Discussion: HW.4 Suite - Availability, retrofit, suitability etc.

[socal_suburbanit]

Highland announced overnight for Europe and Asia. Canada press is claiming that it will not ship in NA until 2024 so that is interesting.
For Model Y HW4 discussion purposes - do we know what the HW4 camera situation is other than the bumper camera? For instance does the Highland share camera views/angles to a large degree with either M3 or MY HW4? I'm wondering if MY HW4 and M3 Highland can share video captures for ML training (have they up to now)?
And for the front bumper camera many posts I've seen today lament it will be used for FSD - but I'm not sure that is an obvious conclusion. It seems more useful in low speed/creep situations (Summon) than in an FSD 10+MPH situation. And if the fleet can share NN imaging (even if re-rendering resolution or slight POV changes) it seems a big win rather than training up a new camera.
I find it odd that after years of claiming using same sensor setup in all Tesla vehicles saves money on production and streamlines FSD development has morphed into a completely splintered set of sensor/resolution/compute packages.

 

[[Zombie]]

current SW on it is 2023.20.200.

The .200 means it's a factory-installed image. Your car should get the update to a more recent (.26 or .32 ) in the next few days.

I assume there is no way to "force" any particular release or sub-release. You just tell the car to check and it lets you know if something is waiting for install.

All you can do is go to the software screen every 24 hours to force the car to check slightly more often that whatever it does in the background.

And if that screen says it is "up to date as of" a date more than 24 hours in the past, you can force it to recheck by doing a soft reboot

Change the UI display language eg from English to British English and the UI will restart and immediately check for new software if it has been more than 24 hours.

Then change it back to "English" if you wonder why your frunk and trunk are missing and you get a bonnet and boot instead

 

[phxazcraig]

I picked up my new MYP a week ago, and I've been learning about Tesla in general, and my car in detail. I don't actually have FSD yet, because I'm on HW4 I think. Software is 2023.26.100.

Yesterday I was driving my family to lunch and tried EA. Results were much sketchier than I expected. In 10 minutes of use I saw first some phantom braking as I began to pass a trailer, and then twice I had to take over as the car tried to stop for a green light. (Got the 500 foot warning - no cars, 3 lanes, all lights green.)

That was on the way to lunch. On the way home, another instance of trying to stop at a red light. And then the most disturbing thing of all happened when trying to get into my sister's gated community. First, navigation took me to a gate that has no keypad so you can't get in without a remote. That didn't seem to both autopilot as it approached the solid brown metal gate. 20 feet from it I realized that autopilot was going to drive right into the gate as if it wasn't there so I jammed on the brakes.

I'm looking forward to seeing a major improvement in EA/FSD. When is that coming to new HW4 Y's?

 

[Ostrichsak]

It's a driver's aid, not a replacement. The version you have (EAP) will especially never be a driver's replacement as it was never intender to be. Use it as it was intended and you will be fine. People get into trouble when they assume it's going to replace their need to be ready to intervene at any moment. Once expectations are properly adjusted, it's mostly fine.

 

[Tam]

I'm looking forward to seeing a major improvement in EA/FSD. When is that coming to new HW4 Y's?

Elon Musk kept saying since 2014 that Tesla will be able to self-drive in 2 years or next year, and now this year 2023.

Since the introduction of first Autopilot 1 until now, Tesla still has the same problem of collisions if drivers are not attentive.

I don't think your hope of HW4 will not solve the collision issue.

I believe the proof is in sensor fusion and not just Vision alone.

 

[azred]

I picked up my new MYP a week ago, and I've been learning about Tesla in general, and my car in detail. I don't actually have FSD yet, because I'm on HW4 I think. Software is 2023.26.100.

Yesterday I was driving my family to lunch and tried EA. Results were much sketchier than I expected. In 10 minutes of use I saw first some phantom braking as I began to pass a trailer, and then twice I had to take over as the car tried to stop for a green light. (Got the 500 foot warning - no cars, 3 lanes, all lights green.)

That was on the way to lunch. On the way home, another instance of trying to stop at a red light. And then the most disturbing thing of all happened when trying to get into my sister's gated community. First, navigation took me to a gate that has no keypad so you can't get in without a remote. That didn't seem to both autopilot as it approached the solid brown metal gate. 20 feet from it I realized that autopilot was going to drive right into the gate as if it wasn't there so I jammed on the brakes.

I'm looking forward to seeing a major improvement in EA/FSD. When is that coming to new HW4 Y's?

Spend some time reading/searching relevant threads on this site. Most HW4 Y’s have had FSD for a week or so and there are tons of posts here about it. You will get it soon but patience is required.

As for the car trying to stop on green, turn off the stop light crap on EAP, which is what you have until you get the FSD software. That’s how it works under EAP. It’s a crappy intro to FSD city streets though someone here will probably post their disagreement.

As for gated communities, you are trying to use EAP for city streets and it is not designed for that (though I too used EAP everywhere when that was all I had). But even when you get FSD with city street functionality gates aren’t yet recognized, nor are lots of other things like school zones (which is my pet peeve currently) and your home parking spot.

Musk promised us an almost complete product in Fall 2017 and that would include a cross country trip in 2017 with FSD doing everything but serving lunch. He lied. But hopefully it won’t be too many more months/years before we get a product that handles all but the most obscure edge cases.

