Discussion: HW.4 Suite - Availability, retrofit, suitability etc.

[JeffEV]

Sharing out very interesting article about Model Y, HW4 and radar! (esp shorter term strategy and enhancements) —

Tesla's Model Y With Hardware 4.0 Doesn't Include Radar: We Take a Look at Why

Tesla's newly introduced Hardware 4.0, equipped in the Model 3 and Model Y, makes a bold shift away from radar technology. We dive into this development and the

www.notateslaapp.com

It’s still confusing to think about the purpose of HW4 (which had capability to assimilate radar) in Ys and not having radar (and say that Tesla will allow retrofit of radars into HW4 Ys down the line IFFF.. it’s actually a temporary supply issue).

TL;DR - confusion

How will 2 Ys with and without radar perform as far as FSD/even basic AP is concerned - seems like it’ll create more issues in supporting 2 versions of their live operational systems and divert their energy. Interesting way to operate though.

If only Elon cleared this confusion favorably for those with this ‘in between’ hardware using his favorite Twitter!!

Also, has anyone been able to confirm if this "partial" HW4 includes a new microprocessor? Image processing power will be critical for FSD fully based on vision.

 

[GeorgeSymonds]

Sharing out very interesting article about Model Y, HW4 and radar! (esp shorter term strategy and enhancements) —

Tesla's Model Y With Hardware 4.0 Doesn't Include Radar: We Take a Look at Why

Tesla's newly introduced Hardware 4.0, equipped in the Model 3 and Model Y, makes a bold shift away from radar technology. We dive into this development and the

www.notateslaapp.com

It’s still confusing to think about the purpose of HW4 (which had capability to assimilate radar) in Ys and not having radar (and say that Tesla will allow retrofit of radars into HW4 Ys down the line IFFF.. it’s actually a temporary supply issue).

TL;DR - confusion

How will 2 Ys with and without radar perform as far as FSD/even basic AP is concerned - seems like it’ll create more issues in supporting 2 versions of their live operational systems and divert their energy. Interesting way to operate though.

If only Elon cleared this confusion favorably for those with this ‘in between’ hardware using his favorite Twitter!!

I think we’re in danger of over thinking these things fuelled by speculation by sites like this. You talk about confusion but that’s partly being caused by notateslaapp and others by what is effectively guessing.

There’s probably a simpler explanation, they’re just better parts to do the same job just like they change suspension parts or rubber seals.

Musk has said there will be different levels of safety, ie 5x or 7x safer than a human. Better sensors help improve things but Tesla won’t know the final numbers until it’s done. Better quality images are being fed in, or they can refresh due to faster cou at say 40hz rather than say 35hz, and intuitively faster refresh means quicker reactions etc, but I wouldn’t like to say that’s a 10% safety improvement. Tesla aren’t going to retro fit radar, that’s been pretty much established because of the body work changes required, the simpler answer is Tesla will simply allow these different performance levels. Let’s not forget they have to get it working in HW3 cars without radar of which there are millions.

 

[vickh]

According to a ranger HW4 is already appearing in deliveries in PHX. So I tweaked my order to see if it delays things. (took off tow hitch)

 

[C2023]

Also, has anyone been able to confirm if this "partial" HW4 includes a new microprocessor? Image processing power will be critical for FSD fully based on vision.

I've wondered about this also, since the code for this new system is AP04 (vs APH1-4 like past computers / likely nothing and just getting the sequence back on track) and all of the dash cam footage I've seen from new Ys has more accurate color but the resolution appears the same as HW3 cameras (though this is likely just due to stills of in-car tablets).

Could someone with HW4 on a new Y export some footage and check the resolution and frame rate? I think if we see the 4K video with higher frame rate, it's likely a new chip.

 

[vickh]

I remembered someone mentioned that Austin Built was moving back to HW3.0. only a few HW4.0 were made.

So Fremont builds are all 4.0 at this point? I might switch to LR for that. I'm also not so sure about the 4680 battery form factor

I missed out on 3.0 with my M3 by a few weeks (tax credit was expiring) so don't want that FOMO with my Y

 

[[Zombie]]

Could someone with HW4 on a new Y export some footage and check the resolution and frame rate?

Dirty Tesla did a comparison video which shows only a moderate resolution increase - more horizontal but less vertical resolution - but the framerate jumped from 23.37 fps to 35.63 fps and the overal bitrate has doubled.

 

[C2023]

Dirty Tesla did a comparison video which shows only a moderate resolution increase - more horizontal but less vertical resolution - but the framerate jumped from 23.37 fps to 35.63 fps and the overal bitrate has doubled.View attachment 943183

Thanks for posting.

I watched this earlier today and found it very informative. I think he’s using an S for the HW4 footage. Would likely be the same, but I’m curious about the HW4 Y, since I’ve read that S/X have the radar and Y doesn’t.

