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Delay in model X launch?
- Thread starter Eds
- Start date
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- Model X model x launch
Sigh. Eds never suggested a delay in Model X launch as in a delay of starting dates, but a materially significant delay in ramping up the volume. In fact, it was his/her point that Tesla would stick to the launch timeframe no matter what (allegedly to guard the share price).
It is true he/she said no Q3 customer deliveries. If all Tesla delivers in Q3 are Founders' Model X on the last day(s) of the quarter, I wouldn't call Eds too wrong on the Q3 prediction at all either. After all, those are not public deliveries. If they deliver Signatures in Q3, then Eds obviously was wrong on that point.
In any case, I don't expect Eds to be right on his/her estimate on how many Model X's are delivered in 2015 (less than 100). I do, however, think he/she had certain insider information behind the statements and opinions he/she presented. Dismissing Eds as some binary right or wrong source would be silly. Like anything and everything, there are (more than 50) shades of grey.
Requests to close unpleasant threads are getting really old. Embrace the diversity, people. Not everything has to be about EV mission rainbows, ponies, unicorns and magical mystery tour roadtrips. The rough and tough of the business is OK to talk too - in fact, it is a necessary element, in addition to the communal camaraderie which is obviously great as well.
If you are here for feelgood communal sharing only, just skip threads like these that dig into the dirt a little. Let us who are interested in the nitty gritty talk them through. We're not bothering you in the happy-happy-joy-joy threads or asking to close them - we may even post our own.
It is true he/she said no Q3 customer deliveries. If all Tesla delivers in Q3 are Founders' Model X on the last day(s) of the quarter, I wouldn't call Eds too wrong on the Q3 prediction at all either. After all, those are not public deliveries. If they deliver Signatures in Q3, then Eds obviously was wrong on that point.
In any case, I don't expect Eds to be right on his/her estimate on how many Model X's are delivered in 2015 (less than 100). I do, however, think he/she had certain insider information behind the statements and opinions he/she presented. Dismissing Eds as some binary right or wrong source would be silly. Like anything and everything, there are (more than 50) shades of grey.
Requests to close unpleasant threads are getting really old. Embrace the diversity, people. Not everything has to be about EV mission rainbows, ponies, unicorns and magical mystery tour roadtrips. The rough and tough of the business is OK to talk too - in fact, it is a necessary element, in addition to the communal camaraderie which is obviously great as well.
If you are here for feelgood communal sharing only, just skip threads like these that dig into the dirt a little. Let us who are interested in the nitty gritty talk them through. We're not bothering you in the happy-happy-joy-joy threads or asking to close them - we may even post our own.
bonnie
I play a nice person on twitter.
Now I know your reading comprehension is good enough that it was plain people were asking for a new thread to be started for discussion, now that production is ramping up. No one is trying to close an unpleasant thread or stop diversity or whatever. I'm not sure why you continue to beat the drum that categorizes most people here in a negative light. There are plenty of 'unpleasant topic' threads on the forum and no one is shutting those down either.
Again, in case you really did miss it: No one was suggesting to stop the conversation about ramping up. The suggestion was to start a new thread with current info, which has happened. Production ramp up discussion This thread was not closed, nothing has been stopped. But current conversation is going on over there.
As I said, requests to close unpleasant threads are getting really old. They are definitely not uncommon here and not restricted to this particular thread. We agree to disagree on the motivations, I'm sure.
I am glad - and agree - moderation rarely entertains them, although the sometimes manic editorializing of subjects and/or moving of posts to oblivion may of course have a similar effect at times.
bonnie
I play a nice person on twitter.
Perhaps these types of discussions are better held over at Site Feedback.
Current discussion of production ramp is over at Production ramp up discussion.
anticitizen13.7
Not posting at TMC after 9/17/2018
Not likely. The F.B.I. may now be involved: http://www.reuters.com/article/2015/09/03/us-tesla-motors-hacking-employee-idUSKCN0R32AS20150903
While it's unclear whether this person is the same as "Eds", the circumstances are suspicious, given that posts here were taken down at the request of Tesla's legal department, and given the fairly damaging allegations of the original post.
pvogel
Member
It's the fiduciary responsibility of any company to fire AND prosecute action against an employee who hacks internal systems (that alone is criminally prosecutable) even more so when they use the information so obtained to damage the reputation off the company or to manipulate the stock of the company
anticitizen13.7
Not posting at TMC after 9/17/2018
Given that there was some kind of hack and stolen information, I'm not surprised that law enforcement became involved. More details: http://www.pcworld.com/article/2980...r-hacking-former-managers-email-fbi-says.html
Do we know what kind of access? I mean illegal access is illegal access, but there's a big difference between ACTUALLY hacking and someone leaving their email logged in on your laptop or something.
The more I think about it, it seems that everything Elon is doing is to disguise what should be the headlines: Model X Supplier Woes Delays Vehicle. Something like only 27 signature owners are being asked to configure. The standard second row bench seats are not available. And I'm sure there are other things we don't know about that are in short supply. Meanwhile Tesla gets fawning press. Quite amazing, actually.
