Double vision (ghosting) at night through windshield?

[Colby Boles]

Agreed. The driver comes first! This, the reflection of the dash grillework on to the windshield, and other issues with blocking of acceleration make me feel like they really wished there was no driver in the car at all. Form has dominated over functionality in several aspects of this vehicle and I find myself asking "did anyone actually drive this before finalizing the design?". Particularly because most of the issues were immediately apparent once I drove away from the factory.

The windshield issue is the #1 Model X issue right now. There is nothing more important than your vision when you drive. That is why we are concerned on the answers we are getting when we ask about this.

 

[Colby Boles]

The double images are further from the source (and more distracting) at a distance, but I can still see double images as close as 10 feet away.

Yes - the images are spread by a small fixed angle. Objects further away appear smaller, so the images spread to greater than an object diameter apart and appear as distinct images. When an object is closer the spread is just a fraction of the object size and appears just as a slight blur. Also, the secondary and tertiary images are of much lesser brightness than the original. In a dark field with good image spread they are all easily seen. Closer in, during daytime, or with lots of background light they become hard to discern. The effect is always there, day or night, and constant in angle and relative magnitude - it's just our perception of what's happening that changes.

 

[Colby Boles]

I just checked with a line laser and even though I was able to reproduce the multiple images it was difficult to show easily and it dawned on me why the laser is a bad choice. Although the laser is a good point source in some sense, the collimation means that most of the light it confined to a very narrow solid angle. This means that you need to get very close to being inline with the beam before you can see the effect clearly. Once you are inline with the beam it is very hard to get any camera to control exposure properly and not saturate around the beam spot.

Once it is nighttime here in my workshop I will use a single LED with a much wider beam spread and I think the effect will be much more obvious and easier to photograph.

IMG_3835

• Colby Boles
• Jul 25, 2016

Laser ghost images

 

[EV-lutioin]

I just checked with a line laser and even though I was able to reproduce the multiple images it was difficult to show easily and it dawned on me why the laser is a bad choice. Although the laser is a good point source in some sense, the collimation means that most of the light it confined to a very narrow solid angle. This means that you need to get very close to being inline with the beam before you can see the effect clearly. Once you are inline with the beam it is very hard to get any camera to control exposure properly and not saturate around the beam spot.

Once it is nighttime here in my workshop I will use a single LED with a much wider beam spread and I think the effect will be much more obvious and easier to photograph.

IMG_3835

• Colby Boles
• Jul 25, 2016

Laser ghost images

Is the photo from inside the car behind the windshield? If so, I can clearly see the triple image of the laser (directly above the beam origin). This could be the perfect way for Tesla to test each windshield this way before installing them. When I asked my service center rep why they did not test my replacement windshield before (or after) installing it, he said, "We all leave at 6pm, so there is no way to test it at night".

 

[proven]

Not long after we got our car in March I read on here about the double vision issues. So I checked again while driving at night and saw the ghosting for myself. It didn't seem like much of an issue, but I thought I'd see how things went. It's now four months later and I've only noticed it one other time than when I actively looked for it the first time. Maybe not all windshields have it as bad as others?

 

[vandacca]

After having the X for over a week and driving it at night a number of times, I can say that my ghosting issue is fairly minimal. I only appear to have 1 ghost slightly above the main source of light. So, yes, the issue is varies in severity from perfect to serious, and everything in between.

It also depends on your eyesight. Some people may have less than perfect eyesight that either makes the ghosting irrelevant, or they see ghosting all the time, so they're used to it.

 

[EV-lutioin]

Here is a a video my son and I took last night showing how bad the ghosting is in my Model X. I know there are some ghosting doubters out there, but this video shows just how bad it can be. I don't think anyone would be okay with this driving experience.

 

[vandacca]

At this point, I don't think there are any "ghosting" doubters out there. Worse case, there may be some that doubt ghosting is a safety issue.

Watching that video made me think that someone should create a "Model-X Ghosting" effect for Final Cut Pro and Adobe Premiere.

 

[proven]

Here is a a video my son and I took last night showing how bad the ghosting is in my Model X. I know there are some ghosting doubters out there, but this video shows just how bad it can be. I don't think anyone would be okay with this driving experience.

