Done with Tesla

[Pruitt]

I have been an ardent supporter of Tesla (though not an excuse-all fanboi) since before I first ordered a Model S in 2014.

Tesla has ended that yesterday.

The driver's side door handle on my 2016 S90D failed in mid-May. I made an appointment with Loveland SC to get it repaired June 6. The asked me to approve the estimate on the app, and when I tried to do so they instead asked for credit card information (to be transmitted over the phone). As I was the victim of credit card fraud a few years ago, I will not do that.

Two days before the service appointment I was contacted via messaging in the app, asking me to review and approve the estimate. I told them I couldn't and explained why. I said I would pay when I brought the car in for work, as I always have. They said "Understood, than you for letting us know!"

The next day I was contacted by someone in the service department (by phone - I actually talked to a person!), offering to convert the service call to a mobile service appointment at my house. I was hoping for this, as they had done the same thing in July 2023 to replace my charge port. I eagerly accepted, even though that meant an almost three-week delay.
Today the service tech shows up and refused to repair the door! I was told I would have to enter my credit card info through the app or he would leave. So he left without doing the repair.

Last year this was not a problem.

1. I was not informed that the rules had changed.
2. I was not informed that changing the appointment to a mobile service call would require me to input that info. IF they had, I would have kept the original 6 June appointment in Loveland.

I now have a new appointment and will take the car to Loveland July 19. I will never again attempt to use mobile service (unless something makes the car undriveable). However...

Over the last few months I have been seriously considering purchasing a new model S or X. No longer. I have heard about Tesla's occasional "screw the customer" attitude; today I experienced it first hand. I will NOT buy another Tesla.

It's amazing how much a company can change in six short years.

 

[whisperingshad]

Were you going to pay cash? Else you can put your CC in via app or online rather than over the phone...

 

[zoomer0056]

I have been an ardent supporter of Tesla (though not an excuse-all fanboi) since before I first ordered a Model S in 2014.

Tesla has ended that yesterday.

The driver's side door handle on my 2016 S90D failed in mid-May. I made an appointment with Loveland SC to get it repaired June 6. The asked me to approve the estimate on the app, and when I tried to do so they instead asked for credit card information (to be transmitted over the phone). As I was the victim of credit card fraud a few years ago, I will not do that.

Two days before the service appointment I was contacted via messaging in the app, asking me to review and approve the estimate. I told them I couldn't and explained why. I said I would pay when I brought the car in for work, as I always have. They said "Understood, than you for letting us know!"

The next day I was contacted by someone in the service department (by phone - I actually talked to a person!), offering to convert the service call to a mobile service appointment at my house. I was hoping for this, as they had done the same thing in July 2023 to replace my charge port. I eagerly accepted, even though that meant an almost three-week delay.
Today the service tech shows up and refused to repair the door! I was told I would have to enter my credit card info through the app or he would leave. So he left without doing the repair.

Last year this was not a problem.

1. I was not informed that the rules had changed.
2. I was not informed that changing the appointment to a mobile service call would require me to input that info. IF they had, I would have kept the original 6 June appointment in Loveland.

I now have a new appointment and will take the car to Loveland July 19. I will never again attempt to use mobile service (unless something makes the car undriveable). However...

Over the last few months I have been seriously considering purchasing a new model S or X. No longer. I have heard about Tesla's occasional "screw the customer" attitude; today I experienced it first hand. I will NOT buy another Tesla.

It's amazing how much a company can change in six short years.

I understand the caution for entering credit card info on an app. However, paying cash for anything is only possible in person. I dare say that anyone who has a credit card is at risk. Even if that card is never used, the banks are at risk for thieves to get that type of info.

Just walking out the front door of your home is risky.

One way to protect yourself is to keep a card with a very low limit. Also ensure the bank has triggers in place to stop certain purchases.

Tesla is not the problem here. It seems the title of this thread should be "I'm done with credit cards and thieves. "

 

[HankLloydRight]

Tesla is not the problem here. It seems the title of this thread should be "I'm done with credit cards and thieves. "

Agreed.

I fully understand not providing CC info over the phone to a human, but putting it directly into the app? Seems plenty safe against id theft. This isn't a Tesla problem.

