Do you know that you must keep your battery charged?

[JRod0802]

Yup, as long as it's made VERY clear on purchase (and I don't mean buried in the manual). For ICEs oil changes are common knowledge -- EVs are new and much about them is NOT known.

I totally agree with this.

So it's in the manual, clearly, and anybody buying an electric car should read the manual. And if you don't then you are an idiot - plain and simple.

That seems a bit harsh. I'm sure plenty of people who buy their first electric car won't read the manual (maybe between 1% and 5%). Maybe instead of calling them an idiot and moving on, we should just say that for important stuff, they should be verbally informed upon purchase. I'd rather not make that 1% - 5% of people really pi$$ed off at electric cars when a simple education process would fix it.

 

[Lloyd]

I totally agree with this.



That seems a bit harsh. I'm sure plenty of people who buy their first electric car won't read the manual (maybe between 1% and 5%). Maybe instead of calling them an idiot and moving on, we should just say that for important stuff, they should be verbally informed upon purchase. I'd rather not make that 1% - 5% of people really pi$$ed off at electric cars when a simple education process would fix it.

I had a long discussion with some of the guys at Tesla regarding training of new owners. I suggested that due to the amount of systems and concepts to learn that they produce an educational video, and training DVD to be included with each car to teach new owners about operating an EV. I was assured that this was being done.

 

[ElSupreme]

Come on people it isn't like you are going to kill your battery if you forget to charge your car overnight. Or leave it unplugged if you go on a weekend trip. Or if you drive it until it is dead. You will just have to plug your car back in. It isn't hard.

If you leave for a 2 week vacation do you just up and leave? No you hold your newspaper (some of you still get newspapers right?!?), you hold your mail, you get a neighbor to check on your cat, you turn down/up your HVAC, you turn off certain lights, you put other lights on timers, you have to buy your tickets ... Point is remembering to plug in your car is about as easy as remembering to unplug your iron when you leave for somewhere. Odds are your car will be plugged in anyway.

Driving it to the Airport, and on an empty battery and going on a 2+week vacation seems to be the ONLY real world circumstance where this comes up, and is exceedingly rare. It isn't really is not a good idea to start with as you wont be able to drive home. It costs more than a Town Car/Taxi, and really is in the realm of long distance driving that really doesn't suit EVs. The only REAL problem I see is with VERY LONG TERM storage. But I could care less about problems people storing a $60k+ have trying to find reliable a 120VAC outlet, and that they would have to monitor (they could do it remotely) their car once or twice a month.

Again in boils down to NEGLECT! Everything about USING a EV is so much less maintenance/hassle than an ICE. But if you DON'T USE an EV it is slightly more inconvenient.

I need to stop reading this thread ...

 

[domenick]

Post on the brick issue now on AutoblogGreen. Along with the statement from Tesla that has been printed elsewhere it states that the company will address this issue more completely.

To echo others, this has the potential to be a big problem (of perception) if it isn't handled quickly and comprehensively. New York Times has contacted the guy so you know this isn't going away.

Regarding share price, I have to say when I read the original post last night I couldn't help but wonder if the author had shorted the stock (not to cast aspersions, I don't know the guy, I'm just cynical like that.). Anyhow, if you're quick on the buy/sell, there was a chance to make some cash today.

 

[markb1]

This was the most interesting part of the article, to me:

In at least one case, Tesla went even further. The Tesla service manager admitted that, unable to contact an owner by phone, Tesla remotely activated a dying vehicle’s GPS to determine its location and then dispatched Tesla staff to go there. It is not clear if Tesla had obtained this owner’s consent to allow this tracking, or if the owner is even aware that his vehicle had been tracked. Further, the service manager acknowledged that this use of tracking was not something they generally tell customers about.

Is this true? Did they really track the car without the owner's consent and dispatch somebody to charge the car? (With a big generator, presumably, or, did they tow the car somewhere to be charged?) Seem kind of far-fetched to me.

 

[ElSupreme]

This was the most interesting part of the article, to me:

In at least one case, Tesla went even further. The Tesla service manager admitted that, unable to contact an owner by phone, Tesla remotely activated a dying vehicle’s GPS to determine its location and then dispatched Tesla staff to go there. It is not clear if Tesla had obtained this owner’s consent to allow this tracking, or if the owner is even aware that his vehicle had been tracked. Further, the service manager acknowledged that this use of tracking was not something they generally tell customers about.