That's much worse than ours. I would be frustrated with that.

 

[Roentgen]

I agree that looks bad. Are you zooming in on some of those videos though? That would magnify (pun intended)/exaggerate the problem. Although this is the best representation of the problem, I don't quite think it's the fairest if mag is used. 1X with a portion of the dash visible would be the fairest representation of the problem.

Like people have described above, the ghosting shows the widest dispersion with distant lights, and becomes less apparent with nearby lights. (I've posted before that I think the gap distance of ghosting may be the same, just less apparent as closer lights are bigger, and therefore the gap less apparent with closer/larger lights).

Here is a a video my son and I took last night showing how bad the ghosting is in my Model X. I know there are some ghosting doubters out there, but this video shows just how bad it can be. I don't think anyone would be okay with this driving experience.

 

[EV-lutioin]

I agree that looks bad. Are you zooming in on some of those videos though? That would magnify (pun intended)/exaggerate the problem. Although this is the best representation of the problem, I don't quite think it's the fairest if mag is used. 1X with a portion of the dash visible would be the fairest representation of the problem.

Like people have described above, the ghosting shows the widest dispersion with distant lights, and becomes less apparent with nearby lights. (I've posted before that I think the gap distance of ghosting may be the same, just less apparent as closer lights are bigger, and therefore the gap less apparent with closer/larger lights).

We tried very hard to get an accurate representation of the effect, but in the end we found that we were not able to show how bad it really is. In other words, the ghosting in the video is not as bad as it is in person, it's actually much worse if you are experiencing it as a driver or passenger. The camera gives a less pronounced image because the lens is only able to capture a few lights at a time, whereas the human eye can see dozens of lights/signs/reflectors at a time making it much worse (the human eye is pretty amazing!). I agree that the double images appear further from the source as distance increases; you can see that occurring in the video, as the cars get closer to the Model X, the double images converge on the light source. You can try a wide angle lens and see how it works for you, but I not sure it would represent the experience very well. The more videos of this effect the better, since apparently many Tesla Service Center staff still don't know about it.

 

[P90D]

Here is a a video my son and I took last night showing how bad the ghosting is in my Model X. I know there are some ghosting doubters out there, but this video shows just how bad it can be. I don't think anyone would be okay with this driving experience.

That video shows the problem thought it's far worse than I've experienced in our X. Even when I draw it to the attention of passengers they take some time to agree they're seeing something. My eagle-eyed daughter from the back seat noticed it without me suggesting anything. I don't see it as a safety hazard, it's simply not good enough for a modern car to not have optically clear windshield glass! : )

 

[electricity]

Here is a a video my son and I took last night showing how bad the ghosting is in my Model X. I know there are some ghosting doubters out there, but this video shows just how bad it can be. I don't think anyone would be okay with this driving experience.

very cool looks like a music video! Thats how my ghosting looks, maybe not as bad but close. Im starting to learn to not look at it. At first i refused to even drive at night now I gave up and do it from time to time.

 

[ccutrer]

Here is a a video my son and I took last night showing how bad the ghosting is in my Model X. I know there are some ghosting doubters out there, but this video shows just how bad it can be. I don't think anyone would be okay with this driving experience.

Yeah that's pretty much one mine looks like. If I try not to think about it I don't notice as much.

 

[Scmbug]

Would this help while we wait for a solution?

Amazon.com: Duco? Night-vision Glasses Anti-glare Driving Eyewear Polarized Glasses 6806 (Black, Yellow): Clothing

This looks like an inexpensive option to try until Tesla can figure out a better solution. I'm tempted to order a pair and try them out to see if they have any affect..

 

[EV-lutioin]

I just checked with a line laser and even though I was able to reproduce the multiple images it was difficult to show easily and it dawned on me why the laser is a bad choice. Although the laser is a good point source in some sense, the collimation means that most of the light it confined to a very narrow solid angle. This means that you need to get very close to being inline with the beam before you can see the effect clearly. Once you are inline with the beam it is very hard to get any camera to control exposure properly and not saturate around the beam spot.

Once it is nighttime here in my workshop I will use a single LED with a much wider beam spread and I think the effect will be much more obvious and easier to photograph.

