Welcome to Tesla Motors Club
Discuss Tesla's Model S, Model 3, Model X, Model Y, Cybertruck, Roadster and More.
Register

Discussion : All discussion regarding Model 3 and Tax credit in model 3 subforum

This site may earn commission on affiliate links.
Really ? Wouldn't it be based on the upcoming tax
You said he doesn't make enough to file, so there is no upcoming tax.

Thanks. I'm assuming then it also doesn't work if he does the lease ? So tesla.com lease calculator doesn't calculate that in their estimate? Since dealers can take the 7500 for leases? Or does?
Leases end up having nothing to do with lessee, the lessor qualifies for the credit and it is up to them if they reduce the leasing costs to account for that or if they keep 100% of it for themselves.
 
The intent of the transfer of credit is to make the clean vehicle credit accessible to more families instead of the "rich" with enough income to get the benefit of the full $7,500, and the law goes further to restrict the "even richer" from getting the credit even with the transfer of credit.
And it does that by making what they qualify for available at time of purchase, essentially as a downpayment, instead of them having to front the money and get it back when they file taxes. (Or by reducing their withholdings.)

So the transfer of credit allows a low income family to transfer the fully qualified $7,500 credit to the dealership to offset its total tax presumably well in excess of $7,500.
Not from everything I have read. But we will see for sure once further guidance comes out. (Though we might know for sure until 2025 when the tax forms are finalized.)
 
Not from everything I have read. But we will see for sure once further guidance comes out. (Though we might know for sure until 2025 when the tax forms are finalized.)
Yeah, there can be differences in what was intended with the law and what the IRS provides guidance, e.g., leasing counting as commercial to bypass various "clean" requirements.

The idea for point-of-sale / transfer-of-credit isn't new, and the Congressional Budget Office's Effects of Federal Tax Credits for the Purchase of Electric Vehicles writeup from 2012 has a section under "Possible Approaches for Future Policies:"

Equalizing Purchase Incentives for All Buyers of Electric Vehicles
Because the tax credits reduce a buyer’s federal income tax liability on a dollar-for-dollar basis up to the value of the credit or the buyer’s tax liability, whichever is smaller, most taxpayers cannot take full advantage of the credits. For tax year 2011, CBO estimates that about 20 percent of potential tax filers (including people who do not file because they are below the income threshold) had federal income tax liability of at least $7,500 (the maximum tax credit), and only about 40 percent had liability of $2,500 or more (the minimum tax credit).​
…​
Another alternative would be to replace the tax credits with a direct, point-of-purchase rebate. A direct rebate, like the one used in the “Cash for Clunkers” program, could be handled entirely by the seller and applied to the purchase price of the vehicle. A point-of-sale rebate would have additional advantages for buyers, including those who have enough tax liability to claim the full value of the current credits. For example, it would allow buyers whose purchases involved loans to reduce the amount they financed.​
More recently leading up to various bills getting combined into the Inflation Reduction Act, bills like "Electric Cars Act" from Merkley, Heinrich, Cortez Masto had ideas of improving the EV credit with changes like "Allowing buyers to use the tax credit over a 5-year period, or apply the credit at the point of sale, making the credit more applicable to those without large tax liability."

But as you and others point out, we'll need to wait for more details of how the Clean Vehicle Credit will actually be implemented:

2024 and beyond
Starting in 2024, the consumer will be able to choose to transfer the tax credit to the dealership, making the tax credit a point-of-sale rebate. This is great for folks who previously were not able to benefit from the tax credit because of personal tax liability. The details of this process are still being worked out.​
 
I am reading documentation on the IRS web site (www.irs.gov/pub/irs-drop/rp-22-42.pdf) In section 5 on page 15 it talks about a SELLERS REPORTS and it says "Seller must provide the report to the taxpayer not later than the date the vehicle is purchased..." This report is described as a copy of what will be reported to the IRS "within fifteen (15) days of the end of the calendar year" I did not receive a SELLERS REPORT and the folks I talked to at Tesla are not aware of this requirement and they don't have access to such a report. I would like to see this report to confirm that they have the correct SSN to avoid any possible complications. Has anyone else gotten one of these reports? Am I completely off base here? Does anyone know where I could request a copy of this report?

