Did Tesla design cars to be able to take a range extender just incase?

[FastLaneJB]

I know this really is something Elon has constantly said is the wrong way to go but lets say the pure EV market really does stall and a certain amount of the population will only accept a PHEV at least for the foreseeable future. Does Tesla ignore that portion of the market or have a play there also? I mean if people charge them properly and the range is sufficient, they are still way better than a pure ICE car.

There's a rather large space at the back of the car for under boot storage. If they had to, a small range extender petrol engine might potentially fit there? I mean I'm thinking tiny like the i3's tiny little engine. It's at the back so exhaust is easy to put in, make the battery a somewhat smaller and put in a fuel tank. Doesn't power the wheels, just a generator for the car.

I'm not an engineer, maybe it won't fit but Tesla are masters of packaging, I think it could do. The cars are efficient, it doesn't need to generate a lot of power. I think on the i3's they actually were speed limited when using the range extender engine because it couldn't generate enough load for full acceleration but it was enough to happily keep driving without issue.

I highly doubt they'll do this of course, just wondering if that space at the back maybe was designed as a plan B, just incase.

 

[dhrivnak]

No the space is for extra storage.

 

[E90alex]

No

 

[Adopado]

Definitely not!

 

[WllXM]

 

[FastLaneJB]

No the space is for extra storage.

Well it is when you don't have a use for it but it could potentially be repurposed if needs be.

As said I don't think they'll do it but more just wondering if they considered it and engineered in the space for it just incase.

 

[ewoodrick]

Not at all.
The Cybertruck does though.

If you put anything in the storage in the rear, you will throw the weight and balance off, messing up steering.

But sales are still great. We're going through a period where the US manufacturers underwent a FUD campaign to slow down sales, because they were having production issues.

And remember, what the #1 selling car in the world was last year. Not EV, CAR!

 

[FastLaneJB]

Not at all.
The Cybertruck does though.

If you put anything in the storage in the rear, you will throw the weight and balance off, messing up steering.

But sales are still great. We're going through a period where the US manufacturers underwent a FUD campaign to slow down sales, because they were having production issues.

And remember, what the #1 selling car in the world was last year. Not EV, CAR!

Right but sales aren't going in the right direction. You've basically got 3 kinds of consumer:

1. Will buy an EV as soon as they can afford one, might already have one.
2. Not yet ready to buy an EV because it does not yet suit them but will be fine doing so when that time comes.
3. Those that do not want an EV and you'd have to force them to buy one.

Customer number 1 might be starting to run out and you need to tap into 2. If the battery tech cannot improve quick enough, a range extender might be the way.

Also Tesla has a lot of competition right now, the Chinese are going to really dent their sales and they are happy to do PHEV's so not limiting their markets to only pure EV's.

 

[ewoodrick]

Right but sales aren't going in the right direction. You've basically got 3 kinds of consumer:

1. Will buy an EV as soon as they can afford one, might already have one.
2. Not yet ready to buy an EV because it does not yet suit them but will be fine doing so when that time comes.
3. Those that do not want an EV and you'd have to force them to buy one.

Customer number 1 might be starting to run out and you need to tap into 2. If the battery tech cannot improve quick enough, a range extender might be the way.

Also Tesla has a lot of competition right now, the Chinese are going to really dent their sales and they are happy to do PHEV's so not limiting their markets to only pure EV's.

One quarter of slightly softer sales by some manufacturers does not a failure make.
And definitely not a panic reaction does it require.

A range extender is just a patch for range anxiety.

Right now, there is a uniformed public opinion that there isn't enough charging locations. That's changing at a rapid pace.
Paradigm shifts don't happen overnight.

And when I bought my Model 3 only six years ago, the concept of an EV being the #1 selling car in the world was a completely foreign concept. I doubt that even the most forward-thinking people dared to make the statement.

The best path, stop making up idle FUD, Social Media searches the forums for statements like this, magnifies it and then makes it to the broader press.

