Discussion: HW.4 Suite - Availability, retrofit, suitability etc.

[SageBrush]

I have the LR/AWD Model Y on order with a tentative delivery window of Jan 22 - Feb 05.

I'm now debating whether to try and delay delivery to increase my chances of getting upgraded AP hardware. Perhaps somewhat oddly, I'm not particularly interested in AP other than dynamic cruise control and safety features, but I AM interested in solving the phantom braking issue I experienced with a Model Y from Oct/22.

Reasonable thought ?

 

[Tam]

...solving the phantom braking issue...

I've lost faith in Tesla in solving ADAS/FSD issues.

It's nice that Tesla now has labeled one of It's phantom brakes with a message on the instrument panel that it purposely slows down because it sees First Responder flashing light. The issues were: I was on the very left lane out of 5 lane freeway and I saw no flashing lights anywhere and no First Responder vehicles when it did that.

Waymo has solved these issues for years. Tesla needs to hire Waymo if you want to have hope that Tesla can solve these issues in your lifetime.

At this pace, HW 2, 2.5, 3.0, and upcoming 4.0 won't help.

 

[nate704]

I've lost faith in Tesla in solving ADAS/FSD issues.

It's nice that Tesla now has labeled one of It's phantom brakes with a message on the instrument panel that it purposely slows down because it sees First Responder flashing light. The issues were: I was on the very left lane out of 5 lane freeway and I saw no flashing lights anywhere and no First Responder vehicles when it did that.

Waymo has solved these issues for years. Tesla needs to hire Waymo if you want to have hope that Tesla can solve these issues in your lifetime.

At this pace, HW 2, 2.5, 3.0, and upcoming 4.0 won't help.

I am not sure Waymo fixed this issues, but let's say they did, and they can do it on their proto types all day long since there's no limitation doing experiment on the proto types.
When it comes to mass production and development, it is another level of problems and limitation that you need to overcome.

 

[SageBrush]

At this pace, HW 2, 2.5, 3.0, and upcoming 4.0 won't help.

Pessimism aside, my hope is that the improved and newly returned radar would solve the problem.

 

[Araex]

Pessimism aside, my hope is that the improved and newly returned radar would solve the problem.

I'm in the same position. I'm thinking it's better to forgo half of the tax credit than to having to deal with phantom braking.

I had a Model 3 before, but I currently drive an AP1 car, and AP1 is simply rock solid.

 

[SageBrush]

To someone in the know ..

What are tell-tale signs I can look for to distinguish HW.3 from HW.4 ? I know the camera # is different, and perhaps the 'about this car' screen lists the HW version ?

 

[Fusion]

Are the current ones being delivered with only cameras with no radar or with radar but not active?

 

[SageBrush]

I'm in the same position. I'm thinking it's better to forgo half of the tax credit than to having to deal with phantom braking.

Yah.

I'm only able to collect up to $4.5k EV credit, so the possible drop past March is only a $750 difference. And if Tesla drops the msrp to make up the drop in tax credit, even better

Like you though, I'm a lot more interested in resolution of phantom braking than the money.

 

[flgatorfan]

I have the LR/AWD Model Y on order with a tentative delivery window of Jan 22 - Feb 05.

I'm now debating whether to try and delay delivery to increase my chances of getting upgraded AP hardware. Perhaps somewhat oddly, I'm not particularly interested in AP other than dynamic cruise control and safety features, but I AM interested in solving the phantom braking issue I experienced with a Model Y from Oct/22.

Reasonable thought ?

I don't know if HW4 will do anything I care about, but just knowing it's somewhat close makes me not want to buy the old iphone right before the new iphone comes out.

 

[SageBrush]

I don't know if HW4 will do anything I care about, but just knowing it's somewhat close makes me not want to buy the old iphone right before the new iphone comes out.

That approach does not serve Tesla customers well because the car changes from month to month. If you chase tomorrow, you will never buy a car or will join the ranks of the complainers. All we can do is ask ourselves if the car *today* is a car we will be happy with at the price offered. The bright side to the Tesla approach is that we get frequent software updates which are frankly quite awesome.