 

[phxazcraig]

I wish I had a picture of the gate the car tried to crash into. It was about 6 inches off the ground, almost four feet high and was solid metal, brown in color. I mean this was a brown wall four feet high from curb to curb. And the car acted like it wasn't even there.

 

[Tam]

I wish I had a picture of the gate the car tried to crash into. It was about 6 inches off the ground, almost four feet high and was solid metal, brown in color. I mean this was a brown wall four feet high from curb to curb. And the car acted like it wasn't even there.

I don't understand what you are expecting from Tesla given Tesla's history that it has not gotten a reliable collision avoidance system and humans must help its system to avoid collisions.

From a slow speed in the garage/parking lot in summons to high speed.

A big gigantic tractor trailer is huge and Tesla on AP1 collided and the driver was killed in 2016.

The same scenario happened again in 2019 with AP2.

There have been numerous cases of Tesla system would not avoid colliding with stationary First Responder Vehicles...

I don't think your gate would be bigger and higher than a tractor-trailer so if Tesla hasn't been able to solve the collision issues from all these years, I don't see how you can expect Tesla solve your gate collision problem in a timely manner?

 

[pinolero]

I finally got to try FSD on my MYP that I picked up this past week on a long beach road trip. I too had some ghosting issues with braking but the craziest thing was going home last night the car wanted to go into the HOV lanes which were closed and it attempted to lane change into the closed lanes. Like everyone states you have to be on top of it especially since it's beta.

Overall I did enjoy the fact that driving fatigue was greatly reduced and made the trip more enjoyable. When everything works flawlessly you are impressed, when things get confusing for the system you realize that it has a long ways to go.

 

[azred]

I wish I had a picture of the gate the car tried to crash into. It was about 6 inches off the ground, almost four feet high and was solid metal, brown in color. I mean this was a brown wall four feet high from curb to curb. And the car acted like it wasn't even there.

Did you see my post? I told you that EAP isn’t intended for city streets so until you have FSD any usage on streets will be very sketchy. After you get FSD then it will be time to point out city streets limitations — and there are many.

 

[Deaf Paul]

I am trading in my 2019 M3 on Tuesday for a HW4 MY, and transferring my FSD. I'm doing this to get a bigger car, and to beef up the tech to take me into the next 4-6 years. The ability to transfer the FSD, along with the tax incentives is what pushed me over the edge. But just last night I was reading about how HW4 has less RAM, less storage and might be 6 months away, at least, from FSD beta firmware. I just *assumed* (stupid me) that HW4 was better. The firmware issue was known and expected, but I didn't know it could be half a year or longer to resolve. Not psyched about that. And having half the RAM and storage, do we have any idea if this will negatively affect the car vs. my current 2019 M3 with Intel infotainment? I know FSD and infotainment computers are different. But I'm really concerned that, along with the loss of USS, I'm going to be kicking myself: no gain from HW4 (actually a downgrade in significant ways), no FSD software for a 1/8th of the car's expected life (with me), and...what else? Is this a stupid decision? Is HW4 just better cameras with no software to take advantage of them? Is HW4 just marketing to make people like me buy a new Tesla?

Maybe asked another way: How will HW4 actually benefit me?

I'm stressing about that too... Coming from a 2018 M3 LR with EAP, I bought a '20 MY LR with FSD last weekend just for the FSD, then a couple days later, put down money on an incoming inventory MYP, and started the FSD transfer from the '20 MY LR to the new '23 MYP that should be here September 27. Then selling both the M3LR and MYLR. Cutting it this close is stressful enough, but now I'm questioning the wisdom of going to the most current version with HW4.0 and less memory. Am I going to be kicking myself?

UGH.

-Paul

 

[Krash]

…but now I'm questioning the wisdom of going to the most current version with HW4.0 and less memory..,

That will turn out to be a really smart move if you can handle the initial down time. I considered doing the same.

Did you lose money on sales tax? Did you consider trading one in for the new vehicle? I assume you can’t trade two in at a time.

 

[syc1]

I'm stressing about that too... Coming from a 2018 M3 LR with EAP, I bought a '20 MY LR with FSD last weekend just for the FSD, then a couple days later, put down money on an incoming inventory MYP, and started the FSD transfer from the '20 MY LR to the new '23 MYP that should be here September 27. Then selling both the M3LR and MYLR. Cutting it this close is stressful enough, but now I'm questioning the wisdom of going to the most current version with HW4.0 and less memory. Am I going to be kicking myself?

UGH.

-Paul

I thought you can transfer only FSD if you were the original owner of the car. Not sure if the car qualifies since you bought used.

 

[Deaf Paul]

I don't recall seeing anywhere that I had to be the original purchaser of the FSD - just that I had to own a car with FSD on the app to do the transfer. On the app, it showed that the transfer has been started from the old one to the new incoming one. Now just waiting to take delivery of the new car for the transfer process to complete.

-Paul

 

[jkdman123]

I don't recall seeing anywhere that I had to be the original purchaser of the FSD - just that I had to own a car with FSD on the app to do the transfer. On the app, it showed that the transfer has been started from the old one to the new incoming one. Now just waiting to take delivery of the new car for the transfer process to complete.

-Paul

From Tesla's FAQ about FSD transfers:

• Be the legal owner and registrant of the current vehicle with Full Self-Driving capability purchased outright

So it doesn't seem to matter if you are the original purchaser of the FSD so long as you are the *current* owner and it was bought outright, not subscribed.