and discuss the hard parts successfully, many times it also turns out that I was wrong. And that's when I learn too. But most importantly the process, no matter who is right, this peer-review so to speak, filters out the best information we can get. Taking nobody at face value, sufficiently doubting everyone and everything, that may be less good for egos, but great for information. That's what I've been looking for ever since I came here and have found this idea conflicting with many different interests.
I wouldn't prefer a culture where some take offense at being disagreed with or challenged - and yet that's what is happening often times, unfortunately. Some people don't take it well when they or their info is challenged and assume it is personal and basically check out. If only they'd participate in that hashing of the information, they might well be right, but the other party never gets the chance to learn that...
The other alternative that I know is simply to give up on those tough topics and let them - and whatever misinformation and misunderstanding is, on either side - be. Mind you, I'm not saying we need to seek mutual agreement, I am merely talking of mutual understanding and how often that is not even reached before someone gets offended and stops or tangents accordingly.
I'd say giving up is and would be a shame too, though even I do that a lot these days. I'd prefer if we all could just "hack the info" without feeling personal about it, or without fearing the negative either, when it comes to that. But no matter what you may think, even I am conscious of the fact that many do take things personally.
That's IMO where specialist forums are best, hacking the info. But I admit it is not nice for those who come here merely to hang out socially and casually converse topics. That's the equation that I'd like to solve in a manner that suits everyone, because I understand not everyone wants the same things out of forums such as these.
I think the Autonomous Vehicles sub-forum, for instance, is great, because it is populated by many people who are into the same thing. It makes it easier for everyone. But not every sub-forum will be so homogenuous.
You don't actually seem to debate anything. Just spew negative feedback. If you want to debate...discuss whether or not the germans stand a chance in hell of making it through the move of cars to shared mobile computer driven devices. Discuss the failure of all the other companies to have any ..and I mean any..strategic vision re mobility. Tesla is crushing them. That's why I suspect you are paid very well to ding the things Tesla is actually doing the best. Mobile technology is a key/core component of tesla vision and no one other than Uber can say the same. Frankly I'm shocked anyone pays any attention when you ding the mobile services features (honestly I did not even know many of the features even existed) on a company that is 6 months from enabling ride sharing via mobile devices. Like someone complaining about the color of their wing and extolling the features of others buggy whip when the airplane you are dinging is taxing on the runway. Discuss how Tesla could go faster, give insight into...well anything. Otherwise, you fall right into the PR Troll A1. Because I've never seen you actually debate anything that wasn't feature/quality trashing.
Tesla is on the verge of crushing the world of Automotive as we know it. It is going to be an amazing thing to watch. Maybe disastrous for Stuggart and Detroit, we'll see. In the meantime they make a great car that everyone I know who has one would buy another and that is backed up by hard numbers (was it you who said dont' believe the numbers/data? implying they should trust someone with 4k negative posts rather than professional experts).
Sawyer8888
Member
and with that I'm off this thread. It's a great community, right now the energy area is of more interest to me personally but the Automotive area of Tesla is about to execute on changing the world. Honestly it is going to be amazing to watch. And no ding related to any product ...feature is going to have any impact on that transition.
A car with no dashboard, few options, no dealer network....is going to absolutely shake the automotive world to its knees.
A car with no dashboard, few options, no dealer network....is going to absolutely shake the automotive world to its knees.
![script>](http://<blockquote class="imgur-embed-pub" lang="en" data-id="b2QKacQ"><a href="//imgur.com/b2QKacQ">Hadouken</a></blockquote><script async src="//s.imgur.com/min/embed.js" charset="utf-8"></script>)
Oh, I freely admit I am here exactly for the car. And yes, certainly I have frequented other car forums in my time with similar passion - whatever has been timely at the time. The average car forum has much more people like me, because they don't have such an investor or environmentalist mission cadre as TMC does. I admit it is sometimes hard to reconcile these groups of people. There are a lot of people on TMC who do not own Tesla cars and that's a difference between TMC and many other automotive forums.
