Degradation of the Community...

[AnxietyRanger]

To be clear - since I was mentioned by @Canuck - I don't feel punished by @wk057 even though somewhere along the way we crossed paths the wrong way too. I do worship his achievements, though, they're pretty great. Who objectively wouldn't.

I feel he is trying to do what makes him happy and that's a conflicting thing at times in Internet communities. Sometimes the suckiest thing is realizing you just can't reach everyone, even with the best of intents.

Sometimes it is you, sometimes it is the other guy, but it still sucks anyway. Retreating in the face of that seems like a fairly natural reaction. I can see the same in many of us who've been here for years.

There's certainly some damage there in everyone of us, whether or not we admit it. I don't know about you, but I think for many of us, it does make some difference. I know I am not indifferent to what goes on here.

The few sentimental sentiments I posted a few pages back were genuine feelings of appreciation. Of course things turned sour very quickly after that through several obvious misunderstandings. I'm realistic enough to know, many probably disregarded such comments as not genuine. But they were genuine. I also know that some I will never reach.

@wk057 seems to be going through similar conflicts, IMO. I'm not sure he intends to punish anyone, more wants to not punish himself...

Text is hard.

 

[mblakele]

Make your point and move on

We could do worse than to make this a house rule, and enforce it. Repetition adds nothing to the conversation.

 

[AB4EJ]

We could do worse than to make this a house rule, and enforce it. Repetition adds nothing to the conversation.

I agree. I am the first to admit I sometimes post stupid stuff (as most of us do), and I hope that people will take it in stride, (as most of us do), and think, OK, maybe the next post will be useful and/or better than the last one.

 

[Electroman]

Its not just th volume of posts, but even the length of each post. I am afraid I will get carpel tunnel just swiping down my iPhone

-

 

[tomas]

Its not just th volume of posts, but even the length of each post. I am afraid I will get carpel tunnel just swiping down my iPhone

-

Ok I think message has been sent.

 

[T34ME]

This thread has become monotonous, contentious, and repetitive. I would have hoped this thread would have been moderated more actively. Therefore I am putting this thread on my personal 'ignore' list. Easy-peasy.

 

[Canuck]

This thread has become monotonous, contentious, and repetitive. I would have hoped this thread would have been moderated more actively. Therefore I am putting this thread on my personal 'ignore' list. Easy-peasy.

Thanks for telling us...

 

[buttershrimp]

<iframe src="Shift GIFs - Find & Share on GIPHY" width="480" height="360" frameBorder="0" class="giphy-embed" allowFullScreen></iframe><p><a href="Shift GIFs - Find & Share on GIPHY">via GIPHY</a></p>

 

[buttershrimp]

<iframe src="Shift GIFs - Find & Share on GIPHY" width="480" height="360" frameBorder="0" class="giphy-embed" allowFullScreen></iframe><p><a href="Shift GIFs - Find & Share on GIPHY">via GIPHY</a></p>

Will someone please educate my degraded ass on how to embed gifs or images into my posts?... I fear I will lose critical arguments if someone has to click on a link of a monkey washing a cat.... rather than it being embedded directly into my post.

 

[wk057]

Wk - I think more or less everyone would appreciate you continuing to share on this forum your findings and information. I agree threads should stay on topic and, even more importantly, there should be a sort of zero tolerance for those passive aggressive posts which are aimed less at the opinion than at the person behind the opinion. There are enough forums on the internet for that type of people to live their (rather strange) life; they shouldn't be allowed to be doing that on TMC.

I'm not sure self-moderation works in general (it certainly would work with a thread starter who wanted to keep things technical, matter-of-fact and objective) but there are some threads started by people seeking controversy for the pleasure of controversy, and more in general I think that may not work with thread starters who unlike you don't have the habit of moderating forums - it could be ten threads on the same subject with ten different colours to them, as I think bonnie was saying, if I understood her correctly.

I started a thread once with the (for me, and perhaps others) interesting question whether, while hopping between SuperChargers, one can count on the fact that the delta between typical range and actual consumption will remain linear and thus predictable (i.e. the car will not suddenly drop dead below you with 15km typical range left). First reply immediately derailed this innocent question into something like "you're an idiot and you know nothing about how to preserve battery life". And the rest of the thread was about battery life, 20%-80% charges, and other in se very interesting things which were unfortunately totally irrelevant as answers to my innocent question - plus some other "you're an irresponsible idiot" posts .

If you've been reading here you must have to agree that this was in the past and the pendulum has now swung the other way? Especially with AP2.0 problems, getting to people to buy with the lure of free supercharging expiring then changing that, slowed supercharging, etc., etc.?

I even find myself criticizing Tesla more than commending them lately -- just look at my past posts and you'll probably be surprised -- but in the end it comes down to baby/bathwater for me and that's the ultimate point I like to make, while waiting for competition to come online, and with not even one other automaker pulling a permit to date to build a fast charging network it looks like I'll be in a love/hate relationship with Tesla for a while, but that's like a lot of things in life, and I'm not so naive to think we won't have a lot to complain about with any other corporation that makes long range EV vehicles and has the immense pressure of increasing profits like we place on corporations today.