 

[Unclepaul]

Tesla is a cashless company. Elon was raised on PayPal. Taking cash is a huge hassle for a large company. While your fear of Credit Card fraud is real, Tesla has tons of safeguards in place to process your payments descretly.
Tesla will also not take cash for new vehicle purchases. All must be processed electronically.
No online companies will take cash. You need electronic processing for Amazon, Apple, etc.

 

[ScottNY]

Many credit card companies offer a “virtual card.” Once you receive the estimate, you can create a “card” with expiration and security code that will work for that one transaction. After that, the card info is useless. Next time you need to pay, just update the virtual card in the Tesla app. They get paid by credit card, you don’t reveal anything about your real card, and everyone’s happy.

 

[TheLastDon]

I have been an ardent supporter of Tesla (though not an excuse-all fanboi) since before I first ordered a Model S in 2014.

Tesla has ended that yesterday.

The driver's side door handle on my 2016 S90D failed in mid-May. I made an appointment with Loveland SC to get it repaired June 6. The asked me to approve the estimate on the app, and when I tried to do so they instead asked for credit card information (to be transmitted over the phone). As I was the victim of credit card fraud a few years ago, I will not do that.

Two days before the service appointment I was contacted via messaging in the app, asking me to review and approve the estimate. I told them I couldn't and explained why. I said I would pay when I brought the car in for work, as I always have. They said "Understood, than you for letting us know!"

The next day I was contacted by someone in the service department (by phone - I actually talked to a person!), offering to convert the service call to a mobile service appointment at my house. I was hoping for this, as they had done the same thing in July 2023 to replace my charge port. I eagerly accepted, even though that meant an almost three-week delay.
Today the service tech shows up and refused to repair the door! I was told I would have to enter my credit card info through the app or he would leave. So he left without doing the repair.

Last year this was not a problem.

1. I was not informed that the rules had changed.
2. I was not informed that changing the appointment to a mobile service call would require me to input that info. IF they had, I would have kept the original 6 June appointment in Loveland.

I now have a new appointment and will take the car to Loveland July 19. I will never again attempt to use mobile service (unless something makes the car undriveable). However...

Over the last few months I have been seriously considering purchasing a new model S or X. No longer. I have heard about Tesla's occasional "screw the customer" attitude; today I experienced it first hand. I will NOT buy another Tesla.

It's amazing how much a company can change in six short years.

Why didn't you just put the CC info on the app? Credit cards have fraud protection if you notice bad charges.

 

[ewoodrick]

I have been an ardent supporter of Tesla (though not an excuse-all fanboi) since before I first ordered a Model S in 2014.

Tesla has ended that yesterday.

The driver's side door handle on my 2016 S90D failed in mid-May. I made an appointment with Loveland SC to get it repaired June 6. The asked me to approve the estimate on the app, and when I tried to do so they instead asked for credit card information (to be transmitted over the phone). As I was the victim of credit card fraud a few years ago, I will not do that.

Two days before the service appointment I was contacted via messaging in the app, asking me to review and approve the estimate. I told them I couldn't and explained why. I said I would pay when I brought the car in for work, as I always have. They said "Understood, than you for letting us know!"

The next day I was contacted by someone in the service department (by phone - I actually talked to a person!), offering to convert the service call to a mobile service appointment at my house. I was hoping for this, as they had done the same thing in July 2023 to replace my charge port. I eagerly accepted, even though that meant an almost three-week delay.
Today the service tech shows up and refused to repair the door! I was told I would have to enter my credit card info through the app or he would leave. So he left without doing the repair.

Last year this was not a problem.

1. I was not informed that the rules had changed.
2. I was not informed that changing the appointment to a mobile service call would require me to input that info. IF they had, I would have kept the original 6 June appointment in Loveland.

I now have a new appointment and will take the car to Loveland July 19. I will never again attempt to use mobile service (unless something makes the car undriveable). However...

Over the last few months I have been seriously considering purchasing a new model S or X. No longer. I have heard about Tesla's occasional "screw the customer" attitude; today I experienced it first hand. I will NOT buy another Tesla.

It's amazing how much a company can change in six short years.