SECTION 5. SELLER’S REPORTS
.01 Required Reports under Sections 30D and 25E. For purposes of § 30D(d)(1)(H), the person who sells any vehicle to the taxpayer or, for purposes of § 25E(c)(1)(D)(i), the dealer (as defined in § 30D(g)(8)) who sells any vehicle to the taxpayer, as applicable, (collectively, Seller) must furnish a report to the taxpayer and the IRS, at such time and in such manner as the Secretary provides containing information that is listed in this section 5.01. Accordingly, for vehicle sales occurring in calendar year 2023 or later, the Seller must provide the report to the taxpayer not later than the date the vehicle is purchased and must submit the report to Secretary within fifteen (15) days of the end of the calendar year containing the following:
(1) The name and taxpayer identification number of the Seller;
(2) The name and taxpayer identification number of the taxpayer; 16
(3) The vehicle identification number of the vehicle, unless, in accordance with any applicable rules promulgated by the Secretary of Transportation, the vehicle is not assigned such a number;
(4) The battery capacity of the vehicle;
(5) Only for sales of new clean vehicles, verification that original use of the vehicle commences with the taxpayer;
(6) The date of sale, sale price of the vehicle, and maximum credit under § 30D or § 25E, as applicable, allowable to the taxpayer with respect to the vehicle;
(7) For sales after December 31, 2023, in the case of a taxpayer who makes an election to transfer the credit to an eligible entity under § 30D(g)(1), any amount paid or otherwise allowable as a partial payment or down payment to the taxpayer; and
(8) A declaration applicable to the report signed by a person currently authorized to bind the Seller in these matters, in the following form: “Under penalties of perjury, I declare that I have examined this report submitted to the IRS pursuant to Revenue Procedure 2022-42 by [insert name of Seller], and to the best of my knowledge and belief I certify that this report is true, correct, and complete.” This written report must be provided to the IRS in the time and manner described in section 6.03 of this revenue procedure.
 
I did not receive a SELLERS REPORT and the folks I talked to at Tesla are not aware of this requirement and they don't have access to such a report
Was this for a vehicle that recently changed classifications, e.g., Model Y used to have a lower MSRP limit like a sedan instead of SUV? The IRS has special note about that particular change:

Q10. When must the seller provide the report to the taxpayer? (updated February 3, 2023)
A10. The seller must provide the report to the taxpayer not later than the date the vehicle is purchased. However, taxpayers that did not receive a report from the seller because their vehicle was previously ineligible but their vehicle is now eligible (such as due to a change in the vehicle’s classification and the applicable MSRP limitation) may request and receive a report from the seller after the vehicle’s purchase date.​
It seems like the IRS relies on these reports to verify who is allowed to take the credit as only one taxpayer will be on the report even if there's multiple owners filing separate tax returns (with only that one person allowed to claim the credit).
 
2024 and beyondStarting in 2024, the consumer will be able to choose to transfer the tax credit to the dealership, making the tax credit a point-of-sale rebate. This is great for folks who previously were not able to benefit from the tax credit because of personal tax liability. The details of this process are still being worked out.
so, does this mean he'd get the rebate?
But if there's no rebate from federal, is he better off buying a 2023 tesla at the lower prices now? do we think 2024 prices are going to be highter? Is 2023 inventory dwindling?
 
No, it was fully qualified on the date we purchased it (Feb-17-2023)
Looking through some other posts about the federal credit, it looks like Tesla updated the registration process ~May to ask for the SSN explicitly stating it's for Section 30D Federal Tax Credit:
img_7834-png.956307


Apparently Tesla has said a tax credit document will eventually show up for your account, but unclear how they'll report it to the IRS if they didn't ask for your SSN in the first place…
 
  • Like
Reactions: NJturtlePower
I don’t believe there’s any uncertainty about this whatsoever
What part of the law certainly reduces the credit amount for low income? The credit can still be the full $7500 if not limited by critical minerals, battery components, excess MAGI, excess MSRP. I don't see a limitation for the Clean Vehicle Credit for insufficient tax liability. The effect of excess nonrefundable credits is that they're unused and result in no additional benefit to the taxpayer.

Maybe a different way to ask: people are certain it's impossible to have excess nonrefundable credits?
 