But let's assume there's a lot more of "Tesla can do no wrong" people here than you would like, why do you even care? I enjoy debating the "Tesla only does wrong" people, except when they derail threads and repeat the same things over and over, but my skin is thick and it rolls off. Plus, you had more rep points here than anyone except Bonnie so you certainly had tons of people here who agreed with you.

Because of the die-hard Tesla supporters? I find that odd. You get a ton of rep but the people who constantly defend Tesla get so under your skin you punish the rest of us (or maybe I'm not part of the "rest of us") but you punish them, and all your supporters, like @AnxietyRanger who bows in worship of you (but certainly doesn't speak for me):

I don't get your reasoning but I think you like to tell us you're punishing us without your presence here. I'd like you here but my life goes on and it makes absolutely no difference to me. All you have done is make the Tesla worshipers win by driving you off, and you punish your fans.

Hopefully, you can tell me the errors of my reasoning here.

On the large forum I moderate for that has the self-moderation feature, it actually does much more good than anything. Just seeing the "This thread is self-moderated" tag at the top of a thread is usually enough to drive trolls out of the thread. Very rarely does it cause any issues. And that forum is not purely technical. Lots of heated debates and active threads with thousands of posts spanning months. The self-moderation features works wonders. Sure, some people complain that their posts were deleted, or try to repeatedly post the same thing over and over forcing the thread starter to keep deleting it, in which case they get reported to the actual mods and are banned from the thread. Problem solved.

Here, I'd suggest that self-moderation be able to be enabled for vetted members in some way, perhaps the paid contributor status or something. I don't expect it to actually be implemented here, since it is something that tends to drive the noise away, which would drop post counts and such. Given TMC is a modest sized forum I'd have to bet that the ad-revenue generating noise makers are worth more to them than a useful feature to help squelch it.

There's also the fact that I actually still dislike the new forum design here quite a bit. It's improved a bit since the big changeover, but I still feel like a good bit was lost in the switch. The default layout is still pretty hideous, and I have to override some CSS style to make the site seem more usable for me as it is. Then I have to remember that others default to a squished 1/3rd screen worth of site that has massive avatars, no signatures visible, etc. Oh, and the rep from the old forum being completely lost seemed like a jab at the top contributors from the admins here. I also particularly liked the private comments aspect of the old forum's rep system.

Honestly, I don't feel like my lack of contribution here has a negative or positive impact on much of anyone. I still post things around elsewhere, and those who care know how to find them. Sometimes I'll mirror a post here afterwards. Sometimes not.

Overall, I don't spend a lot of time on TMC anymore. I usually just check my PMs and notifications occasionally, check what people are pinging me about, chime in if it seems helpful, etc. I'll end up here if someone links me to a thread here, but overall I've not been too interested in TMC lately.

I'm glad to hear people aren't taking Tesla's nonsense with AP2 and the forum members aren't trolling such complainants into oblivion. Tesla really dropped the ball with AP2. I tried AP2 again recently in an X with the latest update... and the AP1 I retrofitted onto my VIN 28k S is still superior IMO... which is very sad considering we're coming up on a year since AP2 release soon and it still can't even function as well as AP1 on the highway, let alone have anything "enhanced" beyond AP1's abilities. *shrugs*

Anyway, I don't particularly care whether people feel "punished" or rewarded or whatever by my presence here or lack thereof. If things change for the better here, then perhaps I'll give this forum some serious consideration in the future. For now, I'll just keep doing my thing as I have been.

 

[AnxietyRanger]

I think mine and e.g. @wk057's long posts illustrate the very different type of Internet users there are.

For example I've doing this since the newgroups thirty years ago when everyone was writing and quoting long. That was the way.

The iPhone generation with their TL;DR and Like button is different. (I don't mean a person's age but their personal Internet and writing culture history.)

Style clashes are rather unavoidable. Let's just try to get along.

 

[AnxietyRanger]

Anyway, I don't particularly care whether people feel "punished" or rewarded or whatever by my presence here or lack thereof. If things change for the better here, then perhaps I'll give this forum some serious consideration in the future. For now, I'll just keep doing my thing as I have been.

May I suggest you take a look at the TMC Autonomous Vehicles sub-forum?

It is a very classy place thanks to the likes of @verygreen and @lunitiks. They post even higher volumes and amounts of messages than I do (it is ten messages a minute at times), but unlike myself who doesn't know a point from a comma, they stick to it. It is the epitomy of a knowledge-based expert forum. Very unlike much of TMC elsewhere, perhaps Roadster section exempted.

Very classy place. Your input would be immensely welcome.

 

[oktane]

Hmm.. I wonder who that is?

I don't have the slightest idea what you guys are talking about…

Like it or not, you are all my friends!

 

[AnxietyRanger]

Like it or not, you are all my friends!

Hear, hear! Ditto.

 

[Shock-On-T]

We could do worse than to make this a house rule, and enforce it. Repetition adds nothing to the conversation.

Agreed, although there's a fine line between repetition and clarification.
Text is a frustratingly ambiguous medium, especially when one doesn't allow time for careful composition.

 

[AnxietyRanger]

Agreed, although there's a fine line between repetition and clarification.
Text is a frustratingly ambiguous medium, especially when one doesn't allow time for careful composition.

That was very well put. I will keep that thought in mind. Thank you.

I got a private message making the point that there is no need for repetition, people understand the first time. To drive the point home, the PM writer did not IMO understand me at all and blocked - and said so - the ability respond back. Fire and forget PM. So much for building understanding. But clearly that writer did not want to understand me, just enforce their own belief and message. That is one group of participants and that's reality.

But IMO the problem is not people understanding necessarily, it is sometimes the writer (like me) not writing clearly. So it isn't that I for example consider people lacking in understanding. I know people are smart. Sometimes I just write poorly and clarification is needed. Other times text is just hard and nobody is to blame.

I agree there is a line, and I will pitch in by doing my best to find it. Sometimes you just have to give up, when understanding can not be communicated (or the other side refuses to acknowledge clearly that it has). I am bad at giving up on that attempt, I admit that. I should give up more often.

 

[tomas]

On the large forum I moderate for that has the self-moderation feature, it actually does much more good than anything. Just seeing the "This thread is self-moderated" tag at the top of a thread is usually enough to drive trolls out of the thread. Very rarely does it cause any issues. And that forum is not purely technical. Lots of heated debates and active threads with thousands of posts spanning months. The self-moderation features works wonders. Sure, some people complain that their posts were deleted, or try to repeatedly post the same thing over and over forcing the thread starter to keep deleting it, in which case they get reported to the actual mods and are banned from the thread. Problem solved.

Here, I'd suggest that self-moderation be able to be enabled for vetted members in some way, perhaps the paid contributor status or something. I don't expect it to actually be implemented here, since it is something that tends to drive the noise away, which would drop post counts and such. Given TMC is a modest sized forum I'd have to bet that the ad-revenue generating noise makers are worth more to them than a useful feature to help squelch it.

There's also the fact that I actually still dislike the new forum design here quite a bit. It's improved a bit since the big changeover, but I still feel like a good bit was lost in the switch. The default layout is still pretty hideous, and I have to override some CSS style to make the site seem more usable for me as it is. Then I have to remember that others default to a squished 1/3rd screen worth of site that has massive avatars, no signatures visible, etc. Oh, and the rep from the old forum being completely lost seemed like a jab at the top contributors from the admins here. I also particularly liked the private comments aspect of the old forum's rep system.

Honestly, I don't feel like my lack of contribution here has a negative or positive impact on much of anyone. I still post things around elsewhere, and those who care know how to find them. Sometimes I'll mirror a post here afterwards. Sometimes not.

Overall, I don't spend a lot of time on TMC anymore. I usually just check my PMs and notifications occasionally, check what people are pinging me about, chime in if it seems helpful, etc. I'll end up here if someone links me to a thread here, but overall I've not been too interested in TMC lately.

I'm glad to hear people aren't taking Tesla's nonsense with AP2 and the forum members aren't trolling such complainants into oblivion. Tesla really dropped the ball with AP2. I tried AP2 again recently in an X with the latest update... and the AP1 I retrofitted onto my VIN 28k S is still superior IMO... which is very sad considering we're coming up on a year since AP2 release soon and it still can't even function as well as AP1 on the highway, let alone have anything "enhanced" beyond AP1's abilities. *shrugs*

Anyway, I don't particularly care whether people feel "punished" or rewarded or whatever by my presence here or lack thereof. If things change for the better here, then perhaps I'll give this forum some serious consideration in the future. For now, I'll just keep doing my thing as I have been.

I've also 3 times over the years suggested each member has a self-moderated thread. Can we start a movement?

 

[bro1999]

I've also 3 times over the years suggested each member has a self-moderated thread. Can we start a movement?

Sounds good. Just make it so the deleted posts still show up ("post deleted by ___") and with reason for deletion.

 

[tomas]

Sounds good. Just make it so the deleted posts still show up ("post deleted by ___") and with reason for deletion.

Why? If it is my self moderated thread, let me manage. If it sucks, nobody will follow. I'm just asking for one for each member.

 

[bro1999]

Why? If it is my self moderated thread, let me manage. If it sucks, nobody will follow. I'm just asking for one for each member.

Anyone should be able to know when a post got deleted for accountability. If 50% of a thread suddenly gets nuked without a trace, that's not cool.
And if such a self-moderation option was ever introduced, the options for moderating should simply be "delete" or "don't delete". Allowing editing of comments can open a new can of worms and headaches for the official admins.