Pontificating the obvious​

Welcome to the 21st century. Existing without a credit card is nearly impossible to do.

Get a credit card that protects you from credit card fraud. I hope that you weren't' using a debit card.

I've had attempts on my card I've had actual purchases on my card and every time my Credit Card company handled it.

 

[MontyFloyd]

As I was the victim of credit card fraud a few years ago, I will not do that.
...

Can you elaborate on severity? As others have stated this is more a CC issue than Tesla, and others have offered ways to increase your ID safety.

 

[GHammer]

I have been an ardent supporter of Tesla (though not an excuse-all fanboi) since before I first ordered a Model S in 2014.

Tesla has ended that yesterday.

The driver's side door handle on my 2016 S90D failed in mid-May. I made an appointment with Loveland SC to get it repaired June 6. The asked me to approve the estimate on the app, and when I tried to do so they instead asked for credit card information (to be transmitted over the phone). As I was the victim of credit card fraud a few years ago, I will not do that.

Two days before the service appointment I was contacted via messaging in the app, asking me to review and approve the estimate. I told them I couldn't and explained why. I said I would pay when I brought the car in for work, as I always have. They said "Understood, than you for letting us know!"

The next day I was contacted by someone in the service department (by phone - I actually talked to a person!), offering to convert the service call to a mobile service appointment at my house. I was hoping for this, as they had done the same thing in July 2023 to replace my charge port. I eagerly accepted, even though that meant an almost three-week delay.
Today the service tech shows up and refused to repair the door! I was told I would have to enter my credit card info through the app or he would leave. So he left without doing the repair.

Last year this was not a problem.

1. I was not informed that the rules had changed.
2. I was not informed that changing the appointment to a mobile service call would require me to input that info. IF they had, I would have kept the original 6 June appointment in Loveland.

I now have a new appointment and will take the car to Loveland July 19. I will never again attempt to use mobile service (unless something makes the car undriveable). However...

Over the last few months I have been seriously considering purchasing a new model S or X. No longer. I have heard about Tesla's occasional "screw the customer" attitude; today I experienced it first hand. I will NOT buy another Tesla.

It's amazing how much a company can change in six short years.

I don't understand. You were going to try to pay the tech in cash? There is zero difference in inputting a credit card to the app and giving a credit card to the tech.

 

[gsmith123]

If you’re aren’t willing to enter your CC in app I don’t think you can use Supercharger.

And the vast majority of third party chargers require a credit card.

How have you owned an EV for 10 years? No road trips ever?

I can’t imagine owning an EV and not using a credit card for charging. That’s truly car ownership on hard mode

 

[WyoDude]

Wyoming: land of the free and cash only

 

[icycool]

Yeah, this story sounds fishy.
It is almost impossible to exist this days without having your credit card number out there.
And I agree, this is not a Tesla problem but a personal issue.

 

[popgodazipa]

OP is just here for the clicks. If it looks, acts and quacks like a duck then it's either Daffy or Donald.

 

[sublimejackman]

I have been an ardent supporter of Tesla (though not an excuse-all fanboi) since before I first ordered a Model S in 2014.

Tesla has ended that yesterday.

The driver's side door handle on my 2016 S90D failed in mid-May. I made an appointment with Loveland SC to get it repaired June 6. The asked me to approve the estimate on the app, and when I tried to do so they instead asked for credit card information (to be transmitted over the phone). As I was the victim of credit card fraud a few years ago, I will not do that.

Two days before the service appointment I was contacted via messaging in the app, asking me to review and approve the estimate. I told them I couldn't and explained why. I said I would pay when I brought the car in for work, as I always have. They said "Understood, than you for letting us know!"

The next day I was contacted by someone in the service department (by phone - I actually talked to a person!), offering to convert the service call to a mobile service appointment at my house. I was hoping for this, as they had done the same thing in July 2023 to replace my charge port. I eagerly accepted, even though that meant an almost three-week delay.
Today the service tech shows up and refused to repair the door! I was told I would have to enter my credit card info through the app or he would leave. So he left without doing the repair.

Last year this was not a problem.

1. I was not informed that the rules had changed.
2. I was not informed that changing the appointment to a mobile service call would require me to input that info. IF they had, I would have kept the original 6 June appointment in Loveland.