Federal Tax Credit, using two separate years?​

renderTimingPixel.png

Credits for New Clean Vehicles Purchased in 2023 or After | Internal Revenue Service
  • Taken from link above:
    In addition, your modified adjusted gross income (AGI) may not exceed:
    $300,000 for married couples filing jointly
  • $225,000 for heads of households
  • $150,000 for all other filers
  • You can use your modified AGI from the year you take delivery of the vehicle or the year before, whichever is less. If your modified AGI is below the threshold in 1 of the two years, you can claim the credit.
-
My question is, if i decide to use my modified AGI from the year before(2022) to meet the threshold of <150k, but in that year, my line 16 on my 1040 is only 3k, will I only be eligible for 3k instead of 7.5k?
-
can i use my modified AGI from 2022 to qualify, but also use my income from 2023, since my taxes (line 16) from 2023 will be greater than 7.5k? (my income from 2023 will be >150k, as opposed to 2022 where it was significantly less)
thanks in advance!
 
can i use my modified AGI from 2022 to qualify, but also use my income from 2023, since my taxes (line 16) from 2023 will be greater than 7.5k? (my income from 2023 will be >150k, as opposed to 2022 where it was significantly less)
thanks in advance!
My understanding based on what you posted would be yes, you could do this. You're claiming the credit on your 2023 taxes even if you use the 2022 MAGI to qualify, so the value of the credit is going to be based on your tax liability as calculated in 2023.

Put another way, you're not filing an amended 2022 return to claim the credit that year. You're still claiming it in 2023.
 
The part that clearly defines the credit as nonrefundable
Which part of the law is that? I'm really asking as I don't see where the law calls this credit "nonrefundable," but I do agree that the end behavior is that it's nonrefundable (because it's not a "refundable" credit treated as overpayment). And to be clear, the IRS provides guidance and forms for people to follow the law, and their wording can match up with the law but often is simplified to describe understandable behavior.

For example, "26 USC §25D: Residential clean energy credit" allowing 30% credit for solar/battery installation specifically has a subsection (c) Carryforward of unused credit that explicitly handles credits limited by tax liability to be usable for future tax liability.

As written:​
If the credit allowable under subsection (a) exceeds the limitation imposed by section 26(a) for such taxable year reduced by the sum of the credits allowable under this subpart (other than this section), such excess shall be carried to the succeeding taxable year and added to the credit allowable under subsection (a) for such succeeding taxable year.​
Under the Residential Clean Energy Property Credit: a taxpayer may carry forward the unused amount of the credit to reduce tax liability in future tax years.​

You're saying there's clearly a section related to the Clean Vehicle Credit that limits it to one's tax liability (i.e., the credit dollar amount is reduced to match the tax liability)? As opposed to the same effect of unused credits (i.e., the credit dollar amount is greater than the tax liability) resulting in the same tax benefit?

The distinction is that limited credits would probably cause point-of-sale transferred credit to be reduced from $7500 whereas unused credits could be fully transferred.
 
Hello everyone

A quick question. I just want someone confirm please.

So my wife and I bought model y this year under both names. I plan to trade my M3 in this year. Can I claim tax credit for both or just one? Thought you are only allowed to claim one!

Thanks
 
Hello everyone

A quick question. I just want someone confirm please.

So my wife and I bought model y this year under both names. I plan to trade my M3 in this year. Can I claim tax credit for both or just one? Thought you are only allowed to claim one!

Thanks

You can claim a credit for each vehicle you buy. I do not believe there is a Federal limit.

Some states may have a limit on tax credits/rebates per year.
 
  • Like
Reactions: T3M3T and mongo
Hello everyone

A quick question. I just want someone confirm please.

So my wife and I bought model y this year under both names. I plan to trade my M3 in this year. Can I claim tax credit for both or just one? Thought you are only allowed to claim one!

Thanks
My understanding:
For the new clean vehicle credit, there is no limit per year per purchaser. Only the general income limit.
For the previously-owned clean vehicle credit, there is a one credit per 3 years per taxpayer limit.
On joint purchases, either purchaser can be designated as the buyer for the tax credit (dealer side paperwork), so married filling jointly can get two previously owned credits in 3 years (one each).