When EV adoption is up, titles such as EV Failing get the news.

 

[thewishy]

The Cybertruck does though.

The Cybertruck "range extender" is really just a second battery pack. I'd see range extenders being small petrol engines like the i3.

FWIW, Tesla have absolutely no experience with designing, producing or servicing combustion engines. I can't see why they would move away from pure EV, especially when they get all the nice green credits for them.

A range extender is just a patch for range anxiety.

Absolutely, and Tesla have addressed that through a decent charging network and decent ranges on all their vehicles. As people have their friends tell them that it's not an issue, they'll slowly start to accept this

I think on the i3's they actually were speed limited when using the range extender engine because it couldn't generate enough load for full acceleration but it was enough to happily keep driving without issue.

My understanding is that you'd typically turn the range extender on when you were at about 30% (It turns on automatically with 20 miles left. You can also select manually from 75% SOC if you know you're going to need it). On a motorway this would mean that the battery would continue to drain, but much more slowly. The very small fuel tank means that you'd have to refill it every 80 miles or so, which limits practicality. It's not a true PHEV. It's more like a get out of jail free card if you've got a journey which is a little beyond the range and don't have the option for a charging stop.

 

[WllXM]

Absolutely, and Tesla have addressed that through a decent charging network and decent ranges on all their vehicles. As people have their friends tell them that it's not an issue, they'll slowly start to accept this

But on the other hand WLTP ranges are spreading a lot of mistrust.
My MYLR is sold for 330mi, realistically, the farthest I can go from full to empty is 230mi (using motorways obvs)

 

[GRiLLA]

Right but sales aren't going in the right direction. You've basically got 3 kinds of consumer:

1. Will buy an EV as soon as they can afford one, might already have one.
2. Not yet ready to buy an EV because it does not yet suit them but will be fine doing so when that time comes.
3. Those that do not want an EV and you'd have to force them to buy one.

Customer number 1 might be starting to run out and you need to tap into 2. If the battery tech cannot improve quick enough, a range extender might be the way.

Also Tesla has a lot of competition right now, the Chinese are going to really dent their sales and they are happy to do PHEV's so not limiting their markets to only pure EV's.

I think that you need to divide 2 into some sub categories

2a - Misinformed/Ignorant of the capabilities of EVs
2b - Lives in a location where at home charging is not readily possible yet
2c - Somehow would benefit from a range extender

I would suggest that 2c is a very small group, and a range extender wouldn't help 2a or 2b at all.

In terms of what is stalling demand, well it's clear that 'cost of living' is effecting people in many countries and buying a new car would be high up the list of things to avoid or defer. Price is the key factor more than product. I would add that in the UK the political messaging was also always likely to dampen demand, hopefully will get better after the election and we are rid of desperate populism in the face of climate change. We need firm government direction on the need to transform transport emissions.

 

[FastLaneJB]

I think that you need to divide 2 into some sub categories

2a - Misinformed/Ignorant of the capabilities of EVs
2b - Lives in a location where at home charging is not readily possible yet
2c - Somehow would benefit from a range extender

I would suggest that 2c is a very small group, and a range extender wouldn't help 2a or 2b at all.

In terms of what is stalling demand, well it's clear that 'cost of living' is effecting people in many countries and buying a new car would be high up the list of things to avoid or defer. Price is the key factor more than product. I would add that in the UK the political messaging was also always likely to dampen demand, hopefully will get better after the election and we are rid of desperate populism in the face of climate change. We need firm government direction on the need to transform transport emissions.

In reality, you are right that 2c should be a small group but it's probably a lot larger because it includes people that thinking they need it but in reality don't. Hell I'm going two EV's as a household but if Tesla had a Range Extender, one of them would be a Range Extender. It gives additional flexibility.

UK car sales are estimated to be up around 8% I believe YoY so despite the Cost of Living, more cars are still getting sold. If they are mostly saturating group 1, group 2 will be hard to crack.