I now have a new appointment and will take the car to Loveland July 19. I will never again attempt to use mobile service (unless something makes the car undriveable). However...

Over the last few months I have been seriously considering purchasing a new model S or X. No longer. I have heard about Tesla's occasional "screw the customer" attitude; today I experienced it first hand. I will NOT buy another Tesla.

It's amazing how much a company can change in six short years.

I too am tired of Tesla and their customer last, automation first attitude. Kinda impressed that you were able to get a human on the phone. I will never use Tesla service again (other than a warranty battery replacement). That all being said, why not just make a privacy.com card? They're free. It's what I use with Tesla and is way more secure than carrying large amounts of cash or a regular debit card.

 

[GatorMeat]

how do you supercharge without a CC on your account?
get with the present, CC are how we transact.
if someone gets your CC illegally, they will remove any charges.
you are being unnecessarily difficult

 

[Pruitt]

Lots of good responses folks. Thanks very much!

To address a few of the comments...

• I did not know about the virtual card trick. A variation I just learned about is that apparently I can go to Target and many other stores (including plain old grocery stores) and buy a card for single use, with whatever valuation I want. I would have done that if I'd known Tesla would insist I use the app for the mobile visit. Maybe I've lived under a rock all this time.
  
  
• The problem isn't providing my card information for the work; it's providing it over a cell phone network. Those are not particularly secure. There was no indication I could input it through my Tesla account via my computer. No one mentioned that possibility. If they had, I would have done that.
  
  
• I do have a credit card (one), and I use it online. I do NOT use it on my cell. I have a PayPal account, which has my card info, of course. If PayPal was an option, I would have used that without hesitation.
  
  
• It is NOT the same regardless of whether I input the card or the tech scans the card. If I do it and the information somehow gets out, it becomes a difficult question as to where the leak occurred. Somewhere between me and Tesla, or after Tesla received the info? If Tesla scanned it, then ipso facto it was after Tesla obtained the info. Much easier to determine responsibility (maybe why Telsa won't allow their techs to scan the cards).
  
  
• Sorry if the story sounds fishy. It's not. Conspiracy theorist?
  
  
• I'm not just here for the clicks. I've been a member of this forum for ten years tomorrow. With this response I'll have, I think, 572 posts in that time. If I were posting for clicks I'd have a lot more posts than that. The person who made that comment has been here for only four years and has more than half as many posts as I do. Who's here for the clicks?
  
  
• More details on the CC fraud: Some years ago I was travelling (driving) from one job to another, from Toronto ON to Manhattan Beach CA. I had a CC I used only for business expenses. High limit (for the time), low balance. Somewhere in Missouri I fueled up and the card was declined, with a request I call. I paid for the gas on a personal card with a small limit and called. The card processor's automated system noticed an odd charging pattern. I had all my gas stops, interspersed with purchases, some large ones, in Toronto. I told them the Toronto charges were bogus, and as a precaution they blocked the card from use (as they should have). In the middle of the country I suddenly had access to very limited funds. Not pleasant.

Investigation showed someone in Toronto intercepted my card info and was using it to make purchases. Without going into too much detail, it turned out the card info leak was actually the CC company's fault, so I didn't have to pay for any of the fraudulent charges, but I had little access to funds until things were resolved. I had to call family and borrow money to make it to my destination.​

• Had it been acceptable, I certainly would have paid the tech in cash. Not allowed. He told me my only option was to put my card info into Tesla's system via the app.
  
  
• I have free supercharging for life. I don't need to have a CC on file to supercharge.
  
  
• Finally, as should be clear to those who actually read my original post, I have a credit card. On the advice of CC companies, I'm just very careful how I transit it's information to a vendor.

Conclusion:

My frustration comes from two things. First, the SC knew I would not put my card into the app (and they told me that was fine), but they scheduled me for a service appointment that required exactly that action anyway, and did not tell me I would have to input the card through the app for that call. Second, not using the app to enter payment info was fine last year, and they did not alert me through any means that their rules had changed. The attitude I got was "we don't care about what we told you last week or last year, do it how we tell you now or you can pound sand." That sort of customer-be-damned attitude may be fine to most folks, but not to me.