IMG_3835

• Colby Boles
• Jul 25, 2016

Laser ghost images

Have you been able to test your laser on a non-ghosting windshield to see if you can see a difference between the two? I am wondering if we can find a way to test windshields ahead of time using a laser to see if it has ghosting. This would eliminate the current method Tesla seems to be using, which is replace the windshield and hope it works... at least that appears to be what they did in my case.

 

[qadaemon]

Man I thought I was crazy until I found this thread. At night and on cloudy days I get 2-4 repetitions of every bright light in the windshield depending on where they are and how bright. It's better on sunny days but still noticeable on occasion.

We picked up the X about a month ago, and I have had problems with severe headache-inducing eye strain that I've never had before. I'm trying to narrow it down and it seems like it is days I've driven the X. Perhaps coincidental, so I'm taking a week off driving it. I don't need vision-correcting glasses, and my sunglasses aren't polarized. Maybe I'll pick up a pair.

It sounds like it's still a roll of the dice getting the windshield replaced, so I'm not sure what to do other than wait.

 

[Colby Boles]

Man I thought I was crazy until I found this thread. At night and on cloudy days I get 2-4 repetitions of every bright light in the windshield depending on where they are and how bright. It's better on sunny days but still noticeable on occasion.

We picked up the X about a month ago, and I have had problems with severe headache-inducing eye strain that I've never had before. I'm trying to narrow it down and it seems like it is days I've driven the X. Perhaps coincidental, so I'm taking a week off driving it. I don't need vision-correcting glasses, and my sunglasses aren't polarized. Maybe I'll pick up a pair.

It sounds like it's still a roll of the dice getting the windshield replaced, so I'm not sure what to do other than wait.

The polarized glasses definitely help - I normally don't wear them, but I started now to make the X more comfortable to look out of. I think the main reason you hear people complaining about the ghost images at night is that they wear sunglasses during the day, which greatly reduces the problem. I had a tendency to lose sunglasses so I had started buying cheap ones, which have poor optics, which in turn kept me from wearing them much when driving unless the sun was right in my eyes. I broke down and bought some polarized Persol sunglasses (Sunglasses Persol PO 3136S 95/57 BLACK at Amazon Men’s Clothing store:) after trying a friend's - the optics are great!

 

[EV-lutioin]

Man I thought I was crazy until I found this thread. At night and on cloudy days I get 2-4 repetitions of every bright light in the windshield depending on where they are and how bright. It's better on sunny days but still noticeable on occasion.

We picked up the X about a month ago, and I have had problems with severe headache-inducing eye strain that I've never had before. I'm trying to narrow it down and it seems like it is days I've driven the X. Perhaps coincidental, so I'm taking a week off driving it. I don't need vision-correcting glasses, and my sunglasses aren't polarized. Maybe I'll pick up a pair.

It sounds like it's still a roll of the dice getting the windshield replaced, so I'm not sure what to do other than wait.

I am sorry you are having the ghosting problem too. Make sure you contact your nearest service center and let them know. Ask them to reply to your request for service with an email that states they have contacted Tesla and will contact you with a replacement windshield when they solve the problem (or something similar). We need everyone with this problem to let Tesla know, otherwise they will continue to think it is just a few isolated instances. I know there are a lot of us out there with this issue and I suspect more will discover this problem as the nights get longer in fall and winter.

 

[Verysad]

I took delivery on 12/31 - have had my Model X for 3 weeks. At first I thought this was fatigue or age (43) or bad vision, but it's not.

At night, when looking through the front windshield straight ahead, I see two sets of brakelights on cars in front of me - one set low and the other set slightly higher. In other words, this is a high/low effect not left/right, where the lower lights are brighter and the higher lights are dimmer - but still visible. Same is true of headlights if a car is driving towards me.

This has something to do with the windshield slope, glass type or tinting. I am 6'5" so I am probably looking forward towards the top of the windshield. I don't wear glasses or contacts and have great vision.

I have found that if I crouch down about 3 inches and look forward it goes away. This is not only super annoying but a serious safety issue.

Two questions:

1. Has anyone else experienced this?
2. Can it be explained and fixed?

I looked about 50% of the way through this forum but couldn't see this topic posted.

Thanks[/QUOTE