 

[AJ..]

Thanks for posting.

I watched this earlier today and found it very informative. I think he’s using an S for the HW4 footage. Would likely be the same, but I’m curious about the HW4 Y, since I’ve read that S/X have the radar and Y doesn’t.

S/X have either disabled radar or in some cases it’s even getting removed (when taking car for service!) so not sure if footage will be any different (they’re just not producing any signal/data)

 

[C2023]

S/X have either disabled radar or in some cases it’s even getting removed (when taking car for service!) so not sure if footage will be any different (they’re just not producing any signal/data)

Ah, that's interesting to know about the radar removal. Thanks for this info. I'd still be curious to see details on Model Y footage, but I agree it's likely the same. Thanks again.

 

[AbraDabra007]

Group: I took the delivery of my 2023 MY LR yesterday. It is Fremont built and came with HW4 - those red cameras The VIN is 791XXX. So this should give you indication on what to expect if you have your VIN.
Having said that, I cant say if it is a great thing - I posted on another thread and learnt that HW4 has no Park Assist at all, at the moment... that sucks big time.

 

[AJ..]

Group: I took the delivery of my 2023 MY LR yesterday. It is Fremont built and came with HW4 - those red cameras The VIN is 791XXX. So this should give you indication on what to expect if you have your VIN.
Having said that, I cant say if it is a great thing - I posted on another thread and learnt that HW4 has no Park Assist at all, at the moment... that sucks big time.

Great news! Enjoy your new car

Is there a way other than looking at red tint camera (like anything on config display etc where it shows “Full Self Driving Computer”) if it’s HW4 ?

Could try to take a pic of “service mode” otherwise - that uncovers a lot of info not easily otherwise accessible
Thanks!

 

[T.R.T.e.s.l.a.]

Group: I took the delivery of my 2023 MY LR yesterday. It is Fremont built and came with HW4 - those red cameras The VIN is 791XXX. So this should give you indication on what to expect if you have your VIN.
Having said that, I cant say if it is a great thing - I posted on another thread and learnt that HW4 has no Park Assist at all, at the moment... that sucks big time.

Ahhh great!

So, are you the first one? Who, in here, was the first to get a MY with HW4?
Post it up there too.

 

[AbraDabra007]

Great news! Enjoy your new car

Is there a way other than looking at red tint camera (like anything on config display etc where it shows “Full Self Driving Computer”) if it’s HW4 ?

Could try to take a pic of “service mode” otherwise - that uncovers a lot of info not easily otherwise accessible
Thanks!

Thanks! Still new to the car so I will figure out and post.
BTW, there were other deliveries (different colors and configs) around same time and all of them HW4. SAs were saying the majority of Y deliveries they getting now are on HW4

 

[AbraDabra007]

Ahhh great!

So, are you the first one? Who, in here, was the first to get a MY with HW4?
Post it up there too.

Thanks. Not the first one to get, but perhaps first one here to post/admit I suppose
I have posted on other thread too.

 

[AJ..]

Ah, that's interesting to know about the radar removal. Thanks for this info. I'd still be curious to see details on Model Y footage, but I agree it's likely the same. Thanks again.

Ok now -

?!?? wtf… hope this is not from S/X!

 

[crappytree]

So Fremont builds are all 4.0 at this point? I might switch to LR for that. I'm also not so sure about the 4680 battery form factor

I missed out on 3.0 with my M3 by a few weeks (tax credit was expiring) so don't want that FOMO with my Y

Fremont made Ys are all HW4 now, but Fremont and Austin both make Model Y LR. Only Model Y LR 7 seats and MYP are Fremont exclusive.

 

[jason29252]

Ok now -

?!?? wtf… hope this is not from S/X!

He has no credibility. Would not trust his videos.

 

[bin/etc]

Group: I took the delivery of my 2023 MY LR yesterday. It is Fremont built and came with HW4 - those red cameras The VIN is 791XXX. So this should give you indication on what to expect if you have your VIN.
Having said that, I cant say if it is a great thing - I posted on another thread and learnt that HW4 has no Park Assist at all, at the moment... that sucks big time.

Thanks for this!

I can park... it's driving in heavy rain or snow that worries me

Subtracting noise from an image is hella complicated... for example rain and snow in gusting wind is probably not plain and simple gaussian noise. I feel like when VIsion gives up, that radar would be super useful in warning the driver about a stationary/slowing object in their path. This should be possible because even good ole (20th century) radar is far less occluded by rain or snow than vision.

SO... do you know whether you have radar behind the front bumper?

 

[C2023]

Ok now -

?!?? wtf… hope this is not from S/X!

Not 100% sure but I believe it's an X.

 

[jason29252]

It is pretty much guaranteed that the current model Y lsnwith HW4 doesn’t come with radar. The question is whether the harness is there and feasibility of retrofit if needed in the future.