My 2016 S is by far the best car I have ever owned. It will probably always be that way. But I will not purchase a product from a company (any company) with such a cavalier attitude towards their customers. It the same sort of disregard as the nerf-the-charge-rate-and-tell-the-customers-nothing debacle of several years ago was. I thought they'd improved that; apparently I was premature in that assessment.

Sorry so long.

 

[gsmith123]

The problem isn't providing my card information for the work; it's providing it over a cell phone network. Those are not particularly secure.

Bad news: you're correct, networks are not inherently secure.

Good news: no well built e-commerce system relies on your internet connection being secure. Credit card data is all encrypted in transit and it's designed to facilitate secure transactions over insecure networks.

There's no good reason you should put more trust in your ISP over a cell service provider, btw. If you think you're being more secure only transmitting your CC over your home internet you're not getting the benefit you think. Somehow I doubt I'll change your mind - but you've got a lot of off-base notions about the risks and attack vectors involved.

Putting aside the faulty motivation, since you do use your CC online you could have just entered your CC in app from your phone while on your home wifi and avoided this whole situation.

It is NOT the same regardless of whether I input the card or the tech scans the card. If I do it and the information somehow gets out, it becomes a difficult question as to where the leak occurred. Somewhere between me and Tesla, or after Tesla received the info? If Tesla scanned it, then ipso facto it was after Tesla obtained the info. Much easier to determine responsibility (maybe why Telsa won't allow their techs to scan the cards).

No, the vendor (Tesla) is still responsible for the security of entering and transmitting the card info in app. But it's probably a moot point anyway - if you report fraudulent transactions on a card, I don't think the bank performs a sophisticated cybersecurity investigation to track down exactly how it was leaked. That could be impossible.

 

[GHammer]

Lots of good responses folks. Thanks very much!

To address a few of the comments...

• I did not know about the virtual card trick. A variation I just learned about is that apparently I can go to Target and many other stores (including plain old grocery stores) and buy a card for single use, with whatever valuation I want. I would have done that if I'd known Tesla would insist I use the app for the mobile visit. Maybe I've lived under a rock all this time.
  
  
• The problem isn't providing my card information for the work; it's providing it over a cell phone network. Those are not particularly secure. There was no indication I could input it through my Tesla account via my computer. No one mentioned that possibility. If they had, I would have done that.
  
  
• I do have a credit card (one), and I use it online. I do NOT use it on my cell. I have a PayPal account, which has my card info, of course. If PayPal was an option, I would have used that without hesitation.
  
  
• It is NOT the same regardless of whether I input the card or the tech scans the card. If I do it and the information somehow gets out, it becomes a difficult question as to where the leak occurred. Somewhere between me and Tesla, or after Tesla received the info? If Tesla scanned it, then ipso facto it was after Tesla obtained the info. Much easier to determine responsibility (maybe why Telsa won't allow their techs to scan the cards).
  
  
• Sorry if the story sounds fishy. It's not. Conspiracy theorist?
  
  
• I'm not just here for the clicks. I've been a member of this forum for ten years tomorrow. With this response I'll have, I think, 572 posts in that time. If I were posting for clicks I'd have a lot more posts than that. The person who made that comment has been here for only four years and has more than half as many posts as I do. Who's here for the clicks?
  
  
• More details on the CC fraud: Some years ago I was travelling (driving) from one job to another, from Toronto ON to Manhattan Beach CA. I had a CC I used only for business expenses. High limit (for the time), low balance. Somewhere in Missouri I fueled up and the card was declined, with a request I call. I paid for the gas on a personal card with a small limit and called. The card processor's automated system noticed an odd charging pattern. I had all my gas stops, interspersed with purchases, some large ones, in Toronto. I told them the Toronto charges were bogus, and as a precaution they blocked the card from use (as they should have). In the middle of the country I suddenly had access to very limited funds. Not pleasant.

Investigation showed someone in Toronto intercepted my card info and was using it to make purchases. Without going into too much detail, it turned out the card info leak was actually the CC company's fault, so I didn't have to pay for any of the fraudulent charges, but I had little access to funds until things were resolved. I had to call family and borrow money to make it to my destination.​

• Had it been acceptable, I certainly would have paid the tech in cash. Not allowed. He told me my only option was to put my card info into Tesla's system via the app.
  