 

[charlesoris]

I have the LR/AWD Model Y on order with a tentative delivery window of Jan 22 - Feb 05.

I'm now debating whether to try and delay delivery to increase my chances of getting upgraded AP hardware. Perhaps somewhat oddly, I'm not particularly interested in AP other than dynamic cruise control and safety features, but I AM interested in solving the phantom braking issue I experienced with a Model Y from Oct/22.

Reasonable thought ?

If you are not in the rush, I would postpone delivery and wait for Tesla to start making vehicles with Hi-Res, wider FOV Cameras, and Hi-Res Radar, and the code to take advantage of new capabilities. Also, I would wait for user feedback before committing to purchase.

 

[tashtibet]

FSD/autonomous & Metaverse have never done yet-so, we will never know-it's experimenting, learning, developing etc.

 

[flgatorfan]

That approach does not serve Tesla customers well because the car changes from month to month. If you chase tomorrow, you will never buy a car or will join the ranks of the complainers. All we can do is ask ourselves if the car *today* is a car we will be happy with at the price offered. The bright side to the Tesla approach is that we get frequent software updates which are frankly quite awesome.

While you're not wrong, I know *today* that HW4 is coming and that does play somewhat into my decision making. Since I don't need a car in the immediate term, I can wait. Of course by doing so I risk prices going up or the tax credit getting halved, etc. I might get impatient if daddy Elon gets the MYP to qualify for 7500...

 

[Tam]

I am not sure Waymo fixed this issues, but let's say they did, and they can do it on their proto types all day long since there's no limitation doing experiment on the proto types.
When it comes to mass production and development, it is another level of problems and limitation that you need to overcome.

JJRicks has recorded about 80 of his rides with Waymo for 2 years with the good and bad but I didn't hear about phantom brakes

https://youtube.com/@JJRicks

 

[Tam]

Pessimism aside, my hope is that the improved and newly returned radar would solve the problem.

Hardware helps but in Tesla’s case it's more about software.

As I mentioned above, my Model X displayed a message on the instrument cluster the reason that it slowed down: Flashing lights from Emergency Service but I saw none. The most sophisticated, most expensive hardware won't help in this case. We need a competent software team to correctly identify that there's no flashing lights and it should not perform a phantom brake.

 

[Tam]

To someone in the know ..

What are tell-tale signs I can look for to distinguish HW.3 from HW.4 ? I know the camera # is different, and perhaps the 'about this car' screen lists the HW version ?

Very easy: older versions have trifocal camera housing on your windshield.

HW 4 takes 1 camera so you can see 2-camera housing on your windshield.

 

[WyoDude]

We need a competent software team to correctly identify that there's no flashing lights and it should not perform a phantom brake.

ohhh that’s the problem, they’ve hired incompetent software engineers. Otherwise this is probably a super easy problem to solve.

 

[WyoDude]

I have the LR/AWD Model Y on order with a tentative delivery window of Jan 22 - Feb 05.

I'm now debating whether to try and delay delivery to increase my chances of getting upgraded AP hardware. Perhaps somewhat oddly, I'm not particularly interested in AP other than dynamic cruise control and safety features, but I AM interested in solving the phantom braking issue I experienced with a Model Y from Oct/22.

Reasonable thought ?

If you don’t need a car anytime soon I’d probably wait, however I wouldn’t be surprised if HW4 doesn’t come out for a while. There will always be something new looming but HW4, new cameras and possible HD radar seem worth waiting for if you can.

 

[SageBrush]

I wouldn’t be surprised if HW4 doesn’t come out for a while

Big question, that one. An auto publication I read today said this month, but I'll take that with a grain of salt. If recent history is anything to go by, the Shanghai factory is the first to produce new changes.

 

[WyoDude]

Big question, that one. An auto publication I read today said this month, but I'll take that with a grain of salt. If recent history is anything to go by, the Shanghai factory is the first to produce new changes.

Agreed

It would also make sense for them to not release until April to spur more demand again if the tax credit is cut in half. Everyone is just speculating, so like you said grain of salt until there is some more concrete evidence (reports of new hardware being shipped in China or elsewhere, new code not yet turned on, etc.)