Is this true? Did they really track the car without the owner's consent and dispatch somebody to charge the car? (With a big generator, presumably, or, did they tow the car somewhere to be charged?) Seem kind of far-fetched to me.

Note to self: "When doing unsavory/illegial things in my Model S make sure to wrap Aluminium foil around GPS antenna, GSM antenna, and/or WiFi antenna.

I really need to stop reading this thread ...

 

[dpeilow]

That seems a bit harsh. I'm sure plenty of people who buy their first electric car won't read the manual (maybe between 1% and 5%). Maybe instead of calling them an idiot and moving on, we should just say that for important stuff, they should be verbally informed upon purchase. I'd rather not make that 1% - 5% of people really pi$$ed off at electric cars when a simple education process would fix it.

Nope. If you buy a 100 grand car using a totally new technology and you don't read up on it and you break it, you're an idiot.

 

[ggr]

I can't speak for others, but prior to taking delivery of my Roadster, I was sent very clear information on battery maintenance. And I was given that same information when I picked up my car. Other forum members should correct me (or confirm), but I believe that the car will shut itself down PRIOR to reaching zero SOC, to protect the battery and give you time to get it plugged in.

(And, uhhh, it's more likely that I'd run out of oil. -red face- I HATE checking the oil.)

A case in point: my wife takes her car regularly to a cheapo oil-change place. One day I came home and slipped on the floor of the garage... they had failed to tighten the drain plug. And I've accidentally filled my gas car with diesel in the past... very expensive, but an easy mistake to make.

 

[dsm363]

Even if, it's far more likely to deplete the battery in an ev than run out of oil. Every trip you run the risk of battery depletion if you reach your destination and have no where to plug in.

Again, it's an issue yes, but my main gripe is that Tesla doesn't seem to be making this very clear to folks.

You can run out of oil and not even know it. My mom's minivan back in the day had some cheap plastic part fall off in the oil bed and block the flow of oil to the engine. The car said it was happy and full of oil but the engine basically melted. Got that sweet V4 upgraded to a V6 dropping the 0-60 time from 16 seconds to maybe 10 so all in all a good thing.:smile:

If you plan your trips, it shouldn't really happen. Even then you could pull over when you're basically at zero and call a flatbed tow truck. It might cost you some money but they could take you to the nearest 110V outlet in an emergency. Or if you can plan ahead, pull someplace with a 110V and charge for a few hours to at least get your batter back out of the red.

 

[smorgasbord]

Did they really track the car without the owner's consent and dispatch somebody to charge the car?

As the owner of the car, you can turn the tracking feature on or off - I think it's under GSM in the settings menu. I have nothing to hide and believe that Tesla can use this feature to recover a stolen car.

 

[dsm363]

I had a long discussion with some of the guys at Tesla regarding training of new owners. I suggested that due to the amount of systems and concepts to learn that they produce an educaional video, and training DVD to be included with each car to teach new owners about operating an EV. I was assured that this was being done.

They should also have some customer service person e-mail each new owner and ask if they can call after one month of ownership. They can ask how things are, how they like the car, what suggestions they have and then take that opportunity to reinforce how important it is to keep the battery charged and that ruining the battery in that manner is not covered under warranty. The battery issue should be addressed when they first get the car as well.

 

[tomsax]

In January of 2010, we were away from home and left our Roadster sitting for 26 days. Before we left, I put the Roadster in Storage Mode and plugged it in.

While we were gone, the temperatures dropped down into the 20's. (We were glad to be in Hawaii.) I'm sure our garage stayed above freezing due to waste heat from the furnace keeping the house at minimum temp.

The Roadster was at 68% when we left and at 55% (range mode, so relative to full usable battery capacity) when we returned. That's a nice even 0.5% loss per day. This means I could drive the Roadster down to 50%, and leave it sitting for nearly 80 days and still be above 10%.

In a hot environment, where the car might need to actively cool the battery pack, being plugged in is more of a concern.

The logs showed that the car never charged. This was confirmed by our wall meter not moving (less than 0.1 kWh). Also according to the logs, the battery pack temperature stayed within the range of 55 to 62 degrees Fahrenheit.

In moderate weather this is a total non-issue. Even in extreme weather, the owner just needs to follow the directions and plug it in.