  
• I have free supercharging for life. I don't need to have a CC on file to supercharge.
  
  
• Finally, as should be clear to those who actually read my original post, I have a credit card. On the advice of CC companies, I'm just very careful how I transit it's information to a vendor.

Conclusion:

My frustration comes from two things. First, the SC knew I would not put my card into the app (and they told me that was fine), but they scheduled me for a service appointment that required exactly that action anyway, and did not tell me I would have to input the card through the app for that call. Second, not using the app to enter payment info was fine last year, and they did not alert me through any means that their rules had changed. The attitude I got was "we don't care about what we told you last week or last year, do it how we tell you now or you can pound sand." That sort of customer-be-damned attitude may be fine to most folks, but not to me.

My 2016 S is by far the best car I have ever owned. It will probably always be that way. But I will not purchase a product from a company (any company) with such a cavalier attitude towards their customers. It the same sort of disregard as the nerf-the-charge-rate-and-tell-the-customers-nothing debacle of several years ago was. I thought they'd improved that; apparently I was premature in that assessment.

Sorry so long.

You are under a number of misapprehensions a couple of which gsmith pointed out. I can think of a bunch of reasons to break up with Tesla but this sure isn't one of them. You're making a mountain out of a mole hill.

 

[Pruitt]

Bad news: you're correct, networks are not inherently secure.

Good news: no well built e-commerce system relies on your internet connection being secure. Credit card data is all encrypted in transit and it's designed to facilitate secure transactions over insecure networks.

There's no good reason you should put more trust in your ISP over a cell service provider, btw. If you think you're being more secure only transmitting your CC over your home internet you're not getting the benefit you think. Somehow I doubt I'll change your mind - but you've got a lot of off-base notions about the risks and attack vectors involved.

Putting aside the faulty motivation, since you do use your CC online you could have just entered your CC in app from your phone while on your home wifi and avoided this whole situation.



No, the vendor (Tesla) is still responsible for the security of entering and transmitting the card info in app. But it's probably a moot point anyway - if you report fraudulent transactions on a card, I don't think the bank performs a sophisticated cybersecurity investigation to track down exactly how it was leaked. That could be impossible.

Good points. I do not put more trust in my ISP than I do in the cell service provider. I put more trust in the fact that a potential eavesdropper has to be within a couple hundred feet of my router to intercept the wifi signal, but can be within a mile and a bit more of my cell phone to intercept it. Lots more interception range on a cell phone. Plus, web browsers provide a clear indication that data is being encrypted. The Tesla mobile app does not.

I agree that the vendor is still responsible, but it's a much muddier situation if I enter the data in the app. Potential arguments for the leak being my fault: "He used the app improperly, resulting in the leak." "He had the app settings incorrect, allowing the leak." "His phone settings were wrong, making the information transmit unencrypted." Maybe all demonstrably false, but all would have to be shown to be so to get them fully discounted. That takes time, which in the legal world means MUCH money spent. Alternative: "I gave Tesla the card and they scanned it into their system." No viable argument that it was my missteps that caused the breach (unless you argue that giving Tesla my card to charge it was my fault, and that wouldn't help in a case of credit card fraud).

Were the odds of having my card data intercepted high? No. But it was much higher if I put the data into a app where it could be intercepted. Do I think the data is encrypted in the app? Of course, but that's really a supposition on my (our) part(s). I could find nothing in the app that explained any encryption it might use (maybe I missed it; if so, where is it?). On-line sites where I have input that information also have ~simple explanations about the encryption used.

In any case, to repeat: Tesla agreed that I did not have to use the app to provide payment, then demanded exactly that after I waited nearly three weeks for them show up and do the work, and I was told there was no alternative. If there was, like entering the card info into my Tesla account on a computer, that should have been mentioned.

To paraphrase an old saying, "Just because I'm paranoid doesn't mean someone isn't out to steal my data."

I understand this isn't much of an issue for most folks. But to me, a "screw you" attitude from a company where I've dropped a hundred grand on their products is an issue. They need to earn my patronage with every interaction.