You actually make my point, for me. Thank you for that. I definitely recognize that some of the "community degrading" trouble here is because of the diversity of the crowd. People have vastly different interests and motivations for being here, more so than on an average car forum. I guess there is richness is that diversity too, but it also means getting along is a bit more difficult. But it is a worthy challenge of course to tackle, hence something I've tried to discuss above on my part...
Here are some of my posts about cars, for anyone who cares:
"Car market literally down to 2 cars today"
Model X mule(s) show signs of nVidia Tegra X1 Drive PX platform - no rear mirror!
Model X mules show signs of a new spoiler?
Model X - What do we (think we) know, June 2015 summary [this is basically a summary of dozens of car threads I've started here]
My Story: From Model S to Model X Signature reservation, to...?
Trying out wrong VIN Tesla mats and third-party Model S goodies on Model X
Evolution of the Model X 5-seater trunk
Speculation: Model X five seater is missing a panel to hide seat bottoms?
AP2.0 Cameras: Capabilities and Limitations? [these last three are from other people's threads, just some of my contribs]
AP2.0 Cameras: Capabilities and Limitations?
AP2.0 Cameras: Capabilities and Limitations?
I hope you understand that not everyone is interested in the same debate, though. That one you mention is a perfectly worthy debate, I might even be pretty much on your side there, but I am not really interested personally in that. If I were to take part in that debate, my wish would be that a similar standard of diligent and passionate debate would be allowed and would happen there as I've described in this thread. That topic just doesn't stir my passion so much, so I take part in threads where things that I'm interested are happening. It seems only natural to me. I don't go around telling anyone else what threads or debates they should take.
I'm here as a car guy (not in the petrolhead sense, I don't change my own oil), I'm not ashamed of that. I like car products. That's where my interests are and that brought me to Tesla in 2014.
I have no affiliations to the automotive world nor do I get paid for anything here. I am a Tesla owner two times over with a long history into (mostly) German premiums as a car-buying private customer, nothing more. I have never owned directly or indirectly any automotive shares. If I were to own any, I guess I would probably go TSLA long.
Together with the monetary and PR Troll A1 implications, which are of course completely false and IMO a trap too many TMC goers have fallen into over the years (great sources of info have been dismissed as trolls or shorts, like Eds, who had great info on Model X delays)... this is the part of your message that I struggle with the most.
You believe Tesla is 6 months from enabling ride sharing via mobile devices? Well, I can respect a clear and unambiguous prediction as much as the next guy. I must say it seems quite unbelieavable to me, though, seeing how AP2 rides. Or perhaps you mean ride-sharing in some manually driven sense, which could happen sooner of course.
Doesn't mean they don't exist. Most of my posts on this forum are actually feature/information seeking in nature from the Model X pre-launch era. Though naturally now that I have my Model X, and am not in the immediate process of buying a new Tesla, I have had less interest in that.
I believe Tesla will succeed with Model 3 and I believe they have already altered the course of automotive history with their drivetrain and single-minded passion. I'm not sure they will crush the world as is, but they IMO will force a change that will overwhelm some existing players for sure, and help the rise of several new, Tesla included.
Probably not, or at least not meant that simply put, but feel free to clarify so I know what you refer to. I'd be happy to comment.
If this is a reference to me, most of my posts are actually me following and speculating on Model X progress pre-launch. Interestingly some people didn't like that either, it was seen as negative on Tesla to try and uncover future secrets.
just put the person on your ignore list
I think it can reasonably be considered an ad hominem attack, depending on context. That is against the Terms and Rules.
If you feel that you or someone else is attacked, use the report button and state that as the case. The local mod can read the context and try to reach an appropriate action.
FWIW, disrupting the normal course of dialogue is also a violation of the Terms and Rules, and I think some of what has been discussed in this thread talks about thread disruption or monopolization. I think those also can be reported as violations and reasonably moved away dependent on context.
In my experience, when I use it the report button is worthless.
At any rate, calling someone a paid shill crosses the line from ad hominem to defamation.
I wasn't trying to compile a complete list of ToS transgressions!