Krugerrand
Meow
Huh? Tesla gets plenty of 'non-fawning' press. But let's pretend they don't - name one company that doesn't try to put their 'best face forward' for the media/public. Or if you'd rather, name one company that airs their dirty laundry readily and happily.
scottf200
Well-Known Member
I'd back that decision up - and I run a pretty modern, inclusive, libertarian organization. The mission of Tesla is far more important than being soft on a damaged ex employee acting pathologically. Not to mention the fiduciary responsibility. I see no challenge to ethics in taking criminal charges - the justice system (flaws and all) is how we agree to determine if she was actually guilty and damages.
I'm not here for group hugs or rep, rather for brutally honest Tesla talk - but I so care about reactions and on that note thank you for the overwhelmingly positive one my profile here has recently received. It is much appreciated. This has to be said, lest I sound like negative on TMC all the time. 
And to continue on that vein, I actually agree Tesla was right to criminally prosecute in the case of Nima Kalbasi, if what we read has merit. And no, I don't think Nima Kalbasi sounds like Eds. Didn't people here identify Eds anyway at a subcontractor?
Spreading office gossip and your confidential knowledge is one thing. Heck, even whistleblowing on the government can be one thing depending on what you believe. But hacking into your co-workers emails at a company and putting the messages online? Prosecute all you want is fine by me.
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While I agree overall, I don't think the importance of a company's mission should have ANY bearing on our moral compass or the decisions we morally take. Quite the contrary, when we feel we are on or supporting a very important (to us) mission, we must be extra careful to not let the end justify our means.
I agree with prosecuting Kalbasi, I just don't think the mission of Tesla or its importance should have any bearing on that. Conicidentally, I think the importance of the EV mission should not have any bearing on how we treat Tesla on TMC either - only reality and morality.
And to continue on that vein, I actually agree Tesla was right to criminally prosecute in the case of Nima Kalbasi, if what we read has merit. And no, I don't think Nima Kalbasi sounds like Eds. Didn't people here identify Eds anyway at a subcontractor?
Spreading office gossip and your confidential knowledge is one thing. Heck, even whistleblowing on the government can be one thing depending on what you believe. But hacking into your co-workers emails at a company and putting the messages online? Prosecute all you want is fine by me.
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While I agree overall, I don't think the importance of a company's mission should have ANY bearing on our moral compass or the decisions we morally take. Quite the contrary, when we feel we are on or supporting a very important (to us) mission, we must be extra careful to not let the end justify our means.
I agree with prosecuting Kalbasi, I just don't think the mission of Tesla or its importance should have any bearing on that. Conicidentally, I think the importance of the EV mission should not have any bearing on how we treat Tesla on TMC either - only reality and morality.
The reason why I called for closing the thread and continuing the discussion on the potential ramp up curve, is that this thread has become a discussion on Eds' credibility (I don't care if he had insider information or was just trolling because in both cases his projections might turn out to be right or wrong for any other reason). The thread title is suggesting that we're discussing/speculating about a potential delay in the Model X launch. Since this topic is settled now and Eds is no longer around, plus there's not even his starting post available, there's little sense to continue a discussion/speculation on the ramp up here.
But, of course, that's just my opinion and my suggestion. Go ahead with repeating your statements on Eds and his statements (which have been deleted, so that there's no starting post to this thread, thus only a few of us can continue this discussion anyway), but for me there's no sense to refer to him and his first post as if he was a prophet or revelator. And then people took sides (for or against him) and now we're holding out here until October, November, December until he's proven right or wrong, and AR or opposition can claim their victory. Fine. Continue in that manner if this is what you're looking for. But again, keep in mind that for any other reason he probably was not aware of (and we all aren't), it could turn out that Tesla puts out only 100 Model X in 2015... or a smashing 7,000 cars, despite Eds' eventual insider information (or wild speculation) telling him otherwise. So either way, this discussion makes no sense to me. My last post in this thread.
EDIT: AR called for "brutally honest Tesla talk". Here you go.
But, of course, that's just my opinion and my suggestion. Go ahead with repeating your statements on Eds and his statements (which have been deleted, so that there's no starting post to this thread, thus only a few of us can continue this discussion anyway), but for me there's no sense to refer to him and his first post as if he was a prophet or revelator. And then people took sides (for or against him) and now we're holding out here until October, November, December until he's proven right or wrong, and AR or opposition can claim their victory. Fine. Continue in that manner if this is what you're looking for. But again, keep in mind that for any other reason he probably was not aware of (and we all aren't), it could turn out that Tesla puts out only 100 Model X in 2015... or a smashing 7,000 cars, despite Eds' eventual insider information (or wild speculation) telling him otherwise. So either way, this discussion makes no sense to me. My last post in this thread.
EDIT: AR called for "brutally honest Tesla talk". Here you go.
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I was precise in the use of the word ethics, which are subjective or relative to a chose frame of reference. I don't see an ethical problem in the prosecution, others may. (That was a bad comparison BTW- I do see moral problems in the prosecution of a government whistleblower, others don't, (possibly not very good systems thinkers but ah well I digress too much on a car forum)).
The morality of it all is best discussed ... with good wine, the morality of which is best discussed ... with cheap.
Glad to see you back anyways.