 

[KennethS]

In reality, you are right that 2c should be a small group but it's probably a lot larger because it includes people that thinking they need it but in reality don't. Hell I'm going two EV's as a household but if Tesla had a Range Extender, one of them would be a Range Extender. It gives additional flexibility.

The perception that range will be a huge problem definitely puts people off. Our neighbour is dead set against an EV and says he won't consider one without at least 450 mile range (which he claims his current diesel cars do). And to confirm his bias he proudly declared that when on a recent holiday in Italy they rented some EV (he wouldn't say which) and found it horrible with "less than 150 mile range" between charges.

 

[WllXM]

The perception that range will be a huge problem definitely puts people off. Our neighbour is dead set against an EV and says he won't consider one without at least 450 mile range (which he claims his current diesel cars do). And to confirm his bias he proudly declared that when on a recent holiday in Italy they rented some EV (he wouldn't say which) and found it horrible with "less than 150 mile range" between charges.

We have to educate people into understanding that, even with a 450mile range ICE, you hardly do it without a break somewhere, which you can use for charging.
Clearly even the 200mi real-world range of my EV outlasts my wife's limited bladder capacity...

 

[FastLaneJB]

We have to educate people into understanding that, even with a 450mile range ICE, you hardly do it without a break somewhere, which you can use for charging.
Clearly even the 200mi real-world range of my EV outlasts my wife's limited bladder capacity...

It's not easy to do because it seems like a step backwards. Going from a car that probably has at least double, if not triple the range and also takes longer to "fill up" by a reasonable margin. Yes we know that it's not the big deal it's made out to be but to a lot of people it is and getting past that view is super hard.

Frankly even for myself, I'd like to do the NC500 again at some point in the future but I'll think twice about it in an EV. A few 50KW chargers covering the whole area is quite a risk if ones broken or there's a bit of a queue. It kind of makes it a bit out of reach I think.

I don't need to do this, hence buying an EV but even for me. I'd spend more money and get something with a larger battery and range if it existed... I still cannot break that view myself either.

 

[ewoodrick]

In reality, you are right that 2c should be a small group but it's probably a lot larger because it includes people that thinking they need it but in reality don't. Hell I'm going two EV's as a household but if Tesla had a Range Extender, one of them would be a Range Extender. It gives additional flexibility.

UK car sales are estimated to be up around 8% I believe YoY so despite the Cost of Living, more cars are still getting sold. If they are mostly saturating group 1, group 2 will be hard to crack.

I've been a two EV family and no ICE for 8 years. I can get anywhere I want.

Each group falls easily, as they see that others are making it work.

Where would you go where a Range Extender motor would help? or even Hybrid? (which is really what a motorized range extender is)

 

[FastLaneJB]

I've been a two EV family and no ICE for 8 years. I can get anywhere I want.

Each group falls easily, as they see that others are making it work.

Where would you go where a Range Extender motor would help? or even Hybrid? (which is really what a motorized range extender is)

Scottish Highlands for starters. A large but sparsely inhabited part which means there’s also almost no EV infrastructure. It’s a beautiful place and while not impossible to get around with an EV, could be risky and very slow going.

There’s plenty of places where there is more limited charging because it’s not as commercially viable to setup. You know the same kind of places that you probably also don’t have phone signal and in America, is likely to have some level of Cannibalism.

 

[ewoodrick]

Looks like you can get no further than about 50 miles from a DCFC if you are in the interior and maybe 20 miles on the coast?

 

[FastLaneJB]

Looks like you can get no further than about 50 miles from a DCFC if you are in the interior and maybe 20 miles on the coast?

View attachment 1043226

Lots of those are very slow, single chargers that do not always work. Say each car is going to take 2 hours to charge, if your third in the queue you’ll be there for 6 hours. That’s not going to be a very enjoyable trip.