⚡️ELECTROMAN⚡️
Village Idiot
I would guess oktane and AmpedRealtor have other accounts, or they will just make a new one. They probably aren't going to go away that easily.
Here's a new angle at this, maybe this would help work out this difference between people:
Why is it so aggravating to face opposing views? This whole thread seems to be about disliking the reality that some have negative views.
I get it that some say it is the repetition, but that at the same time people don't mind repetition of things they find positive, nor do unresolved issues realistically go away after one mention.
We are all the people here that we are at this moment in time, just like in any social setting. Some will be more pro something and against another thing and that's quite normal.
Some of the repetition comes simply when new people enter conversations and the same topics are repeated because they weren't around for the first one. I find this quite normal in a forum such as this.
I'm all ears for thoughts. Maybe we could figure something out to help the different view points.
Why is it so aggravating to face opposing views? This whole thread seems to be about disliking the reality that some have negative views.
I get it that some say it is the repetition, but that at the same time people don't mind repetition of things they find positive, nor do unresolved issues realistically go away after one mention.
We are all the people here that we are at this moment in time, just like in any social setting. Some will be more pro something and against another thing and that's quite normal.
Some of the repetition comes simply when new people enter conversations and the same topics are repeated because they weren't around for the first one. I find this quite normal in a forum such as this.
I'm all ears for thoughts. Maybe we could figure something out to help the different view points.
Suggesting that there is some kind of equivalence between positive and negative sentiment is entirely misleading.
There is a reason that we humans do not like to hang around people who are constantly negative. Those people are generally left out of social circles, partly because it is depressing to be around them. On the other hand, people who consistently say positive things are not shunned in the same way. This does not mean that those who are consistently positive cannot have valid criticisms of things that we like, or even completely opposing view points. It just means that persistent negativity is a sign of an unhealthy person.
Speaking for myself, I have severed a number of relationships in my life due to persistent negativity. I get one short window on this earth, and I'm not going to waste it on someone who doesn't know how to smile.
There is a reason that we humans do not like to hang around people who are constantly negative. Those people are generally left out of social circles, partly because it is depressing to be around them. On the other hand, people who consistently say positive things are not shunned in the same way. This does not mean that those who are consistently positive cannot have valid criticisms of things that we like, or even completely opposing view points. It just means that persistent negativity is a sign of an unhealthy person.
Speaking for myself, I have severed a number of relationships in my life due to persistent negativity. I get one short window on this earth, and I'm not going to waste it on someone who doesn't know how to smile.
Fair enough - and this is a helpful post. Thank you for it.
There is another way of looking at it, though. That "negativity" is seen as a positive by those who share similar sentiments. For them only seeing people being "happy happy joy joy" about the stuff they are "negative" about, can IMO be equally jarring - perhaps even more jarring, because there is the sentiment of your concern or feeling sort of being denied by that group...
So, not simple IMO. Some middle ground would seem like the best compromise.
Merrill
Merrill
Me too, over the years we have eliminated the people in our lives that are depressingly negative. That does not mean that we do not listen to those view points it just means if you never find something positive to talk about you have a big problem.
So negative things are positive to negative people?Fair enough - and this is a helpful post. Thank you for it.
There is another way of looking at it, though. That "negativity" is seen as a positive by those who share similar sentiments. For them only seeing people being "happy happy joy joy" about the stuff they are "negative" about, can IMO be equally jarring - perhaps even more jarring, because there is the sentiment of your concern or feeling sort of being denied by that group...
So, not simple IMO. Some middle ground would seem like the best compromise.
Complaining is negativity, even if it's valid, true, and what you want to hear.
Positive things are actions to address the issue. You like to suggest that posting here is an action to address the problem. Maybe it is, but it is the absolute minimal form. And posting repeatedly the same negative comments over and over in different threads doesn't appear to have been effective in that regard.
Read the Roadster forum, or early Model S threads. People had problems and worked positively to a resolution. They voiced their distaste for the issue but also did something to solve it.
Similar threads