Gas cars have similar vulnerabilities, they are just more familiar.

 

[ChadS]

Another "similar" error: forgetting to get a new timing belt on schedule for a car with an interference engine. I have met some people that made that very expensive (and also passive) mistake...

I don't think the requirement to plug the car in when it's drained for long periods of time is too onerous. But I do think Tesla could have a major perception issue if they don't get out in front of this (remember how far the Volt non-fires went?). I think the manual is already pretty clear, but sales people could bring it up on delivery, service people could bring it up periodically, and Tesla could announce new "system shut-down software" (with few details) when the battery gets low.

 

[HawaNY]

Does this provide a rational after all for having some solar cells on the roof? Doesn't fix being unplugged in a covered garage of course, but could it eliminate the concern if it was left outside for a long time by providing enough trickle charge to keep the battery alive?

 

[dsm363]

It's amazing how much trouble one 'blogger' can cause these days.

 

[AnOutsider]

Come on people it isn't like you are going to kill your battery if you forget to charge your car overnight. Or leave it unplugged if you go on a weekend trip. Or if you drive it until it is dead. You will just have to plug your car back in. It isn't hard.

If you leave for a 2 week vacation do you just up and leave? No you hold your newspaper (some of you still get newspapers right?!?), you hold your mail, you get a neighbor to check on your cat, you turn down/up your HVAC, you turn off certain lights, you put other lights on timers, you have to buy your tickets ... Point is remembering to plug in your car is about as easy as remembering to unplug your iron when you leave for somewhere. Odds are your car will be plugged in anyway.

I don't think anyone disagrees it's not a huge catastrophic thing, I think the consensus is just that people need to be aware of what CAN happen. I don't think many were prior to this.

Possibly a bad analogy, but if your cell phone could explode if you left it plugged in for days on end (hasn't something similar happened, but from overheating?) it would be really rare, but in general, you'd like to know that you shouldn't leave it plugged in once topped off. Once that becomes common knowledge, then it isn't an issue -- it's common sense.

*edit* a LOT of first time posters in this thread. Either this has sparked a lot of awareness and led people to research or we haz trollz!

 

[ElSupreme]

It's amazing how much trouble one 'blogger' can cause these days.

Imagine what havoc ETC Green could have caused!! :scared:

 

[smorgasbord]

It's amazing how much trouble one 'blogger' can cause these days.

I'm looking forward to another TSLA stock buying opportunity.

 

[JRod0802]

Nope. If you buy a 100 grand car using a totally new technology and you don't read up on it and you break it, you're an idiot.

I said "electric car", not "Tesla Roadster".

The majority of cars being sold will be electric by 2030. Not everyone will read the manual. Are you saying the best way to handle the situation is to do nothing, and then point and laugh when someone screws up their car?

Wouldn't you rather help?

I like Lloyd's idea of an educational video for all of the new buyers.

---

Having read much of this thread, it seems to me that two things have to happen for someone to actually ruin their battery:

1) Don't know that leaving the battery at 0% charge for weeks is bad
2) Actually leave their car at 0% charge for weeks

I see some people here saying that almost no one will actually leave their car at 0% charge for weeks, so this is moot. But some people (for what ever reason) will. I see some people here saying that not knowing that leaving the battery at 0% charge for weeks is bad makes you an idiot. But some people will trust that the instructions they receive from the dealer will be enough to be able to buy a car without reading the manual.

Even though the actual number of people who get completely screwed an mess up their EV will be low, it won't be zero. Let's not call them idiots. Let's not say that their numbers are too low to matter. Let's help.

 

[strider]

That seems a bit harsh. I'm sure plenty of people who buy their first electric car won't read the manual (maybe between 1% and 5%). Maybe instead of calling them an idiot and moving on, we should just say that for important stuff, they should be verbally informed upon purchase. I'd rather not make that 1% - 5% of people really pi$$ed off at electric cars when a simple education process would fix it.

When I bought my Roadster I WAS clearly informed that I needed to keep the car plugged in at all times. My concern is about people buying the car used.

You would think it would trivial for Tesla to shut everything down once the battery hit a certain level of charge - leave enough juice in there to keep the batteries from dying and make it so that you have to have the vehicle towed or a Ranger show up and connect to the diag port to wake it up and start charging. This just can't be that hard. Tesla's "response" on Jalopnik was